bassaussie

Personally, I love old Fenders, and I've got the basses to prove it!! But I do agree that I think the whole mystique thing has gone too far. Let's be honest - there's some vintage dealers who are making a fortune out of the vintage market place, and they have no problems about driving the prices up on good quality pieces. As the good quality (or, should I say, the more desirable) stuff get's out of reach of the average buyer, then the lesser pieces become focussed upon, and, in turn, their prices go up. What irks me isn't so much people paying larger amounts for a nice late 70s instrument, it's when people go nuts over a piece that's been routed, refinished, and bastardised to death, and is still being labelled as a 60s or early 70s instrument. with a price to match.

I guess a person has to really pinpoint why they want an older instrument. If it's for investment, then playability isn't as much of an issue - it's all about originality, and having as few modifications as possible. But if it's to play, then the buyer has to look at what they're getting for their money, and if there isn't a modern alternative that's going to do the job just as well, or better, for the same, or less, money.

I'd go along with what WOT said. I think if you wanted to apply some sort of general rule, the best way to approach 70s Fenders is that, the later the bass is, the more you'll want to check it out. QC slowly slipped as the 70s progressed, and instrument weight definitely increased.

Now, having said that, it is possible to find a nice instrument from the late 70s, and the weight issue can be two sided - I know people who prefer a heavy instrument, so what I consider a negative point, they consider a positive.

I guess at the end of the day, it's the same old rule - try the instrument, and if it works for you, great.

I voted for the Streamer. I've owned both a Streamer Stage I and a Thumb NT. From a looks point of view, I actually prefer the Thumb, but I always had a problem with neck dive. The Streamer, on the other hand, is really nicely balanced.

I've always been intrigued by the idea of having effects either onboard, or attached on a strap (which was what the original Zoom tried to do), but the thing that always put me off was that I could never figure out how to easily turn the effects on and off while playing at the same time.

So (!!!) my question to you is how would you go about doing that?

Please, this is definitely not meant as a criticism, I'm just curious to know how other people approach this.

[quote name='birdy' post='110435' date='Dec 29 2007, 03:08 AM']Hi Mark, good to hear from you. Drop me a mail or PM me your new eMail address when you get sorted.

I don't think my bass has the chambered body or graphite in the necks - I would be interested to see how that affects the basses. I presume that yours don't either as they are 4 or 5 years old? I gigged for the second time with it tonight and was really impressed at the sound.

Steve[/quote]


Mine definitely don't have those features. I think your's might've been made prior to those changes as well.

I've sent you a PM with my home address.

Hey Steve - I only just saw this post!! Congratulations, that's a cracking looking bass!!! I don't know if you tried to contact me in Ireland about this, but I'm no longer working in Dublin.

Funny enough, the first thing I wanted to ask was this .....

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='109049' date='Dec 24 2007, 06:31 PM']lovely looking axe mate how does it compare to the white metro you had a while back? I thought that was a pretty sweet instrument.[/quote]

.... and your answer is nearly indentical to what I thought when I had that Metro and was comparing it to my NYC Sadowsky basses.


[quote name='birdy' post='109049' date='Dec 24 2007, 07:13 PM']Hi Steve, I still have the white Metro (so glad I didn't sell it) and to be honest there isn't much between them at all which is what I expected as Roger Sadowsky says that the Metros are as good as the NYC basses if you don't want any special features.

The NYC is to my ears slightly growlier maybe because its got a Brazilian Rosewood board whereas the Metro is Moraddo and I think the string spacing is slightly wider and its slightly lighter as well.

Theres not much in it all but I think the NYC has an extra 5% that the Metro doesn't but its really hard to quantify.[/quote]

The Metro seems to be nearly everything that the NYC is, yet I found my NYC basses just had "something" that I couldn't quite put my finger on. I actually wrote it off to the fact that my basses are both maple fingerboards and ash bodies, versus the morado/alder combination of the Metro.

It's strange, because I thought the Metro was a perfect bass - just such a nice bass to play, and yet the NYC basses just seem to be better - 105% perfection, maybe?!!! I dunno, it starts to sound a bit silly when we talk about basses being "perfect", yet I've had both my basses for around 4 or 5 years, and I still love them, and my biggest regret over the last 5 years, as far as bass purchases and sales go, is giving that Metro back to you!!

Can't say exactly what it is, but I'd say it's from the old Eastern bloc. I've done some research on basses originating from there, and it just reminds me of the sorts of instruments I cam to expect from there.

EDIT: Check out this site, you'll see what I mean about the styling

[url="http://www.meatexz.com/cheesyguitars/index.html"]<a href="http://www.meatexz.com/cheesyguitars/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.meatexz.com/cheesyguitars/index.html[/url]</a>

EDIT: HA!! What d'you know?!!! First page I clicked on, and there's the bass!!

[url="http://www.meatexz.com/cheesyguitars/ussr_bass_unknown.html"]http://www.meatexz.com/cheesyguitars/ussr_bass_unknown.html[/url]

He's having a laugh!!!

BIN at £130, which I think is a very good price on one of these. It's collection only.

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Yamaha-BB414-Bass-Guitar_W0QQitemZ190185244924QQihZ009QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Yamaha-BB414-Bass-Gu...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]

[quote name='thumb4bob' post='105033' date='Dec 16 2007, 08:13 PM']Holy Cow!!! That really is all kinds of beutiful. Thank you Jim for giving me my new pc background, ive waited years to see a CT on this forum. Can I just say its more than Claypool that sings Carl's praises, Anthony Jackson and Stanley Clarke being a couple of examples. Also that if this bass only appeals to 0.1 percent of bass players it only shows how little imagination people have and how a shape that isnt a fender or gibson "standard" will scare the pants off those same people. Also Carl gave the world the 6 string bass and the picollo bass so regardless of what people may think about spending five thousand on an instument (CT's are the only time I would personally even think of spending anywhere near that amount) everyone on this forum owes a great debt to the man for expanding ways for people to express themselves in the lower frequencies.

[/quote]


Yeah, I'm with you thumb4bob. I think that's a very special looking instrument, probably the nicest Carl Thompson I've seen since Claypool first showed off the Rainbow bass. Not sure I'd ever consider dropping that kind of coin on such a bass, but I could definitely see people being interested. I'd say the main problem the seller will have is the weak US dollar rate at present, as I think this bass would have a lot more appeal in the US than in Europe.

[quote name='Jebo1' post='105868' date='Dec 18 2007, 12:32 PM']He he, I understand. I'd still give it a go, and would pick it up (not buy over the net). Precisions (and all guitars) will pick up after xmas. I've been in the business for years, and you always see it. If you wanna bargain, buy before xmas!

My 60's Garage collection includes:

1963 Danelectro U2 Bass
1959 Danelectro U1 guitar
1967 Fender Coronado in Sunburst
1966 Fender 12 String
1966 Fender Jazz Bass
1965 Gibson Melodymaker.

They're all original, and all for sale at the moment.

I'm going to lend them my mates garage band and see what they come up with! Perhaps they'll be inspired by them![/quote]

That's a great list, however, I think I have a guitar/amp that is possibly THE 60's garage band instrument! I've got a Sears Silvertone Amp-In-The Case guitar and amp, model number 1457 (it's the version that's sunburst with 2 lipstick pickups). It's an awesome guitar, really nice clean sounds, and the amp is surprisingly good, with a very warm tone. I'd highly recommend these combos to anyone interested in the old Dano/Sears guitars.

I'll throw another option in, although like the PJB, it's not exactly a budget option. Try a Gallien Krueger MB150. Very high quality sound, in a really small package. You can also hook it up to an extension speaker for larger gigs. The internal speaker is 8 ohms, which'll allow 100 watts. You can take the load down to 4 ohms for 150 watts.

Yep, I agree. I think if you've spent the time to try and find a bargain, it seems a bit counter-productive to then tell everyone else about it.

[quote name='blamelouis' post='97345' date='Dec 1 2007, 07:06 PM']I have an EBS Octabass i might consider selling if somebody makes a decent offer!
I'ts like new ![/quote]

blamelouis, it might help your sale to indicate whether this is a Black Label pedal, or an original grey one. Also, adding the condition of the pedal would help as well.

[quote name='john_the_bass' post='92663' date='Nov 22 2007, 12:21 PM']I agree with both of the last posts and the value of anything is down to how much it's worth to you as a buyer, but is there a case that says "well a late 70s Jazz is worth between 1200 and 1400 quid (for example) but that ones had the pickups replaced so I'd knock 100 quid off for that?

or am i just saying the same things differently?! [/quote]

I own a number of old Fenders, and have also had quite a few through my hands. That doesn't make me an expert, but I'll share with you how I approach it.

First, what the guys are saying above is correct - there's no fixed guide, it's really a matter of keeping in touch with the market.

What I will say, though, is that when it comes to modifications on a bass, some have more impact than others with regards to price, so I thought I'd try and break that down for you. If any of the real vintgae experts what to add to what I say (or, for that matter, simply correct me!!!) then I'd welcome the additions.

I think that you can break mods into two categories - those that can be reversed, and those that can't.

[u]Reversible[/u]

If a bass has changed hardware or electronics, this is all reversible (to a certain extent - read on). If a pickguard has been swapped over, there's always a chance that you can find a replacement. Same with pickups, pots, neck plate, bridge, tuners, screws, thumb rest, string guide, strap buttons (I think I included everything!). However, there's two things to consider here.

[list=1]
[*]Those parts a become increasingly expensive, as the market knows they may be the difference between an upgraded bass, and one that is "all original". Pickups and pickguards are especially expensive, but basically any of these parts will set you back far more than buying a modern replacement.
[*]When it comes to pickups and electronics, there's also the issue of "original" soldering to consider. The reason it's important is because it goes some way to indicating that the bass isn't a "parts bass" - that it's not a bass that's made up of various parts that a seller may've put together, plus it's a simple test for whether the bass may be a refin. This mentality probably originated with original Les Paul Standards and L Series and pre-L Strats, but as the vintage market has pushed things like stack knob Jazzes and custom colour L series basses into the 10,000 plus bracket, people (ie. collectors) are becoming more choosy about what they part with their cash for.
[/list]

[u]Non-Reversible[/u]

This is where the bass has been modified in such a way that you can't get it back to it's original state. Refins, body routing and fretless conversion are probably the most common, but since a lot of the instruments originated in a time when mind altering drugs were pretty popular, the sky is definitely the limit!

Of the sorts of mods we're taking about, I tend to think that a refin, when well done, is probably the least offensive (for want of a better word). Basically, the bass is still as it was intended, just with a different colour.

As for the others, anything that involves altering the structure of the instrument is going to have a huge impact on value, and really, it's destroyed a lot of the collectable value. Body routing, neck modifications, new fingerboards, and anything else that involves cutting into or altering the basic structure of the instrument.

One thing I'd add is a refret. I've heard different views on this. Some people advertise the fact that their instrument has the original frets, and I guess it's a desirable quality if the frets are still in decent condition. However, I've heard it suggested that frets tend to be considered as a part of the instrument that will need to be maintained and changed at times (I guess in the same way as strings), and that provided the refret was done professionally, and that (again) it maintains the original character of the instrument, it can be considered simply as instrument maintenance, and not as a modification. Again, it's the buyer who'll make this call.

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='93796' date='Nov 24 2007, 03:44 PM']No I'm not suggesting that the buyer doctored the bass. In previous discussions about this particular instrument it's been pointed out that there is paint over-spray that clearly couldn't have originated at the factory (over some masking tape or some such like). All I was pointing out is that I am well aware that there are 2 sides to every story and whilst evidence produced appears to place all blame on the US seller, at no point has that person responded. I concede that could be an acceptance of guilt but I don't know whether the buyer and seller have had other communication that we aren't privvy to... just playing devils advocate! If the US seller really has no details of whom he bought it from that really is unacceptable for a registered trader.[/quote]

Cool. Hey, don't take my questions wrong - I honestly don't know anything about these auctions other than that I keep seeing them on Ebay. Just trying to catch up on what info's available, so thanks for doing that!!

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='93661' date='Nov 24 2007, 09:39 AM']Many of us have seen images of the offending areas and it clearly isn't original... as to who is to blame![/quote]

What ..... is there a suggestion that the guy who's running these auctions may've doctored the bass? And what about the finish? Is there a chance that he's correct? I do find the part about Tune-O-Matic not having the details of who he bought it from to be a bit suspect.

I've seen these auctions for months now, and I've always wondered what the truth was. Do any of the Fender experts have an opinion?

[quote name='bnt' post='88230' date='Nov 14 2007, 08:04 AM']Have a look at the location: "nashille/murfreesboro, tn"? The account has no completed listings in the last 12 months, but a rating of 146 based on feedback from years ago.

The contact details look like they've been copied from an existing bass retailer, but so far it looks like someone in the Nashville area who can't spell Nashville, and a bass seller who can't spell "frets". if I was interested I'd contact that retailer directly to see if it was for real. [/quote]

He's got the bass on his site, only he wants $7999 on there!!! Also, the web address listed is correct, and the emil address matches the one on his site.

I think he's just a dealer trying to cash in on the current craze Americans have for Wal basses.

That's a US bass store selling it - he's the guy who pushes Benavente basses.

Y'know, I've tried a few Wals over the years, and I don't deny they're great basses, but I never thought they were that great. It really seems that there's a push for them to go from player's basses over to collector's instruments. It's not often you see a small maker go that way - the one name that always springs to mind is Zemaitis, and anyone who's into collectible instruments knows the kind of dollars that name pulls these days. I wonder if Wal might go the same way. Apparently Brian from the Lowend seems to think so!!

I've done a few deals with Dave, and he's a great person to deal with.

I saw the thread for this on Talkbass last night, and guessed it had to belong to someone from here. I think that's the best looking Shuker I've seen so far, and, as an owner of 2 pretty special looking Sadowsky basses, I'd also give your bass the nod as one of the best looking Jazz basses I've ever seen. It's nice to see Jon has decided to go with a more Fenderish type of headstock for his Jazz basses. Congratulations, that really is a breathtaking instrument.

Sorry to hear about this. I can't believe how seriously Ebay has gone down the tubes since I first started using it. I do wish you the best of luck in catching up with the tossers who've done this to you, although I guess that isn't going to help you sell the gear.

[quote name='thedonutman' post='73043' date='Oct 11 2007, 08:18 PM']I'm sure anybody could come up with a far better one. Theft? Fire? Item was listed elsewhere and is therefore no longer for sale?
[/quote]

I would've like to have seen the old "spontaneous combustion" excuse used. Either that, or some sort of Roswell/Area 51 connection ...... "oooh ..... the green men took it".

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='72847' date='Oct 11 2007, 02:20 PM']I'll set em up you knock em down [/quote]

Thanks!

But back to the topic ...... that's one damn awful bass!