Kiwi

All I am asking for are examples where Leo Fender sacrificed time and cost in the interests of quality.

So back up the points that you believe are invalid. Yes I'm an admin and I've edited my post for clarity. But I enter this topic being TOTALLY up for being shot down. Just feel some clarity is due, thats all. BRING IT ON.

I don't think Fender cared too much about the wood at the time. It was JUST a material. The weight, mass, density wasn't a concern because there was no precedent at the time. OK so they could have been in a position to be discerning, for example, deliberately selecting old growth ash or alder or maple. But the level of awareness about what specifically makes a good bass wasn't around then. I think they were just taking whatever was available and, so long as it satisfied the expectations of the public at the time, it was good enough.

Benefit of any doubt is duly given. However I don't care about nostalgia or romanticism. Basic law of project management is that there are ALWAYS trade offs between time vs cost vs quality. It's possible to achieve any two, but the third will be compromised. So given mass production means time and cost are prioritised, the logical conclusion is quality gets compromised. Some questions in my head are; Was the selection of wood done on the basis of tone, availability of supply or cost per unit? If the wood was so important (as claimed by so many sellers) what contribution did fullerplast make above and beyond what an 80's JV Squier offered? I'd love an opportunity to separate the myth from the fact because there seems to be so much bullshit about vintage Fenders given the context they were produced in. If that happens, hopefully I'll learn something in the process.

Before this discends into a polemic argument I'm not saying that Fender produced crap instruments either. But they WERE mass produced. Mass production requires compromise. It's a process optimised for time and cost. Quality is important but not as important as time and cost. So...let the debate on the quality of craftsmanship and mass production begin.

You haven't done your research.

I hope Bruce has a good lawyer, with comments like that.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1348353774' post='1812760'] I agree wholeheartedly about questionable quality of many vintage Fenders: [/quote] I'm not saying preCBS fenders are bad quality, just that there wasn't any craftsmanship involved and the whole production process was very pragmatic. If anything their pragmatism probably adds to their appeal. But the point you make about the poor quality of the seventies Fenders causing players to reconsider older instruments is a good one but in hindsight wasn't enough to send prices crazy.

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1348340170' post='1812625'] the British importers had an amount of new sunburst guitars refin'd in fiesta red as they were more saleable. But don't count as a factory refin.............. [/quote] Custom colours were often sprayed over standard finishes. [url="http://home.provide.net/~cfh/fenderc.html"]http://home.provide....fh/fenderc.html[/url] Herbie Flower's '59 Jazz is a good example of that and he bought it in New York. Fender were NOT about producing high quality. They were about manufacturing to meet a massive demand created by the emergence of rock and roll. Any claims about the genius of Leo or the high standards of quality in old Fenders are questionable in my view. Leo was a very good product designer, not a musician and he designed the instruments with mass production in mind. Part of the reason Fenders are popular is because Fender were able to claim a significantly greater market share than Gibson thanks to that output. On other threads I've mentioned that the whole vintage bass thing was started by nostalgic baby boomers and the flames of interest were fanned into a blazing inferno of hype by retailers and stockbroker/collectors. My old high school art teacher has a '63 strat which he has had since the late 70's when they were still cheap. It's in wine red tint and all original. Can't begin to think what it's worth now. The days of being able to invest in a vintage model of instrument are over I think. The market is much more niche and specialised now. Collectors in 80's instruments are still brand loyal and driven by nostalgia but are looking for the ultimate example of a particular model. For example, the ultimate Alembic, Musicman, Steinberger, Yamaha etc.

Why now?!!!!

I like her attitude - confident, sassy. Love the playing too. But the vid just screams oreo cookie and no taste.

Do you mean this? [url="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemRevisionDetails&_trksid=p2047675.l2569&rt=nc&item=330786164879"]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemRevisionDetails&_trksid=p2047675.l2569&rt=nc&item=330786164879[/url]

Will be interesting to see what the next step is from Mica.

[url="http://contact.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ShowAllQuestions&iid=330786164879&requested=zmeyerol&redirect=0&frm=2047675&ShowASQAlways=1&ssPageName=PageAskSellerQuestion_VI"]http://contact.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ShowAllQuestions&iid=330786164879&requested=zmeyerol&redirect=0&frm=2047675&ShowASQAlways=1&ssPageName=PageAskSellerQuestion_VI[/url]

Not necessarily because they're good, but because they're standard setting. Alembic Series II 8 string (in stereo) 1960 stack knob Fender Jazz Status Series 2000 Steinberger XL2A Wal Custom 5

He was still using the Roland Cube last time I saw him (2006)

If the numbers are limited, we can transfer account information over manually. Alternatively re-registering might be better and if there are any user name poachers, the admin can sort things out.

Nice thread - love the fact that clips of the great man are finally emerging

Yes, we had someone lined up to kick it off, but his father was diagnosed with cancer so Basschat things have taken a back seat. We're hoping he will be able to get back into it in a few weeks though. We've had a series of let downs with web developers unfortunately.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1347693931' post='1804012'] 1. Don't know about this but I am pretty convinced that speaker diameter is the least important factor in the sound of a cab.[/quote] I prefer the sound of single cones. Cleaner attack. [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1347693931' post='1804012'] 2. Agreed, but lets have a proper interface rather than USB. What's wrong with MIDI? [/quote] USB is a proper interface. No reason why both aren't possible. [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1347693931' post='1804012'] 3. Better than what? Gibson Grabber, Westone Rail, Spalt vViper?[/quote] Alembic had the most elegant design. But the technology is available now to dispense with slots and indentations in the bass. [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1347693931' post='1804012'] 4. Isn't there already someone doing this with a combination dovetail joint and a single bolt.[/quote] No idea. [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1347693931' post='1804012'] 5. You probably need to try an Enfield bass with one of Simon Farmers graphite skinned necks.[/quote] Maybe, I've had email conversations with Simon in the past. His necks aren't different to Status in construction. I don't like the look of Enfield basses though.

[list] [*]A lightweight 1x15+horn wedge cab for bass. [*]A successor to the Akai SB1 Deep Impact with a USB interface and editing software [*]A better sliding pickup design. [*]A quick release neck design. [*]A graphite neck that is dead straight but doesn't sound brittle. [/list] There are probably more that I'll think of later.

I started to reply and then lost the will to live. Too much other kit in addition to basses and I'd forget 20% on first post, so would end up editing to add bits as I remembered them.