Kiwi

Relax man, it's just an opinion. But it's not stereotyping, it's a generalisation with the purpose of making a point about notions of affordability and value in the boutique market. Also check out the interview with Kyle Kim of Sire basses, there is a common perception about who the boutique market is aimed at and it's not working musicians. In regards to EB, it's in context of shared experiences of the bizarre world that is the EB forum.

I checked with Lee Anderton and he said the same thing about reducing production but he didn't know about US vs International proportions. So it looks like I was right, EB are relying on their cult of fanboy retired dentists and lawyers to prop them up. I'd like to think it might suck up some of the hot air of hype that circulates generally amongst the top brands. If there's any market that could do with a reset, it's the guitar and bass market. Especially since the recession.

I don't know if this is still the case but for a while, Valenti was making his instruments out of off the shelf parts. This is why his instruments were at the price point they were. Ironically, this is the same way that Roger Sadowsky started (who Valenti also spent some time working for).

Nice work Andy! Loving that finish.

Other US manufacturers aren't doing it though. And they'd be foolish to as it would undermine the broader appeal of their products, as you can plainly see from this thread. The only exception I can think of is if the fanboy market is big enough that they can support the factory based on their purchasing power alone. This seems a little far fetched but, given how culty it is on the EB forum I wouldn't dismiss it completely...I suppose.

Yes they can and what restrictions are you talking about? Their basses are not complicated things, they were designed with mass production in mind, just like Fenders.

Exactly. I suggested the same thing a few pages back. Fender, Warwick, Spector and others have a track record of putting the traditional workhorse models out of reach and then upselling the budget models so they become the new workhorse range.

Greed (I think).

You joined in 2008 so it only took 13 years. LMAO! Welcome back, anyway.

Prices will vary according to species too based on demand and supply. But within a single species, there's a lot of variation. Manufacturers either buy seasoned stock in bulk and grade the wood themselves, or they will buy a tree and have it milled themselves and then season it in house. For specific requirements they turn up to a sawmill and go through a woodpile themselves. EB, Dingwall and maybe Fender for timbre specific models will grade a single species according to weight as well as appearance. Fender will generally find a use for all the grades of wood depending on the price points of each model. For example, ash of a particular weight and appearance might go into a Marcus Miller model. It seems like EB are starting to do the same thing. So yes cheaper wood in cheaper models but it's not down to the purchase price so much as they're using more of what's available... there's less waste. Also it's worth remembering that a lot of eq filtering can be achieved with the electronics these days as well.

It's a podcast, not music but it's a very interesting listen. Jocko is an ex Navy Seal officer, he looks like a gorilla but there's a lot of real life experience behind his views...(although I think he should stay the hell away from politics because, for all his combat experience, he'd be on his own with no leadership or backup.) He also did his own podcast with former Navy Seal team mate and subordinate Jonny Kim, who started off as a seal medic in Jockos platoon, trained as a sniper, left the Navy and trained as a doctor at Harvard completing the four year degree in three, THEN decided to become as astronaut. He's currently scheduled for launch to the moon in 2024. Both men are a testament to what can be achieved through sheer bloody mindedness and (ironically for ex military) a humanist mindset.

He's a phenomenally funky bassist. I think Andrew McKinney (also with JTQ) is as well. And so is Phil.

Julian Crampton

So long as the V5 and V7 range don't start increasing in price to match that. We've already seen EB, Warwick, Fender and others do the let-make-the-workhorse-bass-a-halo-model thing.

Not as great as the original stingray when it was equally affordable though, unfortunately.

Kyle already owns the biggest music instrument manufacturing brand in Korea called Dame. Through a process of mostly unbelievable luck as well as diligence, he established Sire with Marcus Miller without any industry support or representation in the US. Kyle describes the US musical instrument industry as a cartel (37:50 and 49:00) because despite having Marcus Miller on board, noone at NAMM 2009 was interested in representing the brand. Kyle also mentions that, according to Marcus, his instruments were directly responsible for the break between Marcus and Fender (40:00). They also talk about how bass prices for established bass brands have crept up way beyond the costs of manufacture (21:30/22:00) which kind of ties into the Ernie Ball Specials thread. It's a long watch at 90min but worth it if you're interested in a discussion about the state of the industry.

That sounds like a very interesting combination. I like mahogany in almost anything. With the right kind of maple - not too rigid, it's really nice.

He's not the only one to have had this experience. It's fanboys only, if you're not with 'em, you're agin 'em.

he's included guitars though, still a lot of basses just by themselves...!

I forgot to mention the impact on second hand instruments as well. Watch those climb in the same way they did for Warwick and (perhaps more understandably) Wal. It's about adding something extra to a bass worth $100 and then charging $700 for it because the marketing have found a way to create mythology for the difference...roasted necks, for example. In other market sectors, used cars or financial products, there are laws against misleading claims...but it's not relevant to any market sector, like guitars, that has mythology to fall back on. The marketing department can spin a story that evokes a sense of living your dream...or anything else that can translate into bragging rights (e.g. limited edition colours) without making a single claim about tangible (and therefore actionable) benefits and there we go.

I'm waiting for a special edition 'Landlord Magnolia'. Repainted about twenty times in multiple shades of heavily chipped cream emulsion, complete with authentic brush strokes, cat hair and cigarette ash and a random assortment of screws in various sizes and shapes holding pieces of hardware on. Because: 1) The asking price doesn't reflect the actual cost of making them any more than a Louis Vuitton handbag price tag is justified in the cost of a bit of printed leather, some polyester lining, some chinese made faux gold hardware and about half an hour of labour. 2) The asking price doesn't reflect inflation. 3) They get to charge more for their mid-level instruments because they have turned their previous mid range instruments into halo models. The only justification for increasing the prices is because they want to and they are going to continue raising prices until they see a significant drop off in sales. And when that happens, it doesn't really matter because most of the brand-related interest will then focus on the mid level instruments where they'll be arguably making more money anyway because they're cheaper to produce. I think they don't care about a small number of people complaining about prices. If a small number of people DIDN'T complain, it would suggest they're not charging enough.

Mine hasn't changed in 5 or 6 years and I'm struggling to remember some but I do remember taking full advantage of the pre recession exchange rate when the US dollar was worth 50p and international shipping was half the cost. Sierra Precision - hated the ply body. Westone Spectrum II - hated the ply body. Jaydee Supernatural Mark King (which was my only bass for 12 years) - great bass, only sold it because I got an offer too good to refuse. Still hanker after a Jaydee some days. Jaydee Custom jazz - I assembled the parts and gave them to John to make a body from. Unfortunately the Moses graphite jazz neck flopped about too much. Warwick Streamer Rock Bass - surprisingly great bass. Pine body. Status Groove 5 string - also great bass. Very growly. Ken Smith BSR5GN - my first halo instrument, loved it although perhaps not the best for stage work as it was a bit mid scoopy. Pedulla Pentabuzz - a keeper, loads of mwah. The best wooden neck I've ever played - action is ridiculously low. Modulus Sonic Hammer - I sometimes miss this bass. It was really playable but it was highly aggressive sounding too. Growly though. Ken Smith BSR6GN - I wanted to channel John Patitucci. I failed. I could have rented the fingerboard out to Heathrow as a third runway. Ken Smith BSR5GN fretless - because I wanted a twin for the fretted. Sold to Randy Hope Taylor who promptly had Martin Petersen slap frets on it. Musicman Stingray (78) - had a mutilated Warwick Thumb shaped body with some goddawful sexist sci fi fantasy art airbrushed on the front. I managed to find a road rashed replacement body from the same year and I still have it. Musicman Stingray (status neck) - probably my only real example of sellers regret. Not quite as growly as the Modulus, not quite as warm as a Cutlass but a practical alternative to either. Alembic Series 1 (graphite) - still have it. Bought from the bass player in legendary Canadian band Spirit of the West. Musicman Cutlass 1 - neck like a banana, sold it eventually after talking to Rob Green. Alembic Elan 6 - heaviest bass I've ever owned, very dark sounding also. Modulus Quantum 5 Sweetspot - really brittle sounding, maybe because the neck was too rigid. Modulus Quantum 5 Sweetspot fretless - neck like a banana, had Rob Green plane it and I sold it on. Bartolini pickup was a great match though. Pedulla MVP5 - as a twin for the Pentabuzz, but the sound wasn't quite right for live work. Celinder J Update (the Skarbee bass) - nice but a tad aggressive sounding compared to my fave Celinders. It was on a recording though. Celinder J Update (96) - early model, warmer than the Skarbee but had a weird Les Paul pot arrangement. Came from a danish session player. Sold to thin the herd ahead of emigrating. Celinder P Classic - great bass but I just didn't use it apart from in a demo vid for my band at the time. Musicman Cutlass I - bought from the US, ex Cliff Williams. Neck like a banana. Musicman Cutlass II - bought off Ebay for a steal. Neck like a banana. Spector Euro 6 - ex-Sound Control bargain, I used it on stage for a year to force myself to get used to 6 strings in anticipation of the Shuker arriving but gave up eventually. Shuker Headless 6 - great bass, superb workmanship, but @Dood's headless 6-er is more my thing. Don't you just hate it when that happens? Still have it. Spector NS5CR (tobacco sunburst) - lovely sounding bass, really thick neck which I liked. Only sold it as I needed to thin the herd down. Spector NS5CR (natural) - still own it, a bit of a BC ho bass. Neck needs some attention (one day) but sounds growly just like the Smiths but with more midrange and therefore much better for stage work. Steinberger XL25A - a surprisingly fantastic sounding bass - really warm and deep. But I couldn't get on with the 13mm string spacing or the ergonomics. If only they'd made a through neck full body model... Pangborn Warlord (graphite neck) - still have it, is being restored currently Fender Jazz (1978) - it was pretty average...boring even. But it looked nice next to my preEB Stingray from the same year. Status Series 1 (graphite thru neck) - still own it, I like it more every year. Very playable, very well made. Sometimes it can sound like my Alembic Series 1. Really want to change the electronics to control the mids and low end. Dual band comp on it sounds great and tames the highs in a way that the eq doesn't. Self build headless 5 string with graphite neck - ergonomically flawed body designed by myself, but it sounds really good. If I could, I'd remake the body and probably add an extra soapbar closer to the neck. Chinese made 5 string - the atrocity that shall not be named, out of respect for the trees that died for it. GAS list: Vigier Passion V string (so long as the neck is straight), Hagstrom Super Swede for those Rutger Gunnarsson moments, early 90's Status Series II 5 string for those Britpop moments, Celinder J Update 5 string (in blue w/ birdseye maple neck), 1982 Gibson Ripper, Industrial Radio Pro 5

Someone would have had to sign off on it as well. There are plenty of references to worship amongst the rest of the listings for appearances, so it looks like they're being very calculating.

Music doesn't need belief. And even if it does, believe in what? The only context I can think of is gospel and if the intent is to appeal to musicians of faith then it seems like clumsy, maybe even patronising example of value signalling. Please tell me I'm mistaken.