Wolverinebass

A friend of mine let me borrow his '81 precision and that bass was absolutely devastating. Much more cutting than I expected which I guessed was just down to pickups even though they were stock.

[quote name='spectoremg' timestamp='1449430086' post='2923480'] Who the f%&k is Stu Hamm? McCartney never needed to play like him, he was busy writing and performing some the most iconic music of all time. In the records of a hundred years hence I doubt Stu Hamm will feature. Get a grip! [/quote] Clearly you missed the point I was trying to make. The OP asked "what is McCartney good at?" Blue said "everything" hence the suggestion that he can play in any style well. So I listed a few styles that he would probably struggle with to illustrate the point that absolutely nobody can do that. I can do 2 styles really well, but as for the rest..... maybe less so. As it happens, I find Stu Hamm somewhat self indulgent at times but you can't fault his technical skills. It's not about being remembered, to which your post is completely correct as his songs have stood the test of time. I took what Blue said literally as opposed to what he meant which was "what he does, he does well." Simple isn't it? Blue is a fan, as am I.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1449270803' post='2922218'] Everything Blue [/quote] With respect, that's absolute rubbish. Nobody does everything well. If that's what you're saying, I think the possibility of seeing him try to solo like Stu Hamm or play in a progressive band like Tool, or slap like Mark King would be enough to dispel the thought that he can do everything well as I'd imagine it'd be a bit car crash. He does several things in the terms of playing well like most of us. But nobody, does everything "well." Not McCartney, Pastorious, Clarke, Jamerson, Entwistle, King or any other iconic bass player you can name can do everything well. They have their niche areas in which they excel (or not dependent on whether you like their style or even their music), but nobody is all things. McCartney isn't any different in that respect. I happen to like his playing, before anyone asks.

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1447516505' post='2908261'] Yes, however the cheaper Dean explorer featured in the OP's original post is priced at £775....we aren't discussing the higher priced Dean explorer. 775 x 20 = 1550 Just sayin! [/quote] Apologies mate, I missed that! Such a pity it's black as price wise it's not completely horrific. I doubt you'd get that much alembic similarities out of that though aside from the shape. Just a shameless cash in really. On the other hand, you could get something more like it by putting in an ACG filter preamp but that's another £200 or so on top. Just a thought.

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1447365321' post='2907180'] Perhaps...but at approximately a 20th of the price it gives those with very little disposable income (most of us) the opportunity to get at least a 9th of the Alembic vibe. [/quote] Funnily enough, my point of a "9th rate copy" was actually slightly more right than I knew. A Dean spider costs £2500 or so. An Alembic re-issue spyder costs $15500. So, call it £16000. Those aren't completely accurate copies as John's Explorers were basically just normal signature electronics with a second master volume knob for a boost with series pickups. The reissues don't have the same pickups or 2nd master volume. That's aside from the various other profile idiosyncracies which he asked for at the time such as a flat fretboard to name but one. Even if it were a series 2 Alembic that would be 10 times more than the Dean, not 20 times more. However, it's worth noting that you'd probably be able to get a 2nd hand series 1 Alembic from say the 1980's for £2800. There are a few that pop up reasonably often. It's in effect that same sound and given the choice of one of them as compared to the Dean, it's no choice at all. Especially if you're comparing like for like in pricing situation.

It depends what sort of thing you want really. The Live at Leeds is easiest to copy in terms of sound and gear. Personally, I find this Bass Collection bass immensely distasteful. Yeah, John used to play basses made of basswood. Not. At least if you're going to copy something do it properly!! As for the Dean basses, I've tried a few of them and they're crap. The limited edition is not bad, but it's not an Alembic so what's the point? Well, the answer to that question is that Chris Entwistle can license his dad's name onto any bass for some quick pile of cash. I gather the Wickershams at Alembic weren't amused, but as with the Warwick and Status buzzards, anyone who's ever played both variants (as I have) knows that the Warwick version is totally inferior in almost every way just as the Dean is a 9th rate cousin to the Alembic it has ripped off in the most brazen way. Were it me, I'd be getting a Cataldo (and I have considered it in the past actually). Not that I've ever played one, but sound samples I've heard sound great. As long as they're put together right, I'd imagine they'd be very, good instruments. More than likely because the pickups have some serious kick.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1443612696' post='2876183'] ... what should I go after? By 8-string I mean four pairs tuned EADG, not an ironing board. I played a John Diggins monster at the Bassbash, heaviest bass I have [u][i][b]ever [/b][/i][/u]picked up, but it did sound simply immense. Tried out one of the current Hagstrom 8-strings yesterday but it was thoroughly [i]meh [/i]and really rather badly made too. Bumped into Dave Swift and asked his opinion. He really rates the old Ibanez Musician and Ibanez Studio 8-strings but says that they're really heavy. Given the size of the man, if he thinks they're heavy then I stand no chance. What does the Basschat massive recommend? [/quote] Don't you mean you tried my 8 string explorer at the bash Jack? It's a warmoth. Yes, it weighs several tons.

Thanks to everyone who organised this, it was really good fun and a great day. It was great to put a few more faces to names and catch up with folk I haven't met for a while and try some very nice basses as well. Sadly, I had to skip out and missed Trevor's Wal talk due to the joys of babysitting duties last night, but the cab shootout was very good as well as Lozz deciding he didn't like his own cabs which was hilariously funny.

I'll be along. Was hoping to bring something a bit different like my 8 string Explorer, but am just recovering from a knee op, so I thought that schlepping a bass that weighs more than the Empire State Building across London might be a bad idea. Ha!! Really interested in Trevor's talk as I hopefully should take possession of a very nice new Wal in about a month.

Just looking at their website. How can you make a 4x12 that only weighs 29kg? That just doesn't seem possible. I think even gk's is 35kg and aguilar and mesa come in at 65kg or so. Could it be made out of air?!!

I read recently that David Guetta lost his entire set for his most recent tour at an airport. It was on a pen drive. I'm sorry, just no. Get lost and take every overpaid non-musician, laptop wielding, bad Hawaiian shirted moron with you. I'm sure that most of these guys are really estate agents from Clapham and instead of having some really cool name they're probably all called Jasper. Which makes it even worse.

I use a Roland PK6 into a Moog Slim Phatty with fx from Strymon Mobius and Timeline pedals for added craziness. It's fantastic.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1438358462' post='2833928'] Sounds like you'd be better off with a mic on the cab. [/quote] I agree with that completely Chris. However, if the sound guy won't do it then you're kind of screwed and you're stuck with at best a post eq DI. Most won't even agree to that and insist on the DI before the amp. I've taken my own Heil PR40 to gigs and most still won't mic the cab. It's ludicrous. However, I digress somewhat.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1438355321' post='2833880'] If someone decided that a flat response was their goal and then decided a whole load of EQ and FX were in the chain, where would that leave you? [/quote] That would leave you with your insane amounts of FX reproduced as you wish rather than EQ'ing for the cabs you're using. At least, you'd hope so.... My view stems from the fact that I'm tired of EQ'ing for the cabs I'm using. It's not that they're bad if you're using a 4 string, but if you use an 8 or a 12ver, well, they are seriously less so and although I can get a good sound, the post amp DI sounds like a buzzsaw with virtually no low end on it at all. That isn't what comes out as obviously there is a huge boost in the 100-180Hz region from the cab rather than the amp. The fact that the treble is pretty much uncontrollable with those tweeters just does my head in as most EQ's are tailored for control of the lows rather than treble which is a pity. There are some really weird boosts about 3-4kHz and that's very difficult to control on a bass that is in effect 2/3rds of a guitar and has quite a lot of signal up there. Whilst Chris' point of flat response being a starting point to me is valid, I just find it irritating that DI's differ so much from the output because cabs are hyped in certain areas. If the problem can be solved for PA's can we not do a bit better for us humble coffee maker bass players?

These days the fashion is to have a more DI authentic type response from one's cabs. So that the DI you take from your amp (I'm assuming a post EQ DI here) will be the same as comes out one's cab. My question is, does anyone actually make a cab or range of cabs which do this? If so, whom? Barefaced? Bergantino? Mesa Boogie? TKS? (just to name a few of the higher end brands) I'm discounting Markbass as their cabs have all sorts of weird notches and peaks in them and obviously Ampeg and Ashdwon as theirs are massively coloured. Okay if you like that sort of thing, but rather unfortunate if you don't. Do any manufacturers actually have anything that can deliver this boast or is it all just marketing pants and you should just use your own ears to determine if the "colour" on offer is the one you want? I'm curious to gauge people's opinions on this and if this claim whether justified or not plays any part in what cabs people buy for themselves. This is of course on the assumption that you could afford anything and didn't have to buy a 10 year old Ashdown Mag 4x10 for £50 off Ebay.

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1435588928' post='2810318'] The Who may not be the band they were back in the 60's / early 70's. But they're a better proposition [i]now[/i] than when they were during during the Kenney Jones era. [size=3][b]1982[/b]: Worst Who Ever[/size] [color=#ffffff][size=3].[/size][/color] [/quote] I'm not sure that's true. Kenney Jones is equally wrong as Pino for the respective jobs in the Who. The worst possible line-up would have both of them, not just one of them. I should say I like both of them as musicians in their own right. Having seen them in 2000, if you closed your eyes it could quite easily have been Keith Moon rather than Zak Starkey playing drums as he would have been about 35 then. I wonder how off Entwistle would have been now had he lived with the bonkers deafness and whatnot. The Who may very well have become awful for the purists anyway. They are as they are. I hope people enjoy it. I just find it a pointless comparison with pino as he just doesn't play like John either stylistically or tonally. Townshend wanted to change the band and has done so. Some people like it and some don't. Such is life.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1434977609' post='2804307'] I bet the prick that's running Apple didn't work a 3 month trial period and without pay. [/quote] My sentiments exactly.

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1434536546' post='2800482'] W150615 is born... ...available to pick up in two weeks time [/quote] Why is it not available to pickup now? It would be stating the obvious to note that it appears to be finished and in the case. Just curious as I am expecting mine sometime in October.

[quote name='James Nada' timestamp='1434054029' post='2796366'] Did Fender buy (and shut down) Hamer? I didn't know that. What are the chances of Fender doing a Precision 8 or 12 string? I'd love one. [/quote] The Kamen group which owns Fender bought Hamer and shut it down. In 2012 when I decided I wanted to get a 12, I phoned up Fender GB as they were (and still are) listed on Hamer's website as their UK arm enquiring about how to order one. Bear in mind that a new B12L cost £3K or something ludicrous at that time. I had the money and the response I got was, "they aren't sold anymore." When I asked why as they were still listed on Hamer's site, plus i had the money, the reply I got was "It's too similar to the basses we make." I don't even know if Fender have even made an 8 let alone a 12. You can't make that up. I do believe that Hamer had become less profitable, but were still in the black. From what I understand, the rot started to really kick in when Jol Danzig left. Then when Kamen came in they looked at it and realised they could take all the craftsmen from a company that maybe had seen better days, so they shut it down. Nowadays, 12vers (decent ones) just don't exist. At least, not in my opinion.

[quote name='James Nada' timestamp='1434043794' post='2796241'] This is exectly the reason 12 string basses evolved in the 70s. Any 12 string love on here? [/quote] Yeah!! I love my Hamer. My 8 string Explorer is fantastic as well. I find it hilarious when people try to use the same settings with a 12 or an 8 that they'd use with a 4 and expect themselves to cut through with the octave strings. You just don't. A prime example is of course Jeremy by Pearl Jam. Sounds great in the intro, but if you picked the song up halfway through you couldn't be certain what he's playing. It could be a four as you can't hear the octave strings. My own personal experience is that you have to use split signals. Whether that be a guitar amp with your bass rig (I could never get that to work quite the way I wanted to) or use a crossover and apply some distortion and processing to the top end only. It's what I do and if done right it is absolutely devastating. Full signal distortion doesn't work for a 12 but ironically works with my 8 reasonably better. Fuzz is a no go as it just turns the top end to mush. The way I have mine is that the signal is clean up until about 300Hz and above that there's some rather brutal tube distortion going on as well as maybe flanging or chorus or whatever. Chorus tends to bring a certain zing back into play and if you want some chime that's how I get mine. You can play then just as easy or complexly as a 4. I can do slap on a 12 and I'm in no way amazing at it. The nature of it does lend itself to using the instrument more as a sledgehammer rather than a fencing sword, but such is the way of things. It depends what you like. 12 strings totally rule though. Such a pity that Hamer went under. Thanks for that Fender.

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1433687495' post='2793092'] Must admit when I tried Barefaced cabs for the first time I thought they were a tad trebly/middy, but then I realised it was the colouration of the other cabs I`d been using that made me think this - Markbass cabs, and as the OP found out, they seem to roll off the highs a bit. Probably why my DI`d sound back then was always much treblier through FOH than what I had on stage. Still loved the sound of them though, but needed a rig that would enable me and FOH to essentially hear the same thing, hence going for the BF Super 12T - great cab, like it so much I`ve got two. [/quote] I tried the Big Twin 2 at the 2013 SE bash. I didn't find it excessively trebley at all. However, in a caveat to that statement, although I was playing my own Alembic it was through Simon's Markbass amp head and Bergantino 4x10 which I didn't change the settings on just to compare it to some similar high end gear. I just played with the filter settings on my bass. That berg cab was the best 4x10 I'd ever played. However, I find Markbass amps a bit "spongy" in the low mids. Frankly, the only reason I wouldn't buy a Barefaced is the appearance which is kind of stupid on many, many levels. I agree entirely with you about the DI sound matching the amplified sound as this is my ideal as well. I kind of agree with you about Markbass having a rolled off top end. I would go slightly further in that I'd say that there are "holes" in the treble content of those cabs. It's not so noticeable when using a 4 string, but using multi coursed basses (12ver's especially) it becomes very noticeable that there are some very peculiar notches and bumps going on up there. It also has the rather unfortunate effect of making the treble content very difficult to control indeed. If I still had the files I'd post some screenshots of post fx DI compared to the cabs recorded with a Heil PR40 in different positions and then having the lines overlaid to show the difference. It's very interesting and whilst the boost in the high bass/low mids in the Markbass cabs is well known, I find the treble content problem much, much more irritating. However, when you get a rich, overdriven sound and the DI which is going to the cabs sounds like a chainsaw with very little lows at all I would say that puts a dent in the Markbass thought of an "uncoloured" signal. Naturally, other people's experiences may differ and this isn't in any way meant as a slagging off towards Markbass. I can get what I want out of them, but I can't get the whole "DI matching the amplified signal" which I might like. Not that I think they've ever claimed that is the case with their products.

I've always been of the thought that no matter how good you are at something, there is always someone better than you at some facet of what you do. Otherwise, it would be taken for granted who was "the best" bass player ever? As for my point about the Who, I actually happen to like Pino in his own right. In the Who, I don't think it's unfair to say that he's the wrong man for the job despite how amazingly gifted he is as his style is all wrong for that band. On the other hand, I'm not entirely sure that there is even a right person now. So you see my point (hopefully) that nobody does everything well. Maybe I just think the Who are rubbish now and it's more noticable now post 2002.

Good grief?!! Warwick "borrowing" features from another manufacturer? This cannot be the case!! Or not as the case may be. I look at Warwicks and just laugh at how much they've lost their way. Look, there's the Spector version. Oh, there's the Gibson EB0 version. There's the just a nut feature they "borrowed" from Alembic. Oh dear, there's the new Adam Clayton version. It looks like someone's put a plastic keyring in an oven for an hour and whatever shape it makes when it comes out is what he gets once they slap a precision pickup in it and say it costs six grand. "Designed by bassists for bassists" is sure to be the tagline. Jog on.

I appreciate that everyone's viewpoint is different. For people like Blue and those who get paid well for playing, money is a key consideration. It's not for me. I'm going to be 36 this year. I gave up on the whole "being famous" nonsense when I was 23. I've been in bands that have been signed since that point I hasten to add. However, now that I'm a bit older with 2 kids, my viewpoint has ironically not changed. I will never to covers. Ever. The day I think it's a good idea is the day I tear my ears off and sell all my gear such is my distaste for it. My own view is for self expression and if you get it playing Mustang Sally, so be it. Good for you, but sadly that doesn't work for me as I have to feel I've helped create something. Being paid would just be an ancillary bonus as it were. I'll only ever join a band that I have control over my playing and I'm sure that due to that fact alone and that I'm only interested in certain genres means that as Blue suggests (much like his friend) my options are somewhat limited. Fair enough, I accept that. How many bands want someone to play a 12 string in their band?!! Especially bad is finding people for a progressive metal band. Even in London it's just a vast emptiness with tumbleweed blowing by....

[quote name='E sharp' timestamp='1433021339' post='2787216'] Well Mark King has had more signature basses , I reckon . [/quote] It seems to do well for Rob Green. Only 9 Kingbass varieties so far. See you next year for the new version with some pointlessly ludicrous miniscule twist. In Adam Clayton's case, why is he doing it?! He doesn't need money and it's certainly not for prestige or something like that. He's one of the most famous bass players in the world. He could buy any bass ever made. Any amp ever made. It's just bonkers to put your name to something that you could buy so easily and disavow when the next NAMM show is on to pose with the next "shiny, "shiny." I suppose I'm old school in this regard in that I find it wholly distasteful. I couldn't put my name to something and then turn around and sign up for something else in such a calculated, cynical fashion if I've given someone my word. Even more so if I was already rich beyond measure.