ironside1966

The great thing about this forum is its diversity and collective knowledge so why is it the every time that someone mentions backing tracks you always get, I am a real musician and real musicians would not play with backing tracks because it is cheating crap?
Let’s keep this informative and may be it will help out a lot of people.

I think it is important to understand how an engineer’s brain works.

When working with pro musicians they don’t like long sound checks, they expect you to get it right quickly and with a minimum of fuss, when pro come out to the desk it can be seen as a vote of no confidence in the engineer or a load of musicions telling you to turn up their instruments (it is not uncommon when working with a inexperienced band for them all to come up individually and say it sound good but I need turning up)
Many venues don’t like long sound checks, often you work with time against you so you are used to working quickly.
Once I have gone quickly through the individual instruments I get the band to play a song, if all is well I will turn the FOH off about half way through the song ask if everything is ok, if so job is done.

The time that the band are playing is a time of intense concentration, the last thing you need is someone saying are you going to turn me up no matter how polite they are.

At loud volumes your ears deteriorate very quickly so you make the most of them while you can.

Mixing by committee never works

Why do you need to explain what you want when we can hear what’s coming out of your amp? We don’t want to change your guitar sound we just what to make fit in with the mix.

When I am the musician on stage I just let the engineer get on with it I never mention that I am one unless I can be helpful, the good ones don’t care and the bad cock it up tiring to prove how good they are.
When you have been kicking about a long time you get a instinct for the good ones so you just leave them too it , the bad ones will cock it up anyway so what’s the point.

Here’s what you can do

if something is particle impotent to the band’s sound Eg like the bass in the stranglers on you what prominent vocal harmonies then by all means let the engineer know.

We are not a bad lot and in most cases quite friendly it is just when you do a job 4 or 5 times a week you know what you’re doing.

[quote name='Finbar' post='571037' date='Aug 16 2009, 08:50 PM']I don't know, I guess I don't have the SIMPLEST rig in the world, but I do try and make it easy as possible. I use two amps - one of which I'm happy to use a DI from, and the other I'm happy to have mic'd (it runs all my distortions etc). But it isn't a bassy sound - the other amp has that covered. And we are a one guitar band. So I don't personally see the problem using the 57 that was being used for the every other band's second guitarist for it. I know its a bit of a muckabout mixing the two bass signals for FoH, but I do my best to help, and like MacDaddy, can go wireless and stand out front and put my two pennies in for the sound guy. I never do it in a condescending way or anything, and just try and help things go smoothly really. I know my tones, and I know what should work in the context of my band's overall sound! And I'm really of the opinion that it should be a collaborative effort, not a fight between the band and the soundguy. Not every band thinks this way, and not every soundguy does either.

I completely agree about not turning up with enough sockets though. I need 4, and I've found it a real pain in the past. Can't believe I didn't get a 4 way for the back of my rack sooner![/quote]

I can see the sense in your rig, and it always useful to discuss with the engineer before hand or anything that like that’s out of the ordinary, but I can see no point what so ever in standing FOH in the sound check, the priority for you is that you are comfortable on stage as said earlier a sound check is to set levels.

What I don’t understand is when people bring in back braking rigs when all you need is enough volume to be able to hear yourself on what is in most cases is a moderate sized stage.
Get a good onstage sound and a good engineer will reproduce that

[quote name='EskimoBassist' post='570493' date='Aug 16 2009, 10:57 AM']I have only ever played one or two gigs where I ahve actually been able to hear myself. And that's out of a lot of gigs![/quote]

If you can’t hear yourself that is down to the you or band.

In most moderately sized gig all that need to go through the monitors is vox and sometimes keys, in most cases it is up to the band to get a balance so there are a couple of options
The band play too loud
Your gear is not up to the job
You are deaf
Or that it is down to how you EQ the amp IE no middle, that is one reason why Di boxes are a god send.

The reason why we don’t normally mic up bass cabs is because there is a high risk of bass rumble for want of a better word and offers little flexibility.
A kick drum mic is very colored so will not give a accurate sound.
A Sm57 don’t have a low enough bass extension.

The more you put through the monitors the less clarity the vocals have

Most pro engineers know that if you keep thing simple there is less to go wrong and the results are better.
If you have a regular sound guy who knows your set up ten by all means experiment but when you have a band that you have not heard before we like to keep things simple.

Having bad experiences with sound men is normal, but if the majority of experiences is bad maybe it’s time to look inwards
Last word when you work with a good band and you turn the sound down there is still a good balance between the instruments turn the pa on and the sound just gets louder. With others you just lose the vocals and the bass sounds like its coming from one place and the guitar sounds like its coming from another.

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='570326' date='Aug 15 2009, 11:51 PM']when I'm happy with the onstage sound and monitor mix, I go out front and stand with the sound dude while the band are playing - I'm wireless - so I can hear what we sound like. Some sound dudes don't like this, but I'm always polite about it.[/quote]

This is not because the engineer is been rude it is just that a sound check is mainly to set levels sort out the fold back and try to anticipate any problems, there is not much pint in doing any thing else as the sound changes when the room gets full, having someone flapping over a guitar or drum sound is distracting.

As for Bullins I believe a lot of the camps have got rid of their sound and light crew and the job is left to the red coats.

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='570046' date='Aug 15 2009, 04:43 PM']I probably shou;ld have made it clearer in my original post - my grievances aren't necessarily with the guy who does the sound. Our band has a soundman who comes to all our gigs and does a greatr job. It's the in-house engineers that set up all the equipment that I have a problem with. We recently played a fairly well-known and prestigious venue in Birmingham, and the engineer turned up about an hour late and proceeded to set up the mikes and stuff at a snail's pace. The result was constant feedback from the horn players' monitors, which left no alternative but to turn them off.[/quote]

The fact of life is you get what you pay for, many to venues don’t want to pay a lot so they end up with students or inexperienced people often working for a few quid and drinks.
If you bring your own engineer they are reluctant to let them anywhere near the pa for fear of damage or misuse of the pa, you can’t blame them how do they know if you are any good, other just don’t want to pay someone to sit around so they insist on making them work.

In venues with their own engineer I found it’s the ones that insisted that you stay clear of the PA are the one that would benefit most from you not staying away.
If you have any doubts why not take your own desk/ engineer and just link in?

Well said redroque some good points.

People need to know the difference between someone who is incompetent and someone whose methods you don’t quit agree with.

I have to agree that a lot of sound men tend to be obsessed with the kick and snare, my priority is and always will be vocals.

Let me start by saying there a good sound engineers and then there a bad ones, some have a good attitude and some don’t but the good ones generally are ok.

I have been a pro sound engineer so I can talk form experience.

I do not like the Di straight from the guitar, but a Di from the amp is a good compromise.
Mic’ing up a bass cab can be a pain in the ass and create more problems than it solves.
A sound engineer listens to the entire mix not just a single instrument and try’s to achieve a sound that works with the band , often musicians want a bid sound but that is not always what works best in the context of a band.

In many cases especially where there is more than one band there is often very little time to go changing amps.
The priority of the sound man is to get a good audience pleasing sound with the minimum of fuss in the time allowed.
I would have no problem with swapping amps if it is practical but not if it is more trouble than it is worth.
If time is limited be fair to everyone swapping you amp may mean someone has to without a sound check.

It is always taken with a pinch of salt when a musicians friend or family (more so ones that play an instruments) say they could be a bit louder.

I like to work with musicians who have a creative input in what I do and the music as a whole, I don’t want some guitarist to show mw how to play bass, but I like the exchange of ideas eg,
1. more notes ,
2. less notes,
3. if I do this then you try that,
4. maybe we should try accenting these beats,
5. why not try a half time feel?

I also think you need someone to quality control and IMHO if you are a musician says my instrument is sacred so must stay of my my patch, then you may be missing and could be a better band /player.
It gets easy as you get older and people have less of a ego and more experience what works so less need to be said.

Feel is something that can be learnt, I think that us bassists like to thing at times that we have a special gift from god sent to a chosen few but in most cases mine included it a product of hard work and practice.

When people are brought up around music it feels natural to them so it makes it easier to play, where some of the Eastern, Asian and Latin rhythms can go against Weston people are used too so they are more difficult to learn and the variations can get lost on us, it is also true with scales.

I have worked on the sound for many a entertainment show cases and seen many successful acts using tracks in many forms.

You can get away with much more in a band then you can with tracks. If you are good then people will accept you for what you do. I have worked with many talented people in my life far more talented then I and very few have had any problem with tracks and can enjoy talent for what it is.

Many of the duos I know have all spent their time in bands but are fed up with the hassle and politics of been in a band but still want to play songs they enjoy mostly rock or soul. They work in places that can’t afford a band. And most of the time everyone is happy, you will always get grief from punters no matter what you do.
Why should they change what they do because other musicians the majority armature say that it is wrong.

I would much rather see a good duo any day then a bad band any day and have done the acoustic duo bit I hated it.

BigRedX has said it all.
Has said thereare a couple of routes you can go down.

Someone in the band to do them, if someone can do a good job, but you will need a good sound source, GM sounds are not all that good.
Use midi files and change the to you needs, free midi files are hit and miss so I would buy them.
This would be my choice but you will also need a good sound source.

Get someone else to do them for you

Great bass player and all round musician there are some good bass lines in Chas and Dave songs.
If you take the blinkers off and listen to the songs they are all great players drummer included.
I first got interested in slapping when I saw C&D on Top of the Pops doing a octave slap thing, I didn’t know what he was doing but it looked cool who said C&D are not cool.

A Tip



When wiring a plug always make the earth long enough so that it is the last to go should the cable get pulled.
As a rule I always leave a good cm or two extra length on the earth.

[quote name='fusionbassist1' post='554447' date='Jul 28 2009, 09:22 PM']Ok then.

I must admit amidst all this I have lost sight of why exactly i should declare myself officially self employed exept out of fear of being rodded my mr tax.

I guess that's just it though, i'm going to have to do it someday and i suppose it's time to be a grownup and realise not all my money's going to go into my pocket from now on....*sigh*

Anybody had any experience or advice in how to go about such things at 18 or should it really not matter as the whole tax ordeal is a learning curve i'm going to have to get through at some point in my life regardless?

Thanx once again for trawling through such a boring subject for my sake [/quote]

Don’t worry a good accounted will help through it and answer all you questions, it is not hard you just need to keep on top of things.
When you are working with other people who are declaring tax it is highly likely that you will be implicated before long.
To make this simple if I run a band that has worked for the BBC ,the BBC will tell the tax man how much they paid me then I will declare how much I paid you, if they check me out they will find you.

Ps I have checked out your MySpace great playing and like the tone, is it only a cheap Washburn T bass

Any clarification would be really, really appreciated.
[/quote]

My advice will be get an accountant while you have the money and do everything above board a good one will advise well try to find one who is experienced with dealing with musicians.

If you get caught out once the tax man will never trust you again and may suspect you are still trying to cheat him even though you are been honest there is not only tax but NI contributions also.

Sometimes when a HF driver blows it can be fixed quite easily. if the driver is blown at the start of the coil take a few windings off and re solder. Not always possible but worth a try.
I don’t thing peavey replacements are all that expensive.

I am not a big lover of tab also some of the songs that I know already seem a bit out to me , EG come on come over Jaco and good times Chic. but iam not perfect and could be wrong my self

Any one used.
[url="http://www.basscamera.com/"]http://www.basscamera.com/[/url]

[quote name='kingofthestuntmen' post='541331' date='Jul 15 2009, 02:37 PM']FOUND ONE..!

Passing by Crack Generator in Trongate in Glasgow this morning, saw this in the window. Asking price is £199.99... Looked old but cared for; hardware a bit tarnished but no visible damage, though I didn't have the time to stop and check her out -





If anyone checks her out let me know, eh..?

KotS[/quote]

one on ebay for £550
[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ultra-rare-Gordon-Smith-Gypsy-bass-guitar_W0QQitemZ160347561089QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item2555759c81&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1688%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ultra-rare-Gordon-Sm...%3A1%7C294%3A50[/url]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='548441' date='Jul 22 2009, 11:56 PM']depends on the age of the thing.[/quote]

P i think 1993 or 1994

I would personally do it unless another party backs out as you don't want to be seen as unreliable

A cheap rubber mat

Do all Fender Japan basses have where they are made on the heal of the neck with the serial no or can they be found on the head stock instead?

Most people work with the drummer wearing headphones with a click track.

A lot of the free midi files are hit and miss so I would consider paying for them.

Stay away from only using GM as the are generally not that good. unless thing have changed in the last 6 years.

Are you using a large PA with engineer or do you have a simple set up? if the latter keep the set up simple also, do the tracks at home then bounce them to a stereo file one side click and the other side music. use a mini disk or until player until you get to grips with working with them.

A lot depends on what type of band you want to be.

as for "musical integrity"...

here is a quote from danOwens

"I only seem to come into contact with the haters on the amateur circuit. Throughout my professional work, most people seem to be either interested in or involved with midi sequencing to some degree:

good luck