BigRedX

Right now, for originals bands the financial entry level to getting your music out to the public has never been lower in every respect. That means the cost of decent instruments as well as making and "releasing" a recording. Of course that means that everyone who can is now doing it, so the signal to noise ratio is now greater than ever. In the past I don't think that not having much money has ever been a real barrier to making music for me. Lack of it might have meant that I couldn't always do things exactly how I wanted, but I always found ways to at least make music and get it out to the public. Some of it might have meant making lifestyle choices that others might not find palatable, but those of us who a truly driven to make music will always find ways of doing so.

What's your amp and cab? IME you need a clean amp otherwise the drive sounds from the effects can have a tendency to clash with the drive of the amp. Also set your amp's EQ to as close to neutral as is possible and use the Helix to shape the sound. Whenever I hear musicians struggling with multi-effects often the problem is that the amp and cab is getting in the way with conflicting EQs and drives. For me my amp has been just about making me audible as far as possible and anything else is an unwanted side effect. I'd start with just the Obsidian 7000 module. I know that Dark Glass devices as supposed to be aimed at "metal" sounds, but for me this is by far the most comprehensive set of drive and EQ possibilities.

That's what the dad rock band I was in did. However a couple of the bass lines were surprisingly easier to play at the recorded pitch in standard tuning. Having to transpose up a semi-tone made then slightly harder...

The SE we had was good and we sounded excellent on stage and FoH, but he arrived late and was overly methodical in setting up (slow). If he'd turned up on time it wouldn't have been a problem and he could have taken as long as he wanted. We'd been warned about the bus lanes and took great pains to avoid them. The problem was the loading instructions were incomplete so we didn't know we needed to turn off Midland Street to find the loading entrance, and it wasn't helped by road works and barriers around the turning.

Next gig for In Isolation is in Coventry at The Arches Venue, on Saturday 25th May. Chaos Bleak in support:

Unless the lest Sei models are completely new designs, I really can't see the point in playing one first if you already familiar with the concept. When I had my Sei (Off-set Flamboyant 5-string fretless) made about 15 years ago, it was made specifically for me to my guidelines. The personal nature of the bass was brought home to me when I went to collect the finished instrument. While I was waiting for Martin to make some last-minute adjustments, I gave me another recently completed 5-string fretless Sei to play. The two instruments could hardly have been more different in feel, playability, and sound. I'm not that brilliant a player compared with the typical Sei user, but I even I could tell - the one made for me felt perfect. The other, while really nice, just didn't feel as though it fitted me.

It's hardly difficult to dress like Joy Division era Peter Hook. A light coloured long sleeve shirt with the sleeves partially rolled up and medium grey trousers. If you don't already have something close to that in your wardrobe, you could probably get it for about £10 from Primark. It is my experience that some musicians just don't get the concept of band image. We used to have the same problem with stand-in drummers and guitarists for The Terrortones. While we didn't expect them to get leathered up, although it would be great if they did, the guidelines were "wear black - no obvious band or brand logos and no trainers for the guitarists". You'd be amazed at how many couldn't (or didn't want to) follow a simple instruction like that. Whenever I have played with new musicians I always ask about band image before the first gig and if there is one will conform to it. I already did in my OP.

So your Helix is just for effects. Which ones do you want to use?

We were told by both the venue and promotor that there was a drum kit and a guitar and bass amp at the venue which we could use and we knew the tribute band would be using the house kit. We brought our backline because it doesn't take up much space in the transport or on stage, but used the house kit, as it's generally more convenient at multi-band gigs. Just as well really as "backstage" was through the audience and down a flight of stairs which would have been a nightmare for shifting drum kits and backline. TBH their bass player probably sounded better going through my Peter Hook Helix patch into the PA then he would had a brought his own (probably very metal) rig.

What's your whole signal chain? Any more effects or just the Helix? Are you going into an amp or direct to the PA?

In Isolation were at Ivory Blacks in Glasgow. Probably the most convoluted load-in I've encountered in recent years with the instructions we'd been given by the promotor being somewhat incomplete, so we drove around the "block" twice before I jumped out to ask the venue where we were supposed to go. Having road works obscuring the entrance to the back alley we needed to be on didn't help. The venue itself was good with a decent sized stage and impressive old-school looking PA. Sound engineer was late and was very laid back in his approach, so although it ended up sounding good on stage and FoH we finished the sound check with seconds to spare before the doors opened. We were playing somewhat early and the turn-out was still quite sparse when we started, although there was a decent sized crowd by the end who had turned up to see the headlining band - a Joy Division tribute act. I'm going to start another thread about this because I wasn't entirely convinced by them and I wondering if as a musician I'm just being too picky. Even so plenty of people told us they enjoyed the set afterwards (there was one bloke who actually cheered when we started the song "Not Noticing") and we covered our expenses for the long trek from Nottingham. Next weekend should be a lot easier as we're in Coventry with Chaos Bleak.

I'm starting this thread because one of my bands shared the stage with a tribute act at the weekend and TBH I was less than impressed with the whole set up. I'm wondering if it's just me as a musician, and the fact that one of the original band was a massive influence on my playing, being too picky; or if I'm justified in my concerns. First off I do have to say that I'm not really interested in tribute bands (or covers bands in general) as either a musician or a punter so that might be colouring my views. Over the years I've been lucky enough to be able to see most of the bands that I really like in the days when they were still young and hungry, and for those that I missed there are always the records or CDs, and even now there are new exciting and interesting bands, whose music appeals to me, appearing all the time, so I don't really need the nostalgia. The band in question were a Joy Division tribute. I had a chance to see Joy Division at what turned out to be their penultimate gig, but turned it down in order to go to Sheffield to see Vice-Versa and Clock DVA, thinking that there would always be another opportunity to see Joy Division but I might not get the chance to see Vice-Versa again. How wrong I was... Also anyone who has seen or heard my band recently will probably have spotted that Peter Hook continues to be a massive influence on my bass playing. So for the tribute... The good. The singer had Ian Cutis nailed in pretty much every respect - the voice and the look complete with the thousand yard stare and manic "arm dancing". He is obviously the star of the show and rightly so. However the rest of the band not so much. While the drummer and guitars had the correct Man At C&A look, the bass player had either missed the memo or just hadn't bothered. He looked like he'd stepped out of some late 90s nu-metal band complete with inappropriate metal band bass. While I don't expect obsessive attention to detail with the instruments, if you are tributing someone with an iconic look and performance then IMO you really need to make more of an effort at least with the clothes. I don't know if he was a stand-in for their regular bass player (I don't think so), but absolutely nothing about him including his playing style was in any way reminiscent of Peter Hook. He may have played mostly the right notes but the feel was wrong and this was especially noticeable on Transmission and Love Will Tear Us Apart. If I was in this band I'd have been embarrassed to have been seen on stage with him. I think for this band in particular they had made the basic mis-assumption that Joy Division songs are easy to play. Admittedly by the time of Ian Cutis' demise the band were still quite basic in their general musical abilities, but they had each developed a unique playing style that can make covering the songs properly less than straight forward. So while the singer's performance was obviously the product of hours in front of the mirror, the others really hadn't done their homework. The guitar was much too distorted most of the time, and the drummer was noticeably struggling with the 16ths hi-hat patterns and the more up-tempo songs. For all his other faults the bass player had a reasonably authentic tone, but only because the venue's bass amp wasn't working and so I let him use my bass rig and had him going through my slightly modified version of Peter Hook's actual "Salford Rules" Helix Patch. Otherwise he would have been going straight into a standard bass amp or direct to the PA with no effects. So as a musician, a fan of the original band and their bass player in particular, am I being too critical? The rest of the audience seemed to like them well enough. As an audience member what should I expect from a tribute band? Should it be as close as possible to going to see the "real thing" both musically and visually? I'm happy for the bands to take advantage of advances in technology to make the performance sound better. I certainly don't want the typical late 70s and early 80s live experience of ropy FoH sound and almost inaudible vocals that plagued most of the gigs I went to in smaller venues at the time. However I'm someone who thinks that the visual aspect of a gig is probably as important as the musical one. If the tribute band haven't made the effort to at least wear the right clothes, does that not simply make them a covers bands with a very limited repertoire? I know that there's a number of you on here who play in tribute bands. How far musically and visually do you think you need to go? What does your audience think? Are you genuinely fans of the original band or is it just another paying gig? Other than my gripes about the band that started this all off, I'm trying not to be critical but to understand what a tribute band audience actually want.

I currently play in two goth/post-punk bands, say to more... In the 80s I was in a synth-pop band a while the tunes were up-tempo and some were even in a major key, the lyrical matter was unrelentingly dark. Songs about war, suicide, awful religious attitudes to disability, drug addiction, stalking and other less than healthy obsessions and generally futility of existence.

One of the main features of Fenders is that they were designed to be able to be made (and sold) cheaper than Gibsons and Rickenbackers.

If this bass is in otherwise good original condition - especially if it it still has the Shaftesbury branded TRC - it is probably worth more than £100. Unless you intend to keep it forever and gig it regularly, any modifications you make (especially non-reversible ones) will devalue it should you ever want to resell it and you'll probably find yourself mocked in the eBay forum on this site should you do so. Without seeing the actual bass it's impossible to give a 100% definitive answer, but I'd consider getting the pickup issues sorted out in the least intrusive way possible, and if it then turns out to be not for you, you should make a decent profit when you sell it which will allow you to get something that you will use. Paging @Bassassin

And just to prove there is always an exception to the rule: I've been fitting Schaller Straplocks to my instruments since the mid 80s and have never had one fail. I've owned one bass that had Dunlops fitted from the factory and one of them failed terminally within 3 months of buying the bass. They were replaced with a set of Schallers before the next gig. The majority of problems with Schallers that I have seen reported are down to either user error or expecting poorly-made counterfeit items to withstand the same use as the real thing.

But the OP has already fitted the Schaller. Besides the Dunlops aren't any better, just different.

How good are your IEMs? Many cheap drivers exhibit harmonic peaks which make some notes sound out of tune. The last place I worked had a nasty radio/CD system with terrible speakers. Some CDs just sounded horribly out of tune when played on it.

If the drop tune is done by digital processing, the laws of physics are going to be against you no matter how or what you play.

I think in this case events have just conspired against us when playing at this venue. On the previous occasion the weather was atrocious. At least one of the band who had been booked to play the night before our gig had been unable to get there due to being snowed in. This time around our gig coincided with THE main goth/post-punk event the month - Carpe Noctum in Leeds at the Lending Room, and while there is a healthy audience for our music in the North of England, and I know that as a punter if I had to choose between 3 or 4 reasonably well-known bands at an excellent venue in Leeds complete with a great club night after the live music, or 2 bands (only one I'd heard of) in the back room of a pub in Gateshead, I know which gig I'd be favouring. If I was a promoter I wouldn't be putting on a goth gig the same night as Carpe Noctum unless it was for some really well-known band at a venue in London.

Are you sure that you've only transposed that up 1 semi-tone. The singer sounds like Mini Mouse, compared with the version I'm vaguely familiar with. Even if you do work out the key for the main part of the song, how do you know that it doesn't change for this particular part or that a note from outside of the key was used because it sounded better? Use your ears and play the notes that you think sound right.

Unless you are intending to create new parts for the song rather than following what's on the definitive recording, does it matter?

Next gig for me is with In Isolation at Ivory Blacks in Glasgow on Saturday 18th May, supporting Joy Division tribute band "Shadowplay".

Looking at the video, if it's not possible to make the back and front joint up, then I wouldn't both with the back at all. Leave it plain white and maybe extend the checks from the front a bit further around the sides.