BigRedX

How tight a fit is that Peerless? I think the ES 335 has a larger body. Warwick make a gig bag to fir their StarBass. That would definitely be big enough. However IMO the quality is sadly lacking as mine is falling apart after only 2 years of moderate use. Plus the straps are rubbish.

The Epiphone Pro-VI might be a Gibson in almost everything but name, but then even the current Gibson model doesn't have that much in common with the original 1960s models - different pickups, hardware and IIRC the necks on the current model have more laminations than the originals... BTW Fender enthusiasts looking for a Thunderbird should keep an eye out for the Epiphone non-reverse re-issue, which is essentially a Fender Jazz in almost everything (construction, woods, pickups etc.) except the shape.

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1495837512' post='3307054'] Does anyone have an opinion on these ? Tried one in Matlock music shop today and was quite taken - but not enough to bust my quota [/quote] Which version? Epiphone currently make 3 different Thunderbirds that have little in common in terms of construction and electronics. There's more to a bass guitar despite gin than just the shape.

[quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1495727820' post='3306190'] series with opposite magnet poles on two of them (bit like a deconstructed humbucker) [/quote] If all the coils are different impedances in order to balance the string volume will it be completely humbucking?

That I like the music. IMO pretty much everything else can be fixed later once I'm in the band, but if I don't like the music then it's definitely not for me.

You need to tackle one "problem" at a time or you'll never get a set up you are happy with. Get the bridge in the correct place so that the notes produced by fretting the strings at the 12th fret and their harmonics at the same position are the same, and then (and only then) if the notes in the first and second fret positions are still out of tune have a look at the nut.

There's nothing wrong with either recording all at the same time live in the room or building up a track instrument by instrument, or any method in between. The trick is to find the way that suits the band the best. There are different skills a band needs to be able to make the best of whichever method they choose. If you are going to record live the band needs to be so well rehearsed that they can nail the song in a couple of takes. Alternatively if you are going to build up the track an instrument at a time each musician need to be able to play their part without necessarily being able to hear cues from the other instruments that they might normally rely on. Both are skills that need to be worked on long before the band sets foot in the studio. Whichever method you choose, I wouldn't even consider recording to tape any more. The downsides, especially with multi-track tape, more than outweigh any (imagined) sonic benefits. I see too many studios who've installed a tape machine for that "old school" vibe, but either haven't got the skills or can't afford to keep it properly maintained and aligned, and don't have the rack of Dolby A modules that you need to keep tape hiss in check. Doing anything other than pressing record at the start, and stop at the end of your perfect take is a complete hassle and very time consuming. Things that takes seconds on a DAW like setting punch in and out points for an overdub or removing an unwanted noise at the beginning of an otherwise perfect recording will take minutes at best using tape (out of time you as a band are paying for) and if the engineer gets it wrong there is no undo button. You may find, like I have several times in the past, having to go back and do the whole track again because the wrong thing as been inadvertently wiped. On top of that, if you aren't going to simply copy all the tape tracks into your DAW once tracking is over (in which case your studio might as well just invest in a good tape saturation plug in), the studio is going to need racks of outboard gear to process everything. Even if you do at lot of it at tracking the studio is going to need a compressor/limiter and gate on every mic at the very least. All that hardware doesn't come cheap and really if the studio cares about the sound they are going to want quality outboard with valves and opto-compressors. A handful of Behringer MDX2600s isn't going to cut it. And unless the studio has a very expensive analogue automated mixing desk, any mix is going to have to be done live, which can be as much a performance as playing the song in the first place. Also making adjustments to that mix at a later date will involve setting it up from scratch all over again. You had better hope that the studio took notes of every channel setting if you want to do this. Having gone through the rigmarole of multi-track tape recently, the only way I'd consider recording to tape again would be if was with a brilliantly rehearsed band going live direct to a mono or stereo master. In that case the performance of the producer/engineer on the desk would be just as critical as that of any of the musicians - perhaps more so since they won't have had the luxury of weeks of practice to learn the song and what needs to be done when it terms of riding the faders and adjusting the outboard as the band plays. Having said all that I don't necessarily see a studio recording as an excise in trying to achieve perfection, but at the same time I don't want to be left with errors in the recording that could and ought to have been fixed. For me multi-tracking and using a DAW to capture the performance(s) gives the ultimate in flexibility. The things that you do want to change can be done quickly and easily. Finally, of the [url=https://terrortones.bandcamp.com]four Terrortones releases[/url], 3 were recorded as live performances with a few vocal, guitar and theremin overdubs and one was built up one instrument at a time. I would defy anyone to pick out which was the assembled recording.

[quote name='PawelG' timestamp='1495563900' post='3304905'] So, you reckon that getting this kind of tone in a live situation would be rather difficult? [/quote] IMO what makes a great bass tone is not the sound of the bass on its own (as the clip in the OP brilliantly demonstrates when it gets to the bass "solo" later in the piece, and the tone is completely "meh" compared with how brilliantly it fits when the whole band is playing), but how it fits in with the other instruments in the arrangement. This is one of the reasons why chasing a great tone you've heard on a recording is for most people a futile exercise, because the rest of musicians you'll be playing with don't sound like the other musicians on the record, so even if you do manage to completely copy the sound of the recorded bass, it won't sit properly because the other instruments sound different. So what you should do instead is listen to the recording and identify what it is about how the bass fits into the sonic space and then replicate that with the musicians you are playing with. In this case it underpins the whole track with the occasional accented notes that pop out. Copy the feel rather than the sound and listen to the tones the other musicians you are playing with are using and pick one for yourself that compliments those. Of course there's no way of knowing how much of that is down to the skill and technique of the player and how much is down to EQ and level automation in the DAW.

[IMG]http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n249/BigRedX/product-steel01b_zps7xnzqksp.jpg[/IMG]

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1495560236' post='3304853'] You don't see these for sale very often. [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mid-80s-Staccato-MG-Bass-Guitar-Original-Hard-Case-Pearl-White-/132196649956?hash=item1ec788cbe4:g:oHUAAOSwurZZHdWh"]http://www.ebay.co.u...HUAAOSwurZZHdWh[/url] [/quote] That's only the second one I've seen in the last 10 years.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1495548427' post='3304658'] Yes, I know there's a special section for 'Recording'. I felt this deserved a wider audience. [/quote] Which is odd because it has been [url=http://basschat.co.uk/topic/304462-sound-on-sound-article/]posted before[/url] and in this very section.

[quote name='PawelG' timestamp='1495552837' post='3304723'] It was recorded in a homemade studio - says on the album. [/quote] It doesn't matter kind of studio it was recorded in. You don't know what processing has been applied to the bass after it has been recorded to tape, hard disk etc. And there will have been a lot of it. [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1495554011' post='3304741'] As long as the playing is right, it doesn't matter what gear the bassist is using. An engineer with a good set of ears can polish up the sound of any bass with the facilities of even the smallest studio. [/quote] Exactly.

[quote name='PawelG' timestamp='1495358472' post='3303154'] I am just curious what has the biggest influence on that particular tone. [/quote] The studio.

These sorts of tours only work on the assumption that the drum kit and backline will be provided by the "local" band(s). I had a quick look to see who the bands were, and I'd not heard of any of them, but I suspect that they have a following in their niche genre. If this is anything like the gigs I've done supporting bands from outside of the UK the only money being made will be from the sales of merchandise and that is unlikely to cover the cost of getting the bands over in the first place. The touring bands do it because it is for them a low cost way of playing to new audiences and travelling to different countries. The local bands do it because hopefully it will put them in front of people who haven't seen them play before and there is always the possibility that they will be invited back to play in the US, where they will be the ones borrowing the drum kit and backline. Also IME the touring bands tend to be extremely grateful that someone is prepared to lend them the equipment to play through and very respectful of it. After all with no local support and therefore no gear there is no gig.

[quote name='owen' timestamp='1495549638' post='3304682'] It does not have to have the fifth of the chord innit. Sorry, I am just going outside for a word with myself. [/quote] But IME the 5th is what makes it sound so good. If was going to loose a note in a chord it would always be the 3rd because it nearly always sounds out of tune to me, but in this case it's already been replaced by much sweeter sus 4th.

[quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1495547181' post='3304645'] Yup - Mick will be able to hit the audience with a G9sus4 when they are least expecting it... [/quote] That would be unexpected - especially considering that it's a 5-note chord. ;-)

TBF this is pretty standard practice when playing with bands from outside of the UK. The only time the band I've been playing with hasn't been expected to supply the full backline and drum kit in this situation was when we were supporting a German Rockabilly band that came over in a mini tour bus with all their gear and their own PA engineer. At least they aren't completely taking the piss like The Meteors who turned up to a gig with a guitar and a snare drum (and a van load of T-shirts to sell) and expected to be able to borrow all the other gear including an upright bass! On the other hand some more notice/confirmation of the situation than on the day of the gig would have been nice.

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1495521845' post='3304335'] How many here were happy with one bass until they joined BC? [/quote] I had been slowly building up my collection of basses through eBay when I discovered TalkBass and BassWorld (BassChat's forerunner) while I was looking for more information about Spalt Basses. At the time I had just got back to playing bass after about 5 years of being the guitarist in my then most recent band, and had also discovered fretless bass. In many ways, it was the other way around for me. I was interested in getting more bass guitars and in the course of looking for more information on those I like the look of, I found the bass forums. I don't think that BassChat contributed significantly to the growth of my bass collection. I've always owned lots of instruments when finances have allowed, be they guitars, synthesisers or basses.

I quite like it, but for £8500 second hand I'd expect the decorative top/back to carry on around the sides in order to hide the bland core body wood. And do something about the horrible stripy neck too!

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1495538590' post='3304521'] Clearly this is going to vary from region to region, and the type of gigs and venues involved. But there are lots of bands and bass players who would love your situation to apply to them too! That said, just because there is a house PA and soundman doesn't mean they will get a good sound... For those of us who play solely on backline, the dispersion of our bass cab(s) remains an important consideration. [/quote] The Terrortones played all over the country, and with that one exception (and the house party mentioned earlier in this thread) in every case a PA and engineer were supplied at the gig. I see that as another reason not to go back to playing covers. I like the idea of, if necessary, being able to rock up at a venue 15-20 minutes before the band is due to be playing, and not have to be there from the early evening onwards spending ages pissing about setting up and later breaking down the PA and lights (which was my experience of playing in a covers band).

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1495534587' post='3304469'] I don't think it's quite as simple as that. It's probably almost always true that people who use a professional sound engineer will be steered towards a proper front of house mix, with stage levels kept as low as possible and backline as monitors only. For pub gigs (and the like) even with your own PA pragmatism rules. With no-one mixing out front many of the advantages of 'everything through the PA' will have gone. A full mix means miking up the drums, with a lot of extra complexity, and small venues don't demand high levels to fill the room so the onstage levels are bearable. With often one poor band member setting up the PA time to set up and knock down needs to be reduced, so even if the PA is up to it you won't necessarily put anything more than vocals through. Stage space and access for loading become issues too. Keeping it simple makes a sensible compromise Personally I've a range of PA including a choice of multiple tops and subs available. I've used my biggest set up with up to 2,000 people so it's adequate for most things. I don't use the full set up down at the Dog and Duck and most of the times it's everything mixed to the drums (heavy sticks confiscated ) and just vocal PA through the smallest lightest tops. I could put bass through the tops and that'd be my first choice but the rest of the band (drummers especially) usually like a lot of bass so I end up with backline I could do way better mixing out front and cutting the backline out of the vocal mics but the places we play wouldn't stand the cost of a sound engineer and wouldn't thank you for setting up whist they are finishing serving food, we still get compliments on our sound from time to time. [/quote] My own experience of playing in originals bands over the last 8 years is that in almost every case* there is an in-house PA system with an engineer. The majority of these venues are no different in size to the average covers band pub gig but the PA supplied will always be adequate enough for the kick and snare drum (at a minimum) too be mic'd up and the bass to be DI'd. As I've said previously, several of the most recent gigs I have played, I have been asked to turn down my rig to such an extent, that I have relied on the wedge monitors in order for me (and the rest of the band) to be able to hear any bass guitar. In these instances the dispersion characteristics of the bass cabs have become completely irrelevant. *In fact the only time I can recall there being no PA with the venue, was one where between the gig being booked and actually occurring the pub in question had undergone a refurbishment that had included removing the in-house PA system and not replacing it.

IME any low B with a gauge of less than 125 will feel too floppy unless the break angles on the bridge and nut give it a lower than normal compliance.

Since in this case the filter is being used to cure an audio problem as opposed to being an effect, the steeper 24db/oct slope ought to give better results.

I'm assuming that bassists who aren't being put through the PA are playing in bands that own their own system?

I saw both Bauhaus and Classix Nouveaux at the Ad-Lib club in Nottingham within a couple of weeks of each other in 1980 and from what I recall both bands looked a lot weirder than their record company approved sanitised publicity shots shown in the link.