BigRedX

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1445510256' post='2891977'] Well yes but you're not playing dad rock covers in pubs, I've never been asked where my fender is either... [/quote] But I have in the past. I mostly used the Overwater and the Gus plus the Pedulla and the Sei when I needed a fretless bass.

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1445510059' post='2891976'] depends on the type of gig, if you're out to specifically to see a certain band you like, yes you'll stand and listen (IMO if there's time to talk between songs the band is messing about too much) but if you've popped into the local music venue it's different, just because people are talking doesn't mean they're not enjoying the gig, if folk are out with friends they want to chat and enjoy the atmosphere of a live gig, that's why if a band is too loud, if people can, they'll stand round the corner or go into a different room if possible [/quote] If I'm at a music venue I am there to see/hear the band. If I went to a pub and there was a band on who I wasn't expecting, unless they were playing music that I liked and wanted to listen to, I'd probably go elsewhere to do my drinking and talking.

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1445462442' post='2891736'] I think talking about the music, saying "that was nice", or I liked that song", or maybe "the bass player is good isn't he ?", is ok. [/quote] IME there are plenty of opportunities to talk in-between the songs or before and after the set. As an audience member I'm far too interested in LISTENING TO THE MUSIC whilst it is happening to want to talk over/through it.

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1445410556' post='2891202'] Yes of course it would, but would the tone suit rock covers? Plus you'd have punters asking where your fender was after every gig. I'd go for P bass in that situation. [/quote] In 35 years of gigging I have never once been asked by either the band or the audience where my Fender bass was. Over the years my main choice of basses have been: Burns Sonic, Overwater Original, Gus G3, Warwick Star Bass, Wesley Acylic, Pedulla Buzz and Sei Flamboyant - not a Fender or Fender-alike among them. I did have a Squier VMJ Fretless for a short while, but it get quickly replaced by the Pedulla Buzz. The band I was in at the time mentioned how much better my sound and playing was since I got the "new bass".

No Greenslade?

Maybe it's bit more coherent and interesting written down, but I tried watching the actual lecture last year when it was broadcast and had to give up as Iggy Pop's delivery was so irritating. It doesn't matter how important your message is if you can't deliver it properly then you won't reach your audience. This year's lecture by Brian Eno was far more interesting and well delivered.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1445448499' post='2891599'] I actually think Adam Clayton is great in U2... is he great anywhere else..?? Well, no one is calling him and he doesn't need them too either but he does a good job there, IMO. I'll throw this one in though as I've said it before. Verdine White fits the bill of the OP, IMO [/quote] You only need to be "versatile" if you're not earning enough money from just being in one band.

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1445435673' post='2891460'] I actually find it quite annoying sometimes when I see a gig, and can't hear what I'm saying to people. [/quote] When you go to a gig you should be listening to the band, not talking.

[quote name='Low End Bee' timestamp='1445346738' post='2890729'] I'm with Xilddx's reply earlier in the thread. Only a few bass players care if the bloke on the big guitar can do a zillion note per second arpeggio or are playing in the phrygian dominant scale or what have you. The rest of the audience are listening to the song as a whole and enjoyimg it or not on its merits. I still don't get how Adam Clayton is 'bad'? I don't like U2 but he seems like he's doing exactly what they need and loads of people love them. [/quote] Completely this!!

[quote name='NickD' timestamp='1445325907' post='2890496'] It was FGTH, they'd got everything but didn't play too well & the Blockheads were his go to session guys. [/quote] At the risk of injecting yet more life into this zombie thread, let me lay this urban myth to rest. From interviews with Trevor Horn and other engineers who were working at SARM at the time of FGTH, they were unhappy with the playing on "Relax" so they got the Blockheads in to re-do the instrumental parts. While the results were better technically they didn't have the right feel - does that make NWR a poor bass player since he didn't play what was required for the song ;-) Eventually the track was assembled in Page R on the Fairlight. Some of the individual notes used create the bass line might have been sampled from the Blockheads session but that hardly makes it NWR's playing. The actual performance came from whoever did the programming - most likely one of The Art Of Noise.

Neither. For me the USP of ACG is the multi-coil humbuckers and the filter pre-amp. I'm sure that both basses are fine instruments, but for me they don't have the things that makes ACG special.

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1445173703' post='2889257'] Any sound, or even lack thereof (John Cage 4'33) could be considered musical. Again, it's in the ear of the beholder [/quote] And once again I need to point out that 4' 33" is not about the absence of sound but those sounds that would normally be masked by the performance.

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1445001991' post='2888074'] Thanks for the reply. It's the whole thing. The lecturer was trying to get us to solve a mathematical problem, tempos and milliseconds. I was like, whaaaaat ? One of my ex tutors from my BMus has recommended I start with Pure Data first, and then move onto Max. I'll try that. Though I fear my brain isn't designed for such things . [/quote] For a lot of electronic based composition understanding the relationship between tempos, milliseconds and musical note lengths is one of the basic things you need.

Another Interparcel/UPS user here. Pack it well, if it's not in a case then double-box it. Any courier service is only as good as its weakest link. My local driver is great but the pick-up point nearest to me is terrible. I've also had to make my first claim for a damaged item sent by Interparcel. It wasn't a bass but the claims procedure highlighted the necessity of good packing - they wanted to see photos of both the external box and all the internal padding packaging to ensure that the content had been protect as much as possible before settling.

[quote name='gelfin' timestamp='1444940421' post='2887595'] There are two of these hanging around in a shop in Bristol. [/quote] Original Ampegs or Bruce Johnson copies? Prices?

[quote name='Dapper Bandit' timestamp='1444895473' post='2887000'] Ishibashi are really good to deal with IME. Plenty of used Fender Japan stuff on their ubox (as mentioned earlier the head Fender office does not allow the international export of new models) and the second hand market in Japan seems to lean towards pricing surprisingly low compared to RRP and even light cosmetic damage / wear seems to absolutely smash prices! Even adding in import duties you can get one of these basses shipped to you for around about the same price as a used MIM with the added bonus of options that just aren't available to us normally and if you by through a reputable store you should get it in good - great condition. [/quote] I really don't get the obsession with trying to buy Japanese Fenders from Ishibashi. For me they are the least interesting instruments on the site. [quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1444910947' post='2887222'] For me the attraction of importing is to get something that isn't otherwise available. Cost wise, you're right that often you don't save much at all but the Japanese market tends to have a lot of things that are like hens teeth in Europe. [/quote] Exactly! Of the four basses I bought, 3 were simply not available outside of Japan and the other one although I had seen it for sale in a couple of UK shops the examples here were very expensive and not as well finished as the ones had previously seen in Japan. It's the same when I have bough instruments from the US. I see little point in trying to save money on getting something that is fairly easily available in the UK, because ultimately by the time you've paid shipping VAT and import duty the savings are negligible. For me it's all about buying used equipment that doesn't normally make it to this country.

[quote name='CHW' timestamp='1444906655' post='2887141'] I currently manage being in 2 bands- one does about 20 gigs a year (classic rock covers) where I play bass. The other is an acoustic duo playing guitar, working on some originals with mostly covers. This is a newer project and has done 6 gigs in the last year. However- we have already had a clash, and I went with the one booked in first. I know that if I reach a certain point, one band will have to go. The decision will be tough, but I already know what it will be. [/quote] This what happened to me. The surprising thing was it was the originals band that was getting more gigs and although the gigs themselves were less well paid, by the time I had taken into account the amount of extra time I spent on a covers gig helping to set up and break down the PA and lights plus the individual cost of doing the gig (transport plus maintenance and upgrading of the PA etc.), I was actually coming away with more money per gig in the originals band. Sometimes I really don't think the economics of the average covers band make sense when compared with a well-organised originals band, but that's probably a topic for another thread...

TrevorR pretty much nailed IMO. It's about consistency and rarity. The OP doesn't seem to be particularly enamoured with Wals but that's what made the second hand values so high. Until Paul Herman took over building them, it appeared as though there was going to be a finite supply. And with only a few different models having been produced, there was a consistency to the output so if you were looking at a second hand Wal you pretty much knew what to expect. Add to that a couple of high-profile musicians with very distinctive sounds using them, and the second hand values are bound to go up. Compare and contrast with Sei Bass. Beautifully hand-crafted instruments with stunning looks, but every single one is essentially a bespoke bass for the person who originally ordered it. Pick any two examples of the same model and they will have almost nothing in common other than the body shape. There's simply not enough consistency from one to the next for a some considering a second hand one to know what they are going to get. If you want a "boutique" bass that will hold its value it needs to have three things. 1. Be out of production or have an extremely long (18 months +) waiting list for a new one. 2. Have a good amount of consistency from one example of the same model to the next. 3. Have a few well know players with distinctive styles and sounds using them.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1444818801' post='2886292'] I think originals bands are a special case. Even if the band are not being paid, they need to make it worthwhile for the dep to work for them. That will include not only some kind of arrangement over the additional practices but probably purchasing stage wear for them. Most deps (I include myself) will be happy to wear whatever is specified for the 'performance'. However haircuts are whatever they are so you'd be better building a relationship with a set of first call deps who know what is being expected of them. [/quote] We wouldn't expect any dep we use to get all leathered up Terrortone style but when some of them can even follow a simple dress suggestion of "wear something black, no band T-shirts, no prominent brand logos, no trainers" it does make you wonder.

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1444846517' post='2886697'] [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EKO-Camac-THRU-NECK-Bass-Guitar-MADE-IN-JAPAN-Matsumoku-/121786774342?hash=item1c5b0eb346"]http://www.ebay.co.u...=item1c5b0eb346[/url] That looks a bit more like early Alembic neck throughs. Is it Matsumoku? It doesn't look it. I'm wondering if it's a bit more pizza than it is sushi. [/quote] I'm sure Bassassin's already commented on this and his verdict is that it is most likely Italian.

Remember though that 4' 33" is not about the "silence" but about the ambient noises that you wouldn't normally be able to hear because there would be music covering them up. Therefore every performance of it will be totally different.

We've had three dep guitarists and two drummers. We supplied them with studio recordings of the songs which meant that we had to temporarily drop some of the newer material and resurrect a couple of oldies as that was what we had available. The guitarists also had tabs for most of the songs that were done by a previous full time member who had produced them to originally learn the set and which he kindly donated to us when he had to leave the band. Interestingly the guitarists were all excellent and did it for free because they liked the music and wanted to help us out and do the gigs. Consequently one of them is now a full-time Terrortone. The drummers both wanted paying and were on the whole less good. And as I said previously one of them managed to mess up the single in two different ways on the two occasions he played it.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1444813586' post='2886206'] *Awaits backlash from 'song-interpreters' and those who can't be bothered to learn the songs properly* Thhppp! Thpp!! [/quote] IMO unless every note in the bass line is clearly audible on the recording the only one who can definitely say what was played is the person who was actually in the studio playing it. Everyone else is just going to be a good guess. Besides bass lines evolve and change. Just listen to the studio recording of "The Boys Are Back In Town" and then compare that with what Phil Lynott actually plays on the live version...

Listen, listen and then listen some more. I get the basic root note sequence for the chords first and then work on the intricacies of the actual bass line from there. If I really can't hear what's going on at a particular point I'll make something up based on what happens at the points I can hear, safe in the knowledge that if I can't tell what the bass is doing no one else apart from the person who actually played on the recording will notice. Watch out for down tuning. If you find yourself needing low Eb and D and some of the runs seem very awkward to play then the song may well have been recorded with non-standard tuning. OTOH there's more than a few songs I know of that have been recorded with the guitars tuned to Eb which are easier to play with the bass left in standard tuning rather than down-tuned to match. On songs with prominent keyboard parts the perceived bass line may well be a combination of the bass guitar part and the keyboard. What you do in this situation will depend on the context you are going to be playing the son in. If you're doing it at home for your own enjoyment then simply listen to separate out the bass guitar from the keyboard part. In a band situation without the appropriate keyboard part you may well have to come up with a new bass line that incorporates the essential elements of both into a single part.

No originals band really wants to be in the position of needing to use a dep. However occasionally in order to take an important gig it is necessary to use one. These occasions IME are usually fairly isolated and almost always on pretty short notice. It isn't really possible to cultivate a relationship with the good dep players because if all goes well you probably won't be needing their services again and both the band and the dep knows this, and besides from my experience no matter how much you pay, they won't look right on stage despite having been informed about the band image and will make at least one horrendous error during the set normally on the most important song.