VTypeV4

I've downloaded AudioDesk 4 from the MOTU site (it didn't used to be but it's now free!) to see how it is for audio sequencing. As a test, I've recorded a band (live) this evening although I won't get chance to have a look at mixing it until early next week. It's a straight forward interface and vaguely resembles PT with each channel vertically presented on the 'mix' page. From top to bottom we have a number of inserts followed by sends with mutes and pre / post on each, a selection of 'buttons' with solo, mute, record-arm and monitor input functions. Beneath that there's a pan function (although this vanishes on OTB setups when the output is changed from main L/R on mono channels) with a balance indicator. Lastly there's a fader with a position indicator and at the bottom is the I/O config. On the 'edit' page, it's once again similar to PT with the recorded wave files shown on the horizontal axis with the channel info / routing as well as automation options on the left of each. It's easier to name the channels on this page too. There's also a third box which is multi configurable but I used it as a meterbridge to monitor the 12 or so channels I recorded this evening. Conveniently it shows level inputs with reasonably fast rise and fall balistics and has a clip inicator which stays on until it's reset. I'll make an ITB and OTB - the latter being my preferred method - patch to see how it goes both ways. The software comes with a number of plugins / fx built although I don't know if there's anymore that can be downloaded and integrated with it. Initial impressions are good with everything being roughly laid out in a reasonably logical manner and most things being where you'd expect them to be found. On the down side, I don't think it sequences midi and I believe it only works with Motu interfaces (although I could be wrong on both) but for my live recording setup, it seems to have worked without incident this evening. I'm going to have a closer look and get into it a bit more this week so I'll report back when I'm a bit more dialed in. I figure this thread may be useful for those using it in a similar way to myself especially as it's free software..

Familiar waters.. [url=https://flic.kr/p/YsqQKy][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/YsqQKy]Yamaha 02R returns[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/78773723@N02/]VTypeV4[/url], on Flickr

I know! Despite it's bulk, I'd be happy to take an 02R anywhere to do anything because of it's flexible internal struture and facilities. I know the 03D shares much of this but there's that thing in my head of me arriving somewhere to do something and having to compromise rather than doing the job properly on an 02R.. £180 sounds like a bargain but I'll stick with going back to the larger format machine.

Change is once again on the horizon.. I'm having the 02R I sold back in p/x for the 03D!

Thanks Mike, we'll see how it goes.

Well, I havent got a massive amount to say about it if i'm honest although I'll share a few observations.. 1: Gain.. The pre-amps seem to have a different structure and a I guess a clue to that is the different figure (26dB vs 20dB) on the pad compared to those on the 02R. It's not a problem as appropriate settings are easily dialed in but simply required the pot in a different position than that of the larger console. I tested microphones in channels 13 and 14 to see if I could coax enough gain to make them useable (channels 9-16 are line only really but are still a balanced input) and whilst are a little borderline (requiring a 3'o'clock position on the pot) attained an acceptable result without noise. Whether the noise would be acceptable in a recording environment, I couldn't say but live it wasn't noticeable. Lastly, the 60mm faders reduce resolution a little with small movements making more difference than I'm used to. Secondly they only operate to a maximum of +6 as opposed to the usual +10 at the top. Neither are deal breakers but just a little different than the norm.. 2: Effects.. They're a different set with different parameters than those on the 02R. Some of the reverb presets have the same patch names as in my REV 500 fx units and a number of the dual effect patches have more comprehensive parameters. There's also lesser spotted amp simulator and freeeze fx too. I haven't thoroughly gone through them but some of the stereo reverb / delay patches are very expansive creating a warm and large soundscape. 3: Navigation and control.. Something I didn't really notice at first but the lack of dedicated controls such as EQ and group assignments can slow things down a little. The jog wheel works in the same way but the navigation buttons and enter button are in a less 'comfortable' place positioned up on the the right rather than the lower right compared the 03Ds bigger brother. Again not really an issue in itself but the layout of the whole thing is a bit cramped. On the menu front, it's a little different again by the use of tabs along the top of the menu which is a nice touch and speeds navigation. To help further, a mouse can be plugged in so the tabs and parameters can be clicked directly rather than nav buttons, jog wheel and enter button. As for the rest of the console in terms of operation and sound, it's very much the same as the 02R. Gates, compressors and EQ have the same facilities and seem to react in the same manner. I did however read somewhere about 44 bit internal processing as opposed to 32 bit in the 02R but I can't hear any improvement or difference - it might not even be a thing anyways. Overall it's a very capable unit in a small footprint - theyre rackmountable with a kit - and some of the compromises are understandable. I'd rather take an 02R with the Unity card everytime (live, recording or otherwise) but as a little 'take anywhere, do anything' desk, it's a very useful tool.

[url="https://flic.kr/p/Y6qXDE"][/url][url="https://flic.kr/p/Y6qXDE"]03d test[/url] by [url="https://www.flickr.com/photos/78773723@N02/"]VTypeV4[/url], on Flickr [url=https://flic.kr/p/YpLG13][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/YpLG13]03d test[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/78773723@N02/]VTypeV4[/url], on Flickr 03D in service this evening - the 02Rs can be been looming in the background on the lower pic. Initial impressions are good as it's essentially a 'mini 02R' with some compromises / cuts but also some better ways of doing things. I'll discuss it in a little more detail tomorrow..

[quote name='mike257' timestamp='1504902460' post='3368259'] Doesn't the 03D have a desperate shortage of mic preamps? [/quote] Kinda.. It's a bit like the 02R with only half being on XLR but there's also no pad (also less than ideal) on the second half either. On a positive however, they're still a balanced input and seem to work with a mic plugged in to them. Obviously no phantom available and a little more gain required as it's like the pad is in all the time so potential for a little extra noise too although I've not yet found out if that's an issue. The 02R handles every dynamic mic I've ever plug into 9-16 and with 'shouty' bands I usually use the pad anyways.. I'll know more after a shakedown show on Wed (acoustic night) so we'll see. The jury is still out...

[quote name='planer' timestamp='1504706961' post='3366769'] Built-in toaster is a killer feature [/quote] Not forgetting the coffee pod holder either - both essential items on a gig!

[url=https://flic.kr/p/XS9PkL][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/XS9PkL]03d a[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/78773723@N02/]VTypeV4[/url], on Flickr [url=https://flic.kr/p/YfJk7T][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/YfJk7T]03d a[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/78773723@N02/]VTypeV4[/url], on Flickr [url=https://flic.kr/p/Yd7Gwm][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/Yd7Gwm]03d a[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/78773723@N02/]VTypeV4[/url], on Flickr Right money and local so I had it.. Will give it a full shake down next week although initial findings seem good!

I haven't looked at the AW in detail but I did have a look at the 01X although on closer inspection, iit looks to be a backwards step compared to the MOTU / Yamaha combo.. I'll keep my eye on ebay and see what crops up.

No worries Al.. It does indeed have the 60mm faders of the AW (and of the early 01V too) and are cheap as chips - < £200. I recently sold my 'spare' 02R as part of a deal for a bike. I'm considering I could do with a replacement and the 03D may be in the frame as it's much less cumbersome than an 02R with many of the same features. The obvious answer is to grab another 02R or possibly a 328XD but the temptation of something different for mobile / location work is attractive.. It's a real shame the 03D doesn't support the Unity card - that would be a killer mini setup.

I probably should have started a new thread but thought it was applicable here too.. Just a quick one - Has anyone used an 03D in any capacity?

[url=https://flic.kr/p/X8mjbn][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/X8mjbn]Fuzz 02R[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/78773723@N02/]VTypeV4[/url], on Flickr Trying the Flickr soltion also..

I've been a long time user of trace gear - from a boxer 30 practice to the big daddy (at the time), the 600SMX and my current V4.. I'd say £800 would get you a long way towards a monster rig! For me, pick of the bunch of the 'traditiional' rigs would be the 400SMX head as it's superbly powerful / loud combined with the 12 band EQ and dual band compressor. They also have the very cool UV light which still look awesome. As suggested, the cabs are showing their age a bit by now so personally, I'd buy a head and run it with newer speakers. There's nothing wrong wiith the old cabs but they're very heavy and bulky allthough they do have a certain sound to them which you may or may not like. One of the best weight / bulk / output rigs I had was the 300SMX with 2103H (2x10) and 1153 (compact 1x15) which really was an awesome little stack. I have considered re-creating it as took a small footprint. Most of the combos are pretty good although the older two-tens may not play quite as loudly without complaint as newer versions or other companies models. The single fifteens are solid - the 715 I had worked very well indeed despite an apparent low (150w) power rating. I also had a V-Type 4808 (300w 4x8) which was a lovely sounding thing but my fave combo was probably a Twin Valve which was an all valve 100w 1x15. As with anything just go try one and see how you go - it might be for you or you might think they're horrible.

Sorry for the loss of images on the thread - I refuse to pay the $399 Photobucket ransome.. [url=https://postimg.org/image/7v5d1s9z7/][/url] Just testing a new solution..

My step dad had a proamplifiers VSQ65 guitar amplifier years ago.. It was an all valve 65w 1x12 combo, multi-channel boogie-esque type thing that was well built, sounded excellent and weighed a ton. Mr Foxen had the 150w head version for sale a while back. I know nothing of the bass model described above but i'm reasonably sure they're had nothing to do with Trace although I'm happy to be proved wrong on that..

Never had an amp but use two Goliath Jr 3 cabiinets (2x10) which are awesome - light by standards - heavy by todays but they're beautiful sounding and well made. Be aware O/E drivers are diifficult to come by and there's mixed opinion on alternative solutions..

Mastering is a tough one.. I agree that you could blitz a track in 15 minutes but the chances of it coming out to potential seems unlikely - like a mix, if you rush it, it'll show in the end product.. I usually (although not always) use a two stage process one with hardware (TC Finalizer in the 02R) and the second with software (Ozone Izotope) and I'm usuallly happy with the result - as are the clients - but it can be really easy to over or indeed under-do the processing.. Starting with a proper mix does make the whole process a far more pleasant one but even then, it's not something to be rushed or forced - it's easy to ruin something that was great before you started.. Just my opinion, of course.. Sorry to the O/P, I don't reallly have time to have a pop at your track but hope the other offers here yeild a top result.

[URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/DSC_0339_zpskl4oydyu.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/DSC_0339_zpskl4oydyu.jpg[/IMG][/URL] 02Rs in service this evening - just console B (main live desk) actually doing any work in the picture although I'd done some work a little earlier with console A on a recording from last night. I'll post the finished track when it's completed sometime next week.

Interesting - especially compared to some of those other consoles. The only analogue console I've used that comes close to the ML is a Soundcraft GB8 although to be fair, it's been a long time since I used one. I think the last time was when the GL went for service and new faders so it's certainly a number of years ago.. I also remember being a little disappointed when I first used the GL after a break from it whilst I was getting used to my 328XD - it sounded very odd by comparison. I love the GL and but the ML will almost certainly kick it's ass. I'm a little surprised the ML out ranks the GS3000 too - I'd always thought these were meant to be the pinnacle and they were on my list as a maybe before the ML was purchased.. I'd love to try (or maybe I wouldn't!) a Soundcraft MH4 or Series 5 as they have a very similar feature set just to see how well they compare to the ML. And a Yamaha M3000A (these seem to have a very poor reputatiion) plus the well respected PM3500 / 4000.. I agree about the cost of things currently - lots can be had for very little! You and I have had true bargains with these ML range desks especially consideriing it's not actually that long since they were current models. I remember a conversation I had with Dave at Bullet Sound probably ten / twelve years ago when they still had their ML5K (32 frame) and him telling me they were getting rid of it. Knowing it had cost upwards of £20K or thereabouts, I asked what he expected to get for it and him saying he'd be happy with 10 - 12 grand.. Madness! I paid £1125 for my 48 frame including the two RPS14 supplies and the flight case. Absolute madneess! [URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/DSC_0337_zpsopudkngy.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/DSC_0337_zpsopudkngy.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/DSC_0336_zpsoty8wbev.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/DSC_0336_zpsoty8wbev.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/DSC_0335_zpsaerhi4nx.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/DSC_0335_zpsaerhi4nx.jpg[/IMG][/URL] With regards to automation, we're largely doing it on the software although for a few things, it's had a few of us riding the faders as the pre-master track records in real time. The VCA control does help not chasing the channel faders round for 'manual' automation - I've used it quite a bit more than I thought I would.

All good stuff there, Al - particularly love the tape machine.. I assume you're pleased with your ML - I've done a few things on my 5K now - no recording though, just mixes, although I really can't fault mine at all. It just kind of ticks all the boxes that a premium console should without difficulty or drama. I can't say it offers a great deal of sonic character but it's exceptionally clean and 'transparent' which allows the detail in a mix to shine through - I don't feel there's any 'smearing' or that it imparts any unpleasant sonic artifacts whatsoever.. How do you think your 3000 compares to the Yamaha? Personally vs my 5000, I think it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. Without meaning to sit on the fence, I think they're different beasts and offer different features (plus my limited outboard is a consideration) so how I approach a mix on the ML is different than that I would on the 02Rs. I should take the same song and do a mix on both then A/B the results maybe..

Done..

A pic of the rack gear currently in use with the ML.. From top to bottom: Yamaha REV500 Yamaha SPX90 (i) Yamaha SPX90 (iii) Behringer MDX2200 (1) Behringer MDX2200 (2) Behringer MDX2200 (3) Behringer MDX2200 (4) I also have a spare comp and gate that I'm not currently using but they're not pictured. [url="http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/DSC_0324_zpsbrgjbyoe.jpg.html"][/url] All working very well indeed - I love it! Still looking out for more compressors and FX as and when but this is cool for now..

I bought a second REV500 although this one is to go with th ML5K setup so I now have the two SPX90s and the new REV500 plus 10 channels of behringer MDX series compression.. [URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/DSC_0321_zpsliazdy2u.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/DSC_0321_zpsliazdy2u.jpg[/IMG][/URL] I'm still liking the idea of a pair of Klark Teknik DN504s too - most likely used as buss compressors.. Al, if you get chance, stick a pic of your ML on.