VTypeV4

Mastering is a tough one.. I agree that you could blitz a track in 15 minutes but the chances of it coming out to potential seems unlikely - like a mix, if you rush it, it'll show in the end product.. I usually (although not always) use a two stage process one with hardware (TC Finalizer in the 02R) and the second with software (Ozone Izotope) and I'm usuallly happy with the result - as are the clients - but it can be really easy to over or indeed under-do the processing.. Starting with a proper mix does make the whole process a far more pleasant one but even then, it's not something to be rushed or forced - it's easy to ruin something that was great before you started.. Just my opinion, of course.. Sorry to the O/P, I don't reallly have time to have a pop at your track but hope the other offers here yeild a top result.

[URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/DSC_0339_zpskl4oydyu.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/DSC_0339_zpskl4oydyu.jpg[/IMG][/URL] 02Rs in service this evening - just console B (main live desk) actually doing any work in the picture although I'd done some work a little earlier with console A on a recording from last night. I'll post the finished track when it's completed sometime next week.

Interesting - especially compared to some of those other consoles. The only analogue console I've used that comes close to the ML is a Soundcraft GB8 although to be fair, it's been a long time since I used one. I think the last time was when the GL went for service and new faders so it's certainly a number of years ago.. I also remember being a little disappointed when I first used the GL after a break from it whilst I was getting used to my 328XD - it sounded very odd by comparison. I love the GL and but the ML will almost certainly kick it's ass. I'm a little surprised the ML out ranks the GS3000 too - I'd always thought these were meant to be the pinnacle and they were on my list as a maybe before the ML was purchased.. I'd love to try (or maybe I wouldn't!) a Soundcraft MH4 or Series 5 as they have a very similar feature set just to see how well they compare to the ML. And a Yamaha M3000A (these seem to have a very poor reputatiion) plus the well respected PM3500 / 4000.. I agree about the cost of things currently - lots can be had for very little! You and I have had true bargains with these ML range desks especially consideriing it's not actually that long since they were current models. I remember a conversation I had with Dave at Bullet Sound probably ten / twelve years ago when they still had their ML5K (32 frame) and him telling me they were getting rid of it. Knowing it had cost upwards of £20K or thereabouts, I asked what he expected to get for it and him saying he'd be happy with 10 - 12 grand.. Madness! I paid £1125 for my 48 frame including the two RPS14 supplies and the flight case. Absolute madneess! [URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/DSC_0337_zpsopudkngy.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/DSC_0337_zpsopudkngy.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/DSC_0336_zpsoty8wbev.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/DSC_0336_zpsoty8wbev.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/DSC_0335_zpsaerhi4nx.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/DSC_0335_zpsaerhi4nx.jpg[/IMG][/URL] With regards to automation, we're largely doing it on the software although for a few things, it's had a few of us riding the faders as the pre-master track records in real time. The VCA control does help not chasing the channel faders round for 'manual' automation - I've used it quite a bit more than I thought I would.

All good stuff there, Al - particularly love the tape machine.. I assume you're pleased with your ML - I've done a few things on my 5K now - no recording though, just mixes, although I really can't fault mine at all. It just kind of ticks all the boxes that a premium console should without difficulty or drama. I can't say it offers a great deal of sonic character but it's exceptionally clean and 'transparent' which allows the detail in a mix to shine through - I don't feel there's any 'smearing' or that it imparts any unpleasant sonic artifacts whatsoever.. How do you think your 3000 compares to the Yamaha? Personally vs my 5000, I think it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. Without meaning to sit on the fence, I think they're different beasts and offer different features (plus my limited outboard is a consideration) so how I approach a mix on the ML is different than that I would on the 02Rs. I should take the same song and do a mix on both then A/B the results maybe..

Done..

A pic of the rack gear currently in use with the ML.. From top to bottom: Yamaha REV500 Yamaha SPX90 (i) Yamaha SPX90 (iii) Behringer MDX2200 (1) Behringer MDX2200 (2) Behringer MDX2200 (3) Behringer MDX2200 (4) I also have a spare comp and gate that I'm not currently using but they're not pictured. [url="http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/DSC_0324_zpsbrgjbyoe.jpg.html"][/url] All working very well indeed - I love it! Still looking out for more compressors and FX as and when but this is cool for now..

I bought a second REV500 although this one is to go with th ML5K setup so I now have the two SPX90s and the new REV500 plus 10 channels of behringer MDX series compression.. [URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/DSC_0321_zpsliazdy2u.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/DSC_0321_zpsliazdy2u.jpg[/IMG][/URL] I'm still liking the idea of a pair of Klark Teknik DN504s too - most likely used as buss compressors.. Al, if you get chance, stick a pic of your ML on.

I can't help with the transformer specs although I read something years ago about Demeter having something to do them? I might have made that up but it's ringing a bell.. On another note, I'd love to see the finished item when it's done and maybe a comparison with my V4 (it's a mk2 so has all the same bells and whistles as the V8) at some point.. Best of luck!

Some lovely pictures there, particularly loving those big '88s!

[quote name='Deedee' timestamp='1491081549' post='3270426'] No, but that doesn't make them any less capable. [/quote] So very true..

Sold my dual stack analog cards so when a Unity card comes up for a decent price, I'll swipe it and bring the 02R at home up to the same spec as the pair at work.. I tried this before but the card was a duff. https://www.facebook.com/Synkronizemedia/ Some newer and older stuff - all mixed on the 02R and all are live recordings ..

[URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/DSCN1156.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/DSCN1156.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Is that serious enough? It's rated for ~200w and has a jack socket speaker output.. There seems to be a lot of speculation and a little negativity regarding the Elf however, no-body has actually tried it under 'battle conditons' and those that have had a quick go seem to think it's actually quite good.. The manufacturers can't seem to be clear regarding their figures - for starters they all rate them differently as we well know. If Trace / Peavey would have put it out as a 500w or whatever amp, would it have made it a better product or just satisfied those who buy things because 'they're shiny'..? Or would it have been slated for being 'under-powered for it's rating'? Catch 22... I appreciate that a Speakon connector is a better option (at whatever 'power rating') generally but I really don't see what all the fuss about it is. If it was a 5kW pro-audio power amp then I would certainly question it but in this application, I just don't see the issue.. Personally, I have no desire to purchase the Elf or it's associated cabinets as I'm more than satisfed with my sound and setup - it just seems short-sighted to judge a book by it's cover and associated ISBN number without actually reading it..

Glad your initial impressions are positive, I hope you're as pleased with yours as I am mine..

Any word on the ML, Al?

I've said it a few times (but still haven't done anything about it!) about the CTM100 - they're about the only Ashdown that really interest me. I'd love an A/B with my Trace..

Spoke to the good people at A&H to find out a little more.. The ML range were produced from 2000 - 2010 and my example was built in Oct 2005. My email was promptly replied to (less than 24 hr) in a friendly and concise way. Top marks to Allen & Heath for customer service.

Excellent news!

[quote name='althemusicwizard' timestamp='1488275382' post='3247386'] What am I like......couldn't resist the temptation of this that appeared on Ebay last night....just did a Buy It Now. http://www.ebay.co.u...=p2047675.l2557 Now I'm trying the Fostex G24S, I wanted an all analogue signal path to see if I could tell the difference. From a lot of the digital desks I've used, the O2R has an analogue quality to it, probably because of the bunch of analogue circuitry in it. I've also got it hooked up to the Fostex in such a way that SMPTE timecode on track 24 is played into the SMPTE input on the O2R and the automation is synced. I also laid an FSK (Midi Clock with song position) code on track 23 and can sync Propellerhead's Reason to it too. This will be the fall back position should thML3000 not work out. I really like the facilities on the ML5000, but it's just too damn big. This way, I get the VCAs of the big brother minus the sweet EQ, but with the 0-400Hz HP (which I really think cleans a mix up), and only 40Kg. If I really want the automation, I have a Mackie Ultramix system that I was going to stick back on Ebay but I might just hang onto.Now I just to have to find a courier to collect it and drop it off here....the south coast is a long way to drive...... Al [/quote] [quote name='Huge Hands' timestamp='1488277972' post='3247423'] Wow, starting to sound like my old live rig from 14+ years ago! Memorieeeess!!! The SPX90's actually bring back horrible memories of me getting hooked on putting tap delay on certain vocal lines for effect to the point that everyone got sick of me! Totally. The thing I always preferred was the greater headroom on the input gains - if you had a sudden surge of sound from something, you were a lot less likely to get a horrible "clack" when you tickled a red light than you were with the Yamahas. We had several 02Rs and a budget Yamaha analogue desk (presumably all with the same analogue pre-amps), and they were all the same. That was the main bit that put me off the 02R. Obviously in studio world, you have more time to go back and deal with something like that! Good luck with your studio! [/quote] Al, I've nothing to say but wow! That's awesome! You must post some pix when it arrives! I agree about the sweepable HPF it really does help over a fixed 100Hz example. I know the EQ isn't as comprehensive as my 5000 but it's the standard issue A&H setup and the same as I used for many years on the GL. Also, I wouldn't consider it to be that much of a limitation as the sweeps have a very broad frequency range with the upper and lower more than overlapping the shelving filters - I never felt I was running out of steam with it. VCAs are very cool and they just make life easier and simpler once assigned to how you want them. I still grouped the channels out so I could do buss compression using the inserts but never really touched the faders - I simply left them at '0' and controlled the assignments from the VCA faders. Mute groups are handy too although I haven't used these much other than an 'all off' as on the 5000, muting the VCA group respectively mutes any channels assigned to it. I hope the 3000 works out for you, Al, they look a cracking desk - kinda halfway between the straight features of the GL2200 / 3300 combined with the functionality of the bigger brother ML4K and 5K. And in a movable frame size unlike mine! Best of luck! Mr HH, The SPX90s are venerable at best but I intend to combne them with a couple of TC M1 and a couple of REV500 units in the future. I too love a bit of crazy delay on a vocal where I can get away with it both live and in the studo! I've got my eye on some Klark Teknik DN504 for use as buss compressors with the ML - they're one of the few 4 channel compressors with adjustable envelope rather than non-adjustable attack / release. It's been suggested they're a bit 1176 style although how much thats true remains to be seen.. I don't tend to find the pre-amps in the 02R lacking in headroom although I tend to run them reasonably cool around -18 / -15dBFS or thereabouts. It equates to 'two oranges' on the meterbrdge and just feels right. Yamaha claim the clip light appears a few dB before any clipping actually happens at the analog stage but I'm not so sure either. It also seems to equate to an acceptable reecording level on the direct outs too. The ML seems to have plenty although I run this reasonably cool too - about 0 maybe +3 seems to be about right - I'm not a red light merchant by any means.. Thanks for the words of encouragement.

[URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/DSC_0298_zpsq0ifaemn.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/DSC_0298_zpsq0ifaemn.jpg[/IMG][/URL]N No better training than actually doing it! I sold the second 328XD to our keyboard player rather than having the fuss of eBay which was both convenient and will also help him with his other band. He has an interest in both recording and live sound so I figured the best way for him to learn to how to use his new purchase is to actually jump in at the deep end and use it. The photo was taken on Wednesday evening during our open mic evening which is often busy but doesn't have a mad channel count so is perfect to break him in.. He did very well and needed only a little guidance to navigate the console, keep level settings appropriate and maintain a decent mix. I know I moved on and upgraded my setup to 02Rs but the Soundcraft console mentioned here is very much an under-dog in my opinion. Their reputation was marred by the original 328 with it's troublesome PSU that wrecked itself and corrupted part of the boot process / operating system. The XD was a different beast having different main boards, different supply and a whole host of other changes as they look nothing like inside. They're a lovely console and so easy to use too.

Hey Al, thanks for taking the time to have a listen, It's appreciated. Broken gun is indeed me on the bass, glad that shone through! There were some compromises in recording the track plus the lack of outboard had me compromised a little at the mix stage too. With it being a 'group' effort rather than just me mixing, a couple of the things you've touched on might be changed on a do over - particularly the guitar bits. Overall I'm happy with it and it was also part of the 'lets see what the ML does' experiment. I do wonder how it might have come out differently if I'd have done the mix on an 02R at work where I've got the internal FX, dual M2000 Unity, a TC M1 and Yam REV500 plus all the dynamics I can shake a stick at.. I'm glad yoou liked the mix on Deep City - a few people have said exactly the same thing as you where they're not overly struck on the song but thougt it sounded lovely. They were a great band though, a really nice bunch of lads. The other tracks are older ones I've recorded at home over the last 15 years or so. They're all pretty much of the 'chillout' sort of vibe written, played and recorded by me. I don't sing or write lyrics as I just don't seem to have that particular ability. If you want to have a pop at something with 'Coastal' be my guest as it'd be very interestng to see someone elses take on it. It's something we've considered doing in the band but haven't gotten round to it yet.. Industry POD concept came from having a mess around with a DX-7 VST instrument (FM-7) and throwing a few industrial type sounds about. The glitch loops, the 303 loops and MS-20 (The MS-20 is a real '70s / '80s one - had it for years) just seem to naturally fit..

[quote name='althemusicwizard' timestamp='1487801209' post='3243139'] 250Kg!!!!!! Yikes. My back feels sore just thinking about that. [/quote] The next time it gets moved will be it's permanent living place!

This is the first full mix I used the ML for - Deluge - the only group I'm currently playing bass in.. https://soundcloud.com/vtypev4/broken-gun-master01 And one of the more recent live recordings on the 02Rs - this group were awesome, I really enjoyed mixing them live at the gig and a week or so later for this recording. https://soundcloud.com/vtypev4/deepcity-lr-02r

Sounds like you found a winner here, fella, nice one.

It's a bit more than three but not quite four 02Rs - it's a monster! It took four of us to get it up the stairs as it weighs ~250Kg in it's box! You can just about make out the outboard if you really squint - two Yamaha SPX90 and 3x Behringer MDX2200 plus a pair of ADA8000 connected to the MOTU 828x so I've got up to 26 channels out not including FX returns. It's funny how it's a different mind set than using the Yamahas..

So I did a bit more wiith the ML tonight.. [URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/DSC_0290_zpspfejuxxw.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/DSC_0290_zpspfejuxxw.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Not a great pic but you get the idea. I've really enjoyed working with the ML tonight, it's been a real pleasure working on one of our groups own tracks in a low pressure situation. The quality of the A&H is very impressive although I've never used anything bad by the boys in Cornwall. My outboard is a little on the budget side but it all works just fine and the results we have so far are very promising..