VTypeV4

I like the look of these although I usually prefer the control of input gain / master volume. Knowing EBS' usual high standards I bet these are a killer amp, I'd love to try one. The 90w rating doesn't put me off, I've gigged with less so it wouldn't be an issue.

Is it me or does this all seem a trifle ridiculous not to mention a waste of time?

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1386410812' post='2299728'] bang for buck, old trace elliot stuff.... [/quote] +1 Any of the bigger ones, GP11 500 and later 400 / 600 SMX or AH500 - 12 are pretty pokey. My vote would be for the 400..

The old Trace Elliot V-Type pre-amp was lovely and woorked really well for me. I didn't have the rack unit but had a 4808 combo and a V4. The tone circuit is apparerently the old Fender design which pretty much works as well today as it ever did..

These will be going into a DIY cab when they're back from re-cone.. Not sure if to go for direct radiating or horn plus HF component tho. [URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/GoodmansPair_zps4d0bdb00.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/GoodmansPair_zps4d0bdb00.jpg[/IMG][/URL] I tried these for a bit but they were a bit too old fashioned. The one with the EV sounded better. Sold them on the bay a few weeks back. [URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/BeavisW2_zpsa0418bce.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/BeavisW2_zpsa0418bce.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

I had a look at the old thread too.. I once replaced some burned out Ashdown drivers for a friend which had 6 ohm stamped on the frame. I think i was an old MAG 410.. The cab was rated for 450w with a claimed impedance of 8 but it was wired series / parallel with 4 of these identical units and that doesn't make a nominal 8, makes a nominal 6 in my book.

I don't have the SWR cab but if I multi-meter my 4 ohm 15" HH driver, it measures ~3.85 ohm so you might not be a million miles off. Also consider you have a high frequency component in that cab and some form of crossover network so that may well be confusing your reading a little.. I'd consider your cab 4 ohm..

Excellent.. These days I expect some of the Trace cabs will be showing their age with worn-out drivers as well as cosmetic issues. Never really had any issues with ones I owned and the 810 was one of the best ever. It's good to know that the Trace heads pair well with the new lightweight cabs, shows there's life in those (mostly great IME) amps even though I don't think Trace is really very fashionable these days. It was postulated in another thread a while back that they may consider making a compact head and matching cabs themselves.. It's a bit like modding an old bike which has a great engine but the old wheels are an odd size, the forks are thin and the rear shocks are worn out and replacing them with modern running gear. Bit like a GS1000 or RD350.

[quote name='kennyrodg' timestamp='1385677661' post='2291162'] Cheers for that bud, any chance of examples of high and low EBP drivers or Fs figures that would demonstrate it. Thanks again. [/quote] The old Precision Devices PD1850 is a good example of a high EBP driver. These were (still are?) commonly used in heavy bass applications and work particularly well in folded horns where the acoustic loading on the driver can be heavy. FS: 30Hz and Qes: 0.22 = an EBP of 136. Whereras the Eminence has a much lower EBP designed to work in a vented enclosure. It has a lower motor strength too. FS: 27 and Qes: 0.33 = an EBP of 84.

[quote name='kennyrodg' timestamp='1385675824' post='2291126'] EBP ? [/quote] Efficiency Bandwidth Product which is defined as Fs (free air resonace freq) divided by Qes (electrical Q)

I've gigged with between 60 and 800 watts with a dinky 210 to 810s to multiway bi-amp setps with 10s, 15s and 18s etc.. So as previously suggested, how long is a peice of string.. All of the above +1.. Currently happy with 60-300w with various cabs.

2 x eight ohm cabs wired parallel will give you a total load of four ohms so you get more power out of your amp and the bonus of greater cone area / displacement. ie it will be louder with two cabs than either a 4 or 8 ohm cab by itself. Doubling the watts into a given speaker will only yield an extra 3dB in theory. In practice losses through power compression and other factors will reduce this further.

Sorry to go against the grain but I have long used Crown amplifiers with little drama.. Not that I have anything against QSC of course, just a preference based on my experience of Crowns..

+1 on mains & HT fuses! I used to carry a spare 12AX7 around when using the Trace V4 but I rarely took any big bottles. I had that amp throw a few wobblies during shows. Every other has been (touch wood) sweet with no dramas whatsoever.

Sound City used to do the 'Energizer 120' which was a 120w power amplifier. 6 x EL34 and will work at 4, 8 or 16 ohm plus 100v line. Very powerful amplifier, used to use one for synthesizer. Reasonably narrow although probably not quite 19" and I'd be lying if I said it was lightweight.. Thunderous when worked hard tho!

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1385049234' post='2283858'] [size=4]Well, they would have sounded different, and as that is how we would have first heard it we would probably have thought it sounded great. All I'm saying is that perceptions depend very much on what you're used to, and what you heard first. [/size][size=4]Same sort of thing with Vinyl and CD: If CD had come first would anyone be singing the praises of vinyl, with its poor fidelity and [/size][size=4]susceptibility[/size][size=4] to damage? [/size] [size=4]The all valve Amps I have played through and heard generally sound great, but to me it is [i][b]like having a built in effect [/b][/i]that you can't bypass. [/size] [/quote] I'd never considered it like that, nice thought..

Thanks for the compliment but it's only like you and your valve amps, Mikey.. I'd love to be able to contemplate a project like yours but just don't have the experience or electronics knowledge. I get the theory but putting that into practice is beyond me! I have many years experience as a live engineer. I've been lucky to use both decent and shoddy kit but for the most part, people (band members, venue owners, tour managers etc) don't care as long as the result is achieved so knowing the kit and hearing what you intend to achieve before it happens becomes second nature. It's not always possible if the system is half blown up or massively under-powered but on the most part it is possibe. Sorry if this is a thread-jack!

[quote name='Myke' timestamp='1384807847' post='2281023'] Ah! I thought they just kind of didn't bother with much EQ, comp, gates etc... Makes sense now! [/quote] Ha,no no.. The bass gets as much attention (from me at least) as everything else because if it doesn't fit, the mix is wrecked. Sometimes making the Bass and the Kick drum sit together is tricky but the sonic integrity of the entire mix is pinned on that combination. EQ is applied where needed usually to accentuate the strength or attenuate the weakness of a given sound. Normally a couple of dB at the appropriate frequency (ies) sorts issues. Hi-pass filter again depends on the situation as does EQ generally. Sometimes it's spot on straight out of the tin Compression is again only applied if needed. More percussive sounds tend require a little more 'squashing' with reduced thresholds and attack times with higher ratios. Older-school sounds sometimes just need a little 'tightening' using slower attack times, a softer knee and lower ratios. Sometimes it's not needed at all with enough dynamic range to look after itself. I don't normally need to gate the bass as if it's excessively noisy or unstable for any reason, there's usually a problem elseswhere such as a groundloop or the DI out has a poor Signal / Noise ratio. It's all about making it fit together and I find the great bands I deal with get that. And the not so good? Well they simply don't! Every good sound engineer should consider all of these things (and more) when mixing the bass in any group as most are greater than the sum of their parts, a synergy so to speak. The bass player is nearly always the 'binding agent and multiplier' IMO.

[quote name='Myke' timestamp='1384797107' post='2280837'] This all takes time and I think in the end people just go with the DI because it's much simpler. Plug in, [i][b]'Play a bit of bass mate' (10 seconds later) 'Alright, thanks man, all done' [/b][/i]That's the typical sound check I have.. But I agree with what BigRedX said but I just go with the flow for everything [/quote] Because after listening to the kick drum and assessing the guitar noise, a decent engineer should have an idea where the bass soonically fits into that mix. As a bass playing sound engineer, I'm always on the bassists side a long as he's behaving of course..

My suggestion would be to go try as many as you can. You'll get a feel for different companies nuances in the pre-amp stage and break-up modes when pushed into the red.. If poss, try it with your speakers or ones you're familiar with so you can hear what the amp is doing rather than the combination. I'm still very happy with my Twin Valve combo and at this point (fingers crossed for next time I use it!) it's been very reliable so maybe you could revisit that route? The Ashdown CTM amps seem to get a good review too although I've never tried one myself. Valve watts are often percieved to be louder than their solid state counterparts (even though it's all the same) so don't dismiss a lower powered amplifier in the 50-100w bracket. Many folks on here happily gig the little Ashdown 30w watt head with a decent cab to great effect. I have gigged with a 60w valve amplifier on a number of occasions including a ten-peice soul outfit. Hope that helps.

Even with a simple passive High Pass Filter, speakers can be protected from over-excursion (farting out) and help them soound 'tighter'. DSP can help take the concept further by having the facilities to change how steep the slope of the cutoff (usually measured in dB per Octave with 12,18 and 24 dB/Oct being common) filter acts. Secondly, the ability to change the frequency at which the filter starts (-3dB) can be advantageous as different cabs / driver combinations will have higher or lower requirements to protect the speaker. Other things mentioned such as EQ and compression curves can help most speakers sound tighter or play louder. With Horn loaded cabs a HPF, EQ and Compression are all essential to keep the speaker working within it's optimum range usually dictated by it's maximum linear displacement or Xmax. Hope that helps..

As stated previously, in a live situiation I'd simply go with a quality DI rather than the fuss of mic on speakers. Exceptions may well be sounds like Lemmy and Alan Davey. I deal with the latter on a regular basis and have found my trusty '57s work just fine. The SM57 is [i]still [/i]a great microphone inspite of it's age and lineage. Recording may well be a different story where you have time and space to experiment working with alternative setups.

MESA / Boogie started by turbo-charging little Fenders in a shoddy shed at the foot of Randall Smith's garden.. Kitchen top sounds up-market to me!

[quote name='Mikey R' timestamp='1384446788' post='2276843'] It seems to me there is room in the UK market for another high end amplifier manufacturer. [/quote] Better get building then! Ha. Can't wait to see your beast built, Mikey.

[URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/BeavisW2_zpsa0418bce.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/BeavisW2_zpsa0418bce.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/BeavisW1_zps11f6781e.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/BeavisW1_zps11f6781e.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Just for giggles..