VTypeV4

Does anyone have any experience or own one of John Chambers (or anyone elses for that matter) 200w (4x) EL34 amplifiers?

I always think of EL34s as a valve that begins distort early which (in most cases) isn't great for bass. My own experience and what I percieve my bass 'should' sound like shows I prefer a cleaner valve such as 6550 / KT88. I'm not saying they don't get loud, a 50w Marshall on the boil seems somewhat massive not to mention the Sound City Energizer 120 (6 x EL34) I had. That thing was capable of hurting speakers but again with plenty of distortion. EL34 amps always seem to begin to break up then go loud whereas 6550 / KT88 go loud then break up. And I know this isn't strictly true because it doesn't work like that but it's always how I've percieved it..

Beavis used to run EL34s and was marginal at best but with the appropriate mods (bias etc) now runs a pair of R/I Tung Sol 6550s and is capable of keeping up with most situations. I don't play in any rock groups.

[IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/BeavisChassis.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/BeavisClean.jpg[/IMG]

And the Ashton doesn't really need a mention because it's beyond any doubt the cleanest valve amp I've ever played.

I'm rambling a bit here but what I'm really trying to get at is [b][i]'how much of a character change do the EL34s go through when worked much harder in this way' [/i][/b]? Are they still clearly crunchy and biting like in more conventional circuits or do they take on something altogether different?

I'm surprised the old 200w Buster head didn't do better -inspite of it's price- as it was a great bit of kit. Simple enough to keep the 'plug n play' types happy an enough fiddle to keep the 'tweak freaks' in shape. I remember having a go of one in Liverpool (or was it Manchester?) back in about 99/00 and thinking it was a really great amp. I have a feeling it was the same day I tried a 400+ too although i was much less sold on that than the buster.

I'm not really a massive fan on the look of those new heads but if they sound as well as the Buster, then they should be a great product..

[url="http://soundcloud.com/vtypev4"]http://soundcloud.com/vtypev4[/url]

My new (Coastal) track and some other older stuff by me..

Thought i'd stick it on anyways..

Cheers for the info, I assume its the old style G12H judging by it's date which makes it a 30 watter?

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1352947835' post='1869755']
Too much work. Just go to the Peavey site, get the T/S specs, find a similar driver. Similar, but not the same, as the 2.8mm xmax of the 1502 is marginal at best. The CA 154 is not compatable, and xmax is no better. As for replacing the basket, the 1505 is a much better choice, specs are compatable, but[i][b] I don't know if the 1505 basket will work with the 1502 magnet[/b][/i]. It's worth checking it out.
[/quote]

Every BW I've come accross has had the same magnet so it'll probably be fine..

In all fairness BWs are a really good drive unit in terms of bang-per-buck.

They are very hardy both mechanically and electrically as long as they're not [i]seriously[/i] abused for long periods. I have used them mainly in PA applications over the years including a period where I needed an 18" for a sub that had died just as a stop-gap. It had a big Crown 3600VZ up it for a while and even when it was replaced, it was still going strong inspite of the 1500w or so that it would occasionally see right down to 32Hz!. It even outlasted the 800w Eminence Omega in the partner sub! I smashed those up with alarming regularity so bit the bullet and got Precision Devices 1000w units instead. 5 years on and they're still doing the business.

The only problem is that the replacement baskets are quite expensive for BWs, much more than they used to be just a few years back but are still cheaper than trying to replace with an equivilant unit.

To the OP, I would personally stick with the BW even if the existing one is fried. Replacing like-for-like will guarantee a continued performance level without cabinet mods and as you've already seen with other posts, other drivers are unlikely satisfy. Do all the checks as others have posted then at least you'll know where you stand.

Before you discard or replace the BW, double check the tinsel leads that run from the connector panel on the speaker itself. They run into the yellow suspension support from the black panel and should be clearly visible.

I say to check they're in good order as I've fixed many a dead or bad sounding BW simply by re-soldering broken or nearly snapped ones bringing many more years of faithful service from the drive unit.

I'm not saying this a guaranteed fix but double check yours, it might be a simple (and in-expensive) repair.

Very insteresting indeed..

Still got it guys.. Gonna leave it available for another week or so but failing that, It'll go for scrap..

Whilst I've never had the 100w Marshall amp thats mentioned, I do have a Linear componented, Marshall circuited amplifier. That previously ran a pair of EL34 and was very marginal when it came to clean headroom particularly for bass guitar. About 5 years ago I had it modded (a couple of resistors and a re-bias) to run 6550s which vastly improved it for bass. Increased clean head room and less distortion but still with plenty of that compression thing going on.

With EL34s it made 52w before the mods and after with 6550s it did 62w on the scope. Not a massive step but it does 'feel' much bigger than the numbers suggest. I do rather suspect the output transformer is now somewhat margnal!

With regards to the bass issue, i've never experienced a lack of low end. The speaker it usually drives is good down to about 50hz although I don't really have masses of low end in my sound. Years ago my Trace V4 had a fit and used this old amp with my Trace 4x10 and 1x15 and it was monsterous even against the 10 peice soul outfit I played with at the time.

I think what I'm trying to say is that a different valve (ie the big boys 6550 and KT88 types) with the appropriate mods can make an amp much better and suitable for the job with destroying its underlying character.

[IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/BeavisClean.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/BeavisChassis.jpg[/IMG]

I'll stick with 5s, I just can't see me going back to four largely on the strength that I find everything so much easier and 'vertical' if you know what I mean..

These are beautiful amps, my step dad had one years ago.. Real sweet sounding fender beater!

I did design some band-pass subs for guy over on another audio forum around the 18" 4 ohm Peavey Black Widow SPS (as installed in my existing 118XTs). He has had excellent results with said enclosures but I want to move on from the Black Widow driver.

I ran the specs of the 1000w Celestion FTR through my software using the existing enclosure but it's a totally different unit and didn't perform anywhere near as well as the BW.

Think I'll do some number crunching with some double-eighteen enclosures in both vented direct-radiating and bandpass designs. I consider horns and scoops to be too bulky for mobile use. Gonna have a look at the Celestion site and see what they make these days..

Vintage Celestion 12 inch Speaker in need of repair.

[IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/Cel1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/Cel2.jpg[/IMG]
　
I removed this from a cabinet I'm rebuilding and have decided to move it on rather than spend the tme on it.
　
I'm unsure of which model it is as there's no information on the magnet. It looks like there was once some sort of cover (like a greenback) but this is now missing. I've had a look on the Celestion website and according to their information and its date coding it was built in November 1975. The voice coil looks to be about 1.5 inches dia and the magnet about 5 inches dia so that could mean a rating anywhere from 15 to 50 watts.
　
This speaker is in need of repair as it appears to have a malaligned voice coil causing a bit (quite a bit if i'm honest) of rub against the magnet. I haven't had the meter on the coil but a battery on the cone moved it backwards and forwards suggesting it's still intact. According to the frame stamp, it should be an 8 ohm unit. It probably will require a re-cone however, the careful engineer maybe able to rescue the existing assembly? I haven't the time or patience with it so hopefully it will go to a good home.

Free to Collector

If it gets shipped, I expect £10 will cover it within UK

Cheers, Matt

[quote name='Warwick_Official' timestamp='1352308436' post='1861443']
Beautiful Streamer VTtypeV4! Single coil J's on a Streamer are hard to beat...thanks for sharing!
[/quote]

I've had lots of basses over the years including Fender, Status, Yamaha, Aria etc but nothing does what these do. I wouldn't change it for all the tea in china.

I also had one of the early Rockbass Streamers (03/04 maybe?) which was great but should've had the 5-string. I sold it to my friend as she was intersted in learning bass a number of years back. She still has it to this day and loves it.

I'd love to A/B it against a Streamer Stage II as I do think mine is a particularly good one. I've played a number of Warwick basses and do still think mine is the dogs doo-dahs. Even after all these years!

I thought I'd contributed to this thread but hadn't..

So here's my '01 Streamer LX5 which I ordered brand new in the January of that year.

[IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/WarwickSun.jpg[/IMG]

A truly great bit of kit that does the trick everytime.

I'm not really finalised on any designs yet which is why I'm not really concerned about models and specifics just yet..

WIth regards to weight, I'm not really fussed as I'm expecting big subs to weigh a fair bit anyways. Saving a few kilos with neo magnets isn't that important. I think JBL, EV and PD were all quite expensive (inspite of being generally great products) but the Celestion range seem to be more in the Eminence bracket.

As for the x-over, it will be an active item. It'll give give me better control and efficiency especially with a 3 way system when I'm aligning a flat phase response..

And Bill's site is great, I've been on before but it's always interesting.

Cheers gents.

[quote name='umph' timestamp='1352151392' post='1859511']
i didn't know v4's came with a dummy load?

also pull the output valves, that rat dummy load will get hot quick and you don't wanna be in the way when it goes off!
[/quote]

Yup, the MK2s did.. Both the head and combo models came with the switch. Very handy!

Definately don't want to be in the way when anything goes off! So tubes out wont upset the power supply or anything?

As well as an in-house engineer, I'm a partner in a sound reinforcement company and I'm considerng building some new subs to further expand the larger rig.

Currently I'm using a pair of Peavey 118XT (1x18") and they sound great but they're somewhat over stressed for the power that they see so I'm considering building either four 1x15", two double 15s or possibly a pair of 2x18. They will be either a vented direct radiating design or a single tuned band-pass construction similar to that of the Ohm BR215/218.

Clearly without all the sizes, choosing a model and crunching all the numbers is beyond the discussion of ths thread.

I am considering a Celestion as the heart of the cabinet as they have always served me well for both bass guitar and PA applications. My Ashton rig runs Tru-vox 10s and 15s, all the Trace stuff over the years has been loaded with variants on the BG, K and BX range, the old Martin Audio PA rig ran with BX18s in the subs and even my rig at the Rigger runs 400w 15" BX series in the top-packs etc etc..

I have no problem with Eminence as they make an excellent speaker and I have used them also in many applications with no drama.

Does anyone have good reason for me not to use Celestion? The specs of the current FTR series seem to compare well with their american counter-parts and prices on eBay also seem fair. In all fairness, I'm somewhat out of touch with the current range of both companies but I would like to use Celestion as long as they're still a good product. I have aslo looked at offerings from JBL, Fane, Precision Devices and ElectroVoice. If I can buy British and its worth it, then I will.

I'm looking at a 600w minimum power handling as I have two Crown CE2000 in bridge-mono so I looking towards at least 1200w worth of speakers. I'm sure a little bit of over-powering and an unclipped amp that the drivers will be fine. Eventually the CE's will go and an 3600VZ or 5000VZ will go in thier place.

Any love for Celestion with their current line then?

I've used them in a number of rigs over the years and they've always been great..

The facilities they offer are very comprehensive, reasonably simple to use and most importantly they sound great. My only criticism is that the patches can't be locked (meaning people who shouldn't be messing can) unlike some of the other similar units. I did have a display fail once but it was fixed under warranty.

Real good bit of kit like most dBx stuff!

It's probably something simple dude, I expect a failed valve has taken something out with it. I would say it unlikely that it's hurt the output transformer.

Cheers man, you're a star and in the mean time, if you need an amp, come get the Ashton!
[quote name='longtimefred' timestamp='1352134200' post='1859173']
or just use my v4! when its back from the menders

i can drop it off whenever you need it mate. save you some pennies.
[/quote]

Some interesting suggestions there gents..

Never thought about making one myself but it does seem very simple. I could screw the resistor(s) to a little block of ali with a jack socket on the front. Simples!

As for pulling valves, even simpler! I believe the direct out is entirely pre-amp derived, nothing to do with the output stage / transformer..

Food for thought indeed.

I've been looking at one of these recently..

[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAT-HOTROD-SPEAKER-DUMMY-LOAD-HEADPHONE-VALVE-AMP-AMPLIFIER-LINE-OUT-BOX-TUBE-/350634502945?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D3232749446668399860%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D350634502945%26"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAT-HOTROD-SPEAKER-DUMMY-LOAD-HEADPHONE-VALVE-AMP-AMPLIFIER-LINE-OUT-BOX-TUBE-/350634502945?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D3232749446668399860%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D350634502945%26[/url]

I've got a couple of recording jobs coming in and was thinking about taking the Ashton. It will sound great but it would be even better without the bulk of carrying a speaker round with me.

When I had the V4, it was awesome as it had a built in dummy load so you could use the pre-amp with worrying about a speaker connection. One of the really features on that amp as Longtimefred will testify to!

The Rat product looks pretty tidy with plenty of features should I wish to use them. The 50w rating is acceptable as I'm not bothered about running the amp up to flat out and all that with the Ashton, I simply want to use the existing XLR out without mauling cabs about.

Just to be clear its not really an attenuator I'm after but a dummy load..

Does anyone have any opinions or thoughts?

I've used a couple of the Ultragraphs, both the normal old-school dual 15 band EQs and also the newer 1U digital 2496 Ultragraph. The latter is a very comprehensive with many facilities including multi-band fully parametric EQ, normal dual channel 31 band EQ, dynamic EQ, multi featured compression and limters, meters for in and out and a calibrated SPL facility.

As for the lawsuit, I understand there was something similar with Drawmer about the original line of Gates and Compressors..