hamfist

Interesting how a thread comparing the contrasting skills needed to "groove" in funk and/or rock has turned into a social comment on stereotyping and pigeonholing. I suspect some folks have just not quite got the original point (or possibly, more likely, not read the whole thread). So, for those who advocate that we all live happily ever after, pushing ourselves upwards and onwards into musical excellence in all styles and genres, becoming that, much worshiped, "well-rounded bassist" (I've always felt this was more of a waistline comment). Are you suggesting that there is no difference in the brain-skills and inherent talent needed to excel in either the funk or rock genres ? Clearly there is some sort of differentiation between the two and, yes, it will be inherently a little difficult to define exact boundaries but I think 99% of us actually understand and can recognise the difference between a stereotypical funk riff and a stereotypical rock riff. My hypothesis, and my personal experience, is that those who naturally excel in one will struggle a bit with the other and that masters of both are the rarest of rare things. Are there really so few people who have found this too ?

[quote name='Lynottfan' timestamp='1365630455' post='2042215'] I think that players can excel at both, but they tend to be in short supply imho. I have seen many great players, with mighty chops who can not rock, there is a certain put you head down and pray you survive attitude that is not a natural approach, especially when I have watched schooled players, yes they are great and yes they got all the techniques and the knowledge and the skill, but they can't rock for sh*te, when they try its contrived, I have seen this plenty of times so I tend to agree with the OP, but there exceptions to the rule, N W-R for me is the man at this, he is funky, he grooves like a mutha, but the man can Rock! [/quote] God bless you sir. But, please, who is N W-R ?

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1365625977' post='2042124'] I've seen too many corporate and wedding bands to believe that playing any style of music is possible. You can fake it for your average listener but you'd be sussed instantly by anyone really in to that particular genre. I don't know why. It's the beauty of music. Imagine going into Newcastle and putting on a Geordie accent and learning a few phrases. How long could you carry it off? [/quote] Good points, imaginatively expressed. Thankyou.

[quote name='sykilz' timestamp='1365609420' post='2041784'] [media]http://youtu.be/mg3mUhGVCgo[/media] Groovy Rocky baby. [/quote] And that, good sir, is rock. No funk in there. Can we please, please, please all stop using the word "groove" as we have established that it is a too ambiguous and widely defined word to be useful. My biggest problem is that I can listen to a song and instantly know whether a song is rock or funk according to my personal definitions, but can't articulate it accurately to save my life !

[quote name='Lenny B' timestamp='1365623666' post='2042079'] How could I forget this? This and the Chilis was really my gateway from the world of rock to the world of funk. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2nqZCSnN1U[/media] And this... [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzEJvHE_rEg[/media] Actually, just any live p-funk really. [/quote] You see, for me, neither of those songs has the tiniest bit of "rawk" in them.

I think removing the word "groove" from our thoughts for the rest of this thread would be beneficial. I regret using it in my OP. I was intending to discuss and compare Funk and rock. Yes, rock can groove, and funk can groove, but it's in different ways. But funk is not rock, and vica-versa.

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1365594341' post='2041469'] Like one or two people have said, they're linked so it's not like you need to be exclusively good at one. Michael Jackson used to tell his band "keep the rock funky and the funk rocking". [/quote] I just don't see it. Of course, this does all depend on people's viewpoints and definitions of what rock and funk actually are (i.e. I could never define Michael Jackson of having ever rocked). I have never been aware of a player that is seriously outstanding at both. Would love to be proved wrong though. Suggestions gratefully received.

[quote name='Jono Bolton' timestamp='1365593496' post='2041447'] I don't think so. I've been toying with the idea of selling both my basses to fund one new one, but having a look at the For Sale section on here, £250-£275 seems to be the going rate if you want to get rid relatively quickly, there are a few around £300 that have taken a while to shift. Unfortunately the second hand market seems to be quite slow at the minute, and because MIM Fenders are ten-a-penny only the verry keenly priced ones seem to sell. [/quote] +1 Although my advice before buying any MIM Fender (even more than many other brands/lines) is to play them first. THe % of dogs is pretty high, although no-one will deny there are some gems in there too.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1365588991' post='2041362'] Have a drummer who is a rocker and he is really good at that.. as good as anyone around here, IMO. He can make a pass at the funkier stuff and sound pretty decent .. but you can tell he doesn't listen to it..and therefore he is short., IMO. If he put the time in..he could be so much better but he doesn't have the empathy or desire. Not a problem in reality as nobody but a really good funk drummer would notice... but... It is more than just having the notes/licks down.... in both genres. I think it is fair to say so and so is a rock player OR a funk player. The people that I know just don't cross-over or can't... ( I am talking about being at home in both a Maiden song or a Jamiroquai song... hmmmm..???) and why would they unless you are talking playing AT it, rather than playing IT. [/quote] It a great, and very articulate post. Someone earlier in the tthread asked me (the OP) what I really meant. I think I'm talking about rock vs funk really. I think "groove" is too ambiguous a term. I do listen to, and enjoy both (although have far more of a heritage in rock). I can learn the lines for funk, and get them to sound authentic, but can't think of the note selection for myself, in a million years. So I'm playing along to something and want to "funk it up" it's a real struggle. However, I'll instantly know how to rock something, even in quite an advanced and complex way. It's just there whenever I want it. Maybe it is more of the sheer amount of time I have listened to, and played, rock. OR ..... is it that I listen to, and enjoy, rock because my brain somehow relates to it in a way that seems to resonate in my head/heart better. WHich came first, the chicken or the egg ?

My personal theory is that bass players naturally rock [u]or[/u] funk/groove. For me I naturally rock. I'm passable at funk and modern grooves, but know that I instinctively rock well, and hard. Conversely I have heard players who can funk/groove like anything, but don't know how to rock to save their lives. In fact I'd go so far as to say I've NEVER heard a player who really excels at both. ..... discuss ................

Nice one. Should do the job !

TRaded a bass with Kert. Bass was as described. packed well. Easy transaction. THanks

Just bought an amp footswich from Jon. I can thoroughly recommend him to deal with. The whole transaction was very pleasant. Jon did exactly as he promised and items packed well. Thanks very much !!!

If you are suspicious that a power supply is causing noise, then certainly try using a battery instead. If the problem was the power supply then the noise will be gone. Cheap, good isolated powersupplies can be bought from Effectpowersupplies (about £20). Also, remember that some pedals simply cannot be run of the same supply as certain other pedals without noise, even when using a quality supply. In that case, the only option is to use different supplies for each, or a battery for one of them.

I would also add that the class-D (Mibass etc) power section is thought by many people not to have the authority of the more traditional solid state power amps of the MAG, ABM and Spyder series amps. The Chines build quality seems to be pretty good in general, although of course there will be exceptions, as with any mass-built item. The very best Ashdown head on the market, globally, at the moment is my Spyder 550 in the Amps for Sale section !

[quote name='ern500evo' timestamp='1364998773' post='2033878'] I was looking forward to my first rehearsal with my new RH450 tonight, until I read this thread!! [/quote] The key will be to use your ears, listening to what you hear, and not your eyes, reading what others have to say about it. That way, you'll be fine !! Report back !

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1364982879' post='2033524'] [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/tc-electronic-rh450-fixed-lowpass-filter-899716/"]Here you go...[/url] I don't like clear highs either, so it didn't really affect me. [/quote] THanks. Very interesting article. I guess that's the origin of all the power output/power management hoo ha also. THe term Low Pass FIlter is actually a poor description however of what is going on though. THe analysis shows a gentle roll off above 4K, with a completely flat response still available up to 8K with a bit of knob twiddling. There's no low pass filtering going on though, in the correct sense of the term.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1364973713' post='2033382'] The RH450 does have a hard-wired lo-pass filter (5kHz, I think?) [/quote] I'm surprised to hear that. It's not what my ears are telling me. The stated parametric range of the treble control is claimed to go up to 6.3KHz, which would be very odd if there were a 5KHz low pass filter. I'd be interested to read about this if you knew of a link ? Although the whole fact that I own cabs without tweeters tells you that I am not a fan of bright, clear high end anyway.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1364925842' post='2032809'] To be fair, I gigged mine extensively for a year, and spent hours experimenting with the EQ. My issues were more dynamic than tonal. [/quote] To be fair (in return), you would then fit exactly into this group of people I described who simply don't like the amp .... See above .......... "Also, I am equally sure that some folks who have not got on with them simply don't find the sound they are looking for due to the fact that they are looking for a different style of amp." My point was that for quite a few of those that don't get on with it, it will be because of the complex EQ and the fact that they haven't the "ears" or skill to get the best out of it. I suspect that you, WotT, definitely do have the ears and skill to get what you want, it's just that the RH didn't get you where you wanted to go. Fair enough. I am amazed, Molan, by your description of an "artificial cut in the high end". Through my Baer cabs the RH is bright. Like any amp/cab combination though. Some simply are destined to fail through incompatibility. I'll repeat that I do think that a lot of the character of any amp, and yes maybe particularly the RH amps, is in the midrange. If you are playing it with cabs which have a big hole in the midrange (as many bass cabs do) then it may not be a great combination. The nuance in midrange of the RH's, which shines with the midrange drivers of the Baer cabs, is beautiful IMO. Before I sound like a complete RH fanboy, I will add that I have not had the chance to play the RH really loud yet, and I do have some concerns. It is certainly excellent for very quiet gigs and medium volume band rehearsals in a small room. But, even so, in those situations I have the master almost halfway (with one 8 ohm 12" cab, albeit a very high quality and sensitive one). This is with optimal gain levels and minimal compression. I do have concerns that it will not have enough volume for a loud gig with two of these cabs. I hope to get the chance to try the RH pre-amp through my Ashdown SPyder 550 power amp today, which I may decide to use for larger events. In hindsight, I may wish I'd bought the RH750 as the 450 power amp may simply not have the grunt and volume I will need (having no FoH bass support for the majority of my gigs) The Ashdown Spyder 550 sounds volume-wise to be in a different league to the RH450. It has a lorryload more grunt and volume available on tap. I am still loving the RH's pre-amp though.