jimmyb625

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1096024' date='Jan 20 2011, 09:39 AM']I don't see how that applies to anything you quoted What did that answer?[/quote] You have two AC voltage sources, if the waveform of one differs from the other (which is very possible, unless you have 0% manufacturing tolerance) there's the potential for a difference. I don't deny the physics of series circuits, all I am saying is that I would like to see a comparison of the waveforms. I've not actually stated whether I think there's a difference or not, I'm keeping an open mind until I've seen it for myself.

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1095901' date='Jan 20 2011, 02:08 AM']Why ignore the electrical properties of the circuit and try to introduce too many other variables. If there is no discernible difference in the circuit you'd just be trying to mess things up enough to claim some deviation is a different tone. Saying "I wouldn't want to read any LCR values for the pickups" implies your decision is made. That's why I said buy it and enjoy it. If the tone changes are this subtle, even if they do exist, this would not be a game changer but more of a price changer. Hmm, I wonder if Sterling has ever heard the term upsell? [/quote] Because, it's not just a resistive circuit.

[quote name='Johnston' post='1095988' date='Jan 20 2011, 09:08 AM']I actually said a '51 P-bass trying to be sarcastic as it is a single coil pup. (Plus a Fender product not EBMM)[/quote] Yeah, I know bugger all about P-Basses, which is how I managed to make the pickup 2 coils!! (that's the reason why I hardly ever make any posts about other basses!)

[quote name='dlloyd' post='1095873' date='Jan 20 2011, 12:51 AM']I don't really have time to watch these videos, but I'm genuinely interested in what's upset you here. What exactly was said about the comparison between the two? What claims were EBMM making about the comparison between the two things (i.e. 1,2 in series as opposed to 2,1 in series)? Did they say you can or should be able to tell the difference between the two?[/quote] [quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1095878' date='Jan 20 2011, 12:57 AM']Yeah, they did. We also have a claim of 16 tonal variations with just 2 coils but that just may be hyperbolic inertia in the populace acting as a multiplier.[/quote] [quote name='dlloyd' post='1095885' date='Jan 20 2011, 01:09 AM']What [i]exactly[/i] did they say?[/quote] [quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1095889' date='Jan 20 2011, 01:19 AM']That's from an earlier post in this thread [/quote] [quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1095895' date='Jan 20 2011, 01:36 AM']So your asking me to tell me what you said? I don't understand the point of that. And you're telling me about tests done in the way you'd do it but you say you haven't seen any and want to see some done? At this point I'd say buy one and enjoy all the different tones [/quote] My post was in relation to this stream of conversation, clarifying the details of what I said earlier for the benefit of dlloyd. For the second point, yes, I'd like to see the results of some testing. I wouldn't want to read any LCR values for the pickups, I'd want to see waveforms, prefereably overlaid, of the two sound samples. The reason for using something like an e-bow would be to limit potential variations caused by picking.

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1095891' date='Jan 20 2011, 01:28 AM']No, any playing and or listening test done by EBMM or a fanboy is as valid as a psychic telling you about their successes. I've made the claim 3+2 is better than 2+3 and explained why. It makes sense. No one has proved me wrong. Adding an ebow is a waste of time, simply measure the resistance and capacitance of the coils and show a predictable and repeatable change based on the order of the coils. Then try to explain how changing the order of 2 identical coils changes the sound. Then place $40 in an envelope and address it to... I need to change my math example to make it more applicable, 3+3 is better than 3+3. [/quote] Are you referring to me here?

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1095889' date='Jan 20 2011, 01:19 AM']That's from an earlier post in this thread [/quote] Yes, I gave the combinations based on how I believe the switching options have been calculated. Based on 2 coils, I said there were 16, which included 1&2, 2&1, 1//2 and 1 and 2 separately. This was done in response to another poster wondering on the variations that could be obtained from a P-Bass. The decision to split the coil into two was mine, based on the assumption that it's possible to do it, regardless of how it sounds. If you check the vids on the EBMM site, Steve Morse has said that there is a tonal difference (doesn't count though) and on the main forum there is a post from Pete DuBaldo saying that he tested the different series combinations and he heard a difference (also probably doesn't count, as he's a 'fanboy'). I'd just like to see a test of it.

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1095864' date='Jan 20 2011, 12:41 AM']No need, it's already covered by basic science. What's the difference in 3+2 or 2+3? Hint: the difference is subtle but 3+2 gives a more solid 5 as it's building on a larger foundation and the 3 can support the 2 much better than the other way around leading to a more musical and round 5. More complex science has also shown that anyone who believes there will be a difference will hear it when given the visual cue. It's similar to the counting horses in a way.[/quote] I never really was much good with science. I couldn't work out if light was a wave, or particles. Anyway, like I said, it will be good to do a comparison on one. It should be pretty straightforward to look at the waveforms of the two, you could use something along the lines of an ebow to generate the note, removing any possible picking variation.

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1095044' date='Jan 19 2011, 12:42 PM']Really, is there anything that some expert salesman can't hear?[/quote] Well, it wasn't a salesman, it was one of those musicians with no integrity... The good thing though, is that with the GC you can program two presets, eg 1&2 in preset position 1 and then 2&1 in preset 2. It should be a pretty straightforward test to measure the signal produced at each preset position. I've no idea whether there will be a difference or not, but I'd like to see the results.

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1094891' date='Jan 19 2011, 10:33 AM']Some of those are imaginary Unless you can hear which way electricity flows through a coil. The first 2 are like saying 3+2 is different than 2+3. That's not to say that some can't hear it [/quote] Yes, some people have said that they can tell a difference, you saw that in the video.

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1094878' date='Jan 19 2011, 10:27 AM']Everyone in those videos has. Your statement is a bit confusing as it has a ? on the end. Why do so many musicians think businessmen would never do things to them that all the other businessmen do?[/quote] Yeah, I just wanted to make sure I'd understood what you'd said. Is that why the same people said the same thing at NAMM? I might have mis-interpreted you here, but to my mind, it sounds like you are saying that the opinions of all of these artists can be bought.

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='1094867' date='Jan 19 2011, 10:14 AM']As in soloed coils? Surely on a split-pickup P, if you solo a coil you'll effectively be switching off 2 strings? Could be useful for punk bassists, I suppose. *dons tin hat to protect from the incoming black/black/maple Precisions*[/quote] Have you heard the way I play??? Just because it's possible, doesn't mean it'll sound good, in fact I'm pretty sure that in the full scale GC there will be a fair few combinations that don't sound so hot.

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1094731' date='Jan 19 2011, 02:44 AM']That's the whole point of paid testimonials. They're buying that faith and applying it to the product. It works almost all the time. It's like believing cops won't lie in a courtroom or in another sense why guys won't give criticism to girls they're trying to have sex with.[/quote] Ok, so you think everyone who has gone on record and said good things about it has only done so because they're being paid? [quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1094738' date='Jan 19 2011, 03:23 AM']Series, parallel and...[/quote] Series 1&2, series 2&1, parallel, coil 1, coil 2 with combinations of each coil forward and reverse phase.

[quote name='Johnston' post='1094520' date='Jan 18 2011, 09:54 PM']How many options will it give on a '51 P [/quote] If you split the two coils, 16.

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='1093470' date='Jan 18 2011, 08:54 AM']Seems like a solution to an unknown problem to me. I'm racking my brains as to why you would need this... So far the reasons for getting this are - 1. Because you can - bragging rights? But seriously, the only thing I can think of where it may come in useful is if you have recorded a track in a studio and need to do a punch in or edit at a later date. This system would allow you to recall the exact settings. To be honest though, I would hope that you know your bass to the extent where you can pull out the sounds you need with a few instinctive twiddles on the fly... Out of all the combinations that are bragged, how many of those can you really hear the difference? Certainly one I would like to try out for myself at least![/quote] Well, one of the things is that, short of re-wiring your bass, do you know every tone that it has in there anyway?

[quote name='sshorepunk' post='1093347' date='Jan 18 2011, 12:12 AM']Still think they should have doen a fretless[/quote] Yep, I'd love to try a fretless one, can't justify the price tag for a US version.

[quote name='Chopthebass' post='1092981' date='Jan 17 2011, 07:25 PM']I reckon a lot of the sounds will have subtle differences and in a live situation you won't hear the differences between a lot of them. I bet you could count the number of decent tones you can get out of it on one hand. Another post-NAMM gimmick![/quote] Well, you've got a selection of active and passive tones available, 5 of each that you pre-program in for use, giving 10 that are stored at any one time. Sure, a lot of the sounds will have only subtle differences. As far as hearing the difference in a live situation, I don't doubt it, but be honest, in a live situation, how many of your average punters can tell the difference between one bass and the other? [quote name='Marvin' post='1093265' date='Jan 17 2011, 10:57 PM']All far too complicated for a yokel like me. I'm still struggling to figure out how to put new batteries in this 'ere wireless mouse. Is it me or do wireless mice just look wrong? Having no wire their tail isn't there[/quote] Wireless mice are just wrong, nothing to swing them by. I reckon it will be as difficult as getting photos from a digital camera. [quote name='TomKent' post='1093281' date='Jan 17 2011, 11:08 PM']I think there's a thing you can fit in Strats which is a mini computer, makes your tone 'super phat'. My luthier mentioned it ages ago. Maybe this uses the same sort of technology? He said it was literally a mini computer haha.[/quote] In some ways it's similar to a computer. My understanding of it is that it's a microprocessor based switching system, but switching is all it does at the moment, the signal path is not affected by the GC.

[quote name='RhysP' post='1091879' date='Jan 16 2011, 09:45 PM']Pre CBS Stingrays?[/quote] They're rare beasts indeed!!

I'm going to suggest you try a Bongo, just because I'm weird like that!

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1090900' date='Jan 15 2011, 09:41 PM']I think the main negative is a response to the way the product is presented, which we can each judge according to our own tastes! EBMM's style there reminds me a lot of Mackie, if you've ever read any of their product manuals you'll probably know what I mean. Assuming I've understood what it does correctly then I think you can get quite a long way with conjecture since pickup phase and series-parallel switches are nothing new. If I was a guitarist then I'd be drooling over the idea of retrofitting this to an HSS strat! As a bass player though, I can't see it being a big success, especially given the utter lack of love for the old s1 switch which I felt added a really useful tonal option to the already versatile jazz bass.[/quote] Have you seen how many "Game Changers" are around at the moment? They're everywhere, it's downright confusing I tell you. Even Behringer have changed the game apparently, although there are unconfirmed rumours that the game they've changed it to bears an uncanny resemblence to the old one.... One thing I think would be quite cool, would be to split each coil into two, so you could get a sort of pseudo P-Bass configuration. in various body positions. Bugger, should have patented that before suggesting it!

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='1090818' date='Jan 15 2011, 08:03 PM']My experience agrees with the Grand Wazoo, its just ridiculous for playing live. Most soundmen would go mental if pickups were being changed every 20 seconds while mid-set...or between songs for that matter. Bedroom player! [/quote] From what I've seen of it, I don't think you actually could use it like that even if you wanted to. You'd have to use your settings that you'd programmed in to the separate banks previously, as if you're trying to program via PC, it takes around 5 seconds to upload. You'd have to build some rests into your songs for that!! Also, you'd have to have your laptop strapped to your back (or at least be less than 5m from it) in order to program the thing. I may have got the wrong end of the stick as to how it works, but the way I'm seeing it, is it's something you program in advance, rather than at a gig or recording session.

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1090591' date='Jan 15 2011, 04:24 PM']I looked at the EBMM vid actually, and thought it was rubbish! But as I said, I couldn't face going all the way through it. If it's essentially a (highly) glorified pickup selector then I can see it being very useful for guitars, but tbh far less so for bass where lots of the out-of-phase combinations aren't really going to be very conventionally useful, and lots of the series combinations will end up sounding very similar. Fair play to them for giving it a crack as there will be some good combos in there but it's not going to live up to their own hype and revolutionise the bass world![/quote] Ah, ok. It does have a certain 'style' to it, but I suppose it does have to be advertising led as the idea is to drum up interest. Yeah, at the moment it is like the world's biggest pickup selector, but it's possible with the technology of the microcontroller to advance it in the future. I think there will be a lot of sounds in there that won't be useable and there'll be some that are barely distinguishable from others. Still, you never know there might be something in there that absolutely blows your socks off. I've seen a lot of guitarists say that Bass players will get more out of it..... [quote name='Machines' post='1090639' date='Jan 15 2011, 05:08 PM']Finally got round to watching the vids (whilst skipping the guitar parts). It's an interesting idea, however I expect a LOT of the sounds are so similar as to be indistinguishable from each other, thus a waste of time. I have respect for them for trying a new approach though, sounds like Sterling Ball got a bit bored of how things are currently (despite releasing a lot of new models recently). I'd definitely like to sit down with one for a few hours and see what happened - am looking forward to seeing some prices.[/quote] It's listed as a $500 MRSP increase over the regular reflex, with a predicted street price increase of $350. I guess over here it would be around £250-£300 more?

[quote name='Doctor J' post='1090511' date='Jan 15 2011, 03:12 PM']The seem to have overlooked the humble blend pot, which might also offer a gajillion other tonal change possibilities.[/quote] My Bongo has a blend pot. I think in time, it will be offered on the GameChanger though.

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1090448' date='Jan 15 2011, 02:23 PM']OK so I got 3 minutes through that video before I lost the will to live and had to give up. American guitar/amp manufacturers seem to specialise in these extended commercials completely devoid of information content. So is there anywhere on their site that actually explains what this thing is doing that makes it so special? Because so far all I can gather is that it lets you combine pickups any way you want - but there aren't that many combinations possible with a 2-pickup system so I must be missing something. I was wondering if it used delay between pickups to give continuously variable phase shifts but since it's all analogue...or do the 8 million combinations include 'treble boost 3.1dB, treble boost 3.2dB'? I'd like to see a good explanation of what's actually going on but so far I've only seen meaningless hype.[/quote] Did you look at the NAMM video, or the one from the EBMM website? The NAMM one is a bit pants. The coils of the pickup are treated separately, so 2 humbuckers gives 4 coils. If you take coil 1 for example, you can get the combinations 1, 12, 13, 14, 123, 124, 134, 1234, 142, 143. and you can have them in phase, out of phase, in series, or in parallel (I think Steve Morse says that 1&3 in series sounds different to 3&1 in series in one of the vids). The 8.5 million combinations stated come from having 6 coils in use and works on the assumption that the coils in series sound different. As far as I've been able to see, things like tone and volume controls are not a part of what it does, it just gives lots of switching options, but I can see it being possible to incorporate that within the future.

The first bass I bought was a 5 string, although I had played 4's a couple of times before that. I've just bought my first 4 string (a fretless one as well) which is a remarkably stupid thing for someone who plays as badly as I do. For me, switching between the two hasn't been that bad, although I have had the occasional moment of 'brain fade' where I end up playing on the D string of the 4, when I wanted to be on the A.

[quote name='tom1946' post='1090121' date='Jan 15 2011, 07:38 AM']It probably is a worthy product and a great piece of engineering, I don't think your average gigmeister would have the time or inclination to mess about with it live. I do think you can have too many 'tones', after a while they all merge and you forget which ones you liked imo of course. [/quote] If you're using it in a live setting, you haven't got gazillions of options to switch between. The idea (as far as my understanding of it goes) is that you spend some time prior to the gig, recording session, practice in your bedroom in front of some bored family members etc, playing about and finding tones you like. You then load these 10 presets into the guitar and away you go for world domination. The quotes about all of them sounding the same are interesting. Pretty much every guitarist (and quite a lot of Bass players from what I've seen) obsess over 'their' sound. Sound men get criticised for wanting to DI and control levels of bass in the mix, people embark on life long quests to find the perfect combination of amplifier, cabinet and effects, some people even spend huge amounts on cables (ok, these are mainly Hi-Fi enthusiasts who buy from Russ Andrews!) but you get the point. Don't get me wrong, I think there are going to be some truly awful sounds within the various combinations and I also think there will be some that I won't notice the difference between, but I'm still not ready to write off something I've never even heard for myself, let alone tried. You can't base anything off the Namm video as far as audio goes though, it's difficult enough to hear that they're actually playing the bass, never mind individual settings!