P-T-P

[quote name='dlloyd' post='215300' date='Jun 9 2008, 11:19 AM']Is anybody else playing a C#?[/quote] Don't think so, vocal harmonies possibly. Though my question grew more from the fact that I have seen that particular guitar chord voicing referred to as an Amaj9 (irrespective of the song I'm learning it happens to have cropped up in). I wasn't particularly bothered by the chord name until I had to transpose to a different key and didn't like any of the voicings I'd come up with on my own so wanted to look for an alternative. I looked for the tab/chords for the song, where it's named as Amaj9 and if you do a search for Amaj9 chord shapes, that particular voicing commonly occurs (minus the C#).

A tune we're learning has a chord in it that I've seen written down as being Amaj9. The notes in the chord (as played on the guitar) are A - E - G# - B - E. What's confusing me, in terms of the name of the chord, is the lack of a C# in the actual notes that are played in the song. If someone had asked me to play an Amj9 arpeggio I would have included a C# in there. Wouldn't the missing C# make the B in the chord a suspended 2nd or does the fact that G# is present as the major 7th force the B, by default, to be a 9th? Just to avoid any further confusion, the chord is almost certainly an A in the context of the tune as it serves to set-up a key change between A and E.

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='213758' date='Jun 6 2008, 11:49 AM']Agreed. I guess I am asking, do we delude ourselves when we act without integrity in order to fool ourselves into believing that we have it?[/quote] I think integrity - and I it would be a good time to define it further as artistic integrity, seeing as how that's what we're talking about really - is at once both a salve and a romantic ideal. It's played like a trump card or even a put down a lot of the time. A lot of original artists struggle to get their work heard and/or to make a living from their work but console themselves by focussing on their artistic integrity and use it to feel better about themselves when their work is compared to other's more commercially successful endeavours. It's part snobbery, part insecurity, part pride etc. Ironically, artistic integrity can serve to make wprk more interesting, widely appreciated and/or commercially viable after its creator has passed away. Not much consolation to the artist though.

Top man. He bought my MarkBass CMD121P and had a very pleasant chat as we did the deal.

Isn't a huge part of the reason for the apparent demise in (new/up and coming) bands playing original compositions live down to us now being in an age where the kind of technology it took to record the great albums of yesteryear is now sitting somewhere near to anyone who happens to be reading this online? And the ability to promote, get noticed etc. Putting together a band, getting some gigs, building up a following, dragging that following up to some shithole in London in the hope a lazy arsed A&R man can be bothered to turn up, scraping up enough cash for 8 hours overnight in a dingy studio with a disillusioned engineer, rented 16 track tape and 500 vinyl copies of your single etc. etc. is no longer the only realistic way to get yourself noticed any more. There's no shortage of new music (it's quality is up for debate I'll grant you) it's just there's not so much of it making it's way into our lives via the live music scene.

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='211854' date='Jun 3 2008, 03:30 PM']All perfectly valid points. My use of 'you' as opposed to I 'is' is, as you correctly point out, grammatically incorrect - I should probably have said 'if [b]one[/b] plays too many etc' but, culturally, I would be unlikely to use that term, like.[/quote] "I" would suffice! [quote]Re my opinions slipping into pretension - that's where they like to spend most of their free time. Hence my plan for world domination [/quote] Funny stuff. [quote]In terms of attaching more importance to what I am doing, it is it's importance to ME that I am referring to - isn't that what integrity is?[/quote] I understand on the first part. I think deciding what integrity is, within the context(s) of the discussion is tricky. Is there a code of values or principles we should all adhere to as bass players? As musicians? Or is it more, as you suggest, personal to begin with? I think you kinda blurred the lines a little because of the trickiness. For me, I think once there's money involved, true artistic integrity goes out of the window. However, in it's place there's professional integrity and as we're talking about playing music here, there's going to be a vast artistic element to that and in this area, integrity can surely only be personal and how far someone strays from genuine artistic integrity is a matter for them alone to deal with.

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='211819' date='Jun 3 2008, 02:23 PM']Integrity is, by its own nature, subjective so I make no apology for having my own perspective on it.[/quote] And I wouldn't chide anyone for holding to that line. However you mix-up your pronouns quite a lot when expressing that opinion... [quote][b]I [/b]find that too much of this bubble-gum stuff takes the edge of [b]your [/b]'proper' art.[/quote] [quote][b]I [/b]find that, if [b]you [/b]do too many 'lightweight' gigs, when [b]you [/b]go back to the more cerebral music, [b]you [/b]feel stale, sluggish even, and it takes a while to get into 'the zone' again. [b]Your [/b]brain just slows down.[/quote] ...which subjectively hints that you consider your opinion to be a little more than simply a personal perspective and more an absolute truth applicable to all. Hopefully that's not the case, or if it is, you'll need to practise harder at avoiding those kind of slip-ups before your plan for world domination will be a success! [quote]I CAN get a basic (bassic) degree of satisfaction out of knocking out a Tower of Power line, or a James Jamerson line or whatever, but its 10% of the satisfaction I get from doing something creative (original in the sense that it came from within me as a consequence of decades of influences, conscious or unconscious, and the muse of the moment as opposed to learning someone elses dots by rote - I do not mean original as in 'never been played before by anyone else in the universe ever' - how can I know that?).[/quote] Which is fair enough but... [quote]As for quoting 'Pretty Woman' lyrics, BBC - boy meets girl he fancies and she fancies him right back? - WOW!! Now THAT's original!! [/quote] You're talking about your "creative" playing as being original in the sense that it came from within you, of the moment, derived from influences etc. but then criticise a perfectly good lyric. The subject matter may be as old as the hills, but the fact is, no one had ever expressed the boy meets girl story in the way that lyric does. The writer, in the moment, from within, etc. Ring any bells? You're unjustifiably attaching more importance to what you're doing, even if you're not making a direct link from one to the other. That's where opinion slips into pretension.

Would anyone tell an actor that because they're performing in a production of a play that has been performed in 1000s of other prior productions that what they are doing lacks integrity simply because of that fact? As to the bubble-gum nature of some music versus the perceived more worthy nature of other forms... championing the latter, at best, is nothing more than differing opinion, however at worst it's pretentiousness of the highest order.

[quote name='Galilee' post='211767' date='Jun 3 2008, 01:26 PM']* retch * This never happened when I was fronting a thrash band.[/quote] LOL Maybe not in a loved up sense, but how about in a collective "venting of the spleen" sense?

[quote]What they usually want is to dance.[/quote] And there, in a few simple words, is the prime key to success in choosing songs for a covers/function band. A full dance floor makes such a difference to the band's perspective on the songs they do. Even the most done to death and/or cheesiest numbers become enjoyable if the punters are lapping it up. It also helps if you're a fan of songs. Just because something like Pretty Woman gets butchered up and down the country hundreds of times a week, it doesn't take away the fact that it's a great song. If you play a song like you have to play it 'cause it's what the punters want, you're just a butcher. If you can tap into the song in some way though - the groove, the soul, the spirit, the mood etc. - you're going to help make it fresh again and get so much more enjoyment from playing it. When all's said and done, a live band is at it's peak when making a connection with their audience. Are the audience there specifically to see you? If so, congratulations you're doing something right and don't need to be reading this. More likely for most of us though is that most of the audience is there either because that's where they and their friends always are on a Saturday (Thursday, whatever) night or because they happen to be attending the function you're playing at. They're (hopefully) there to have a good time and the fact your band is there is, at the outset, not of great importance to them but most will happily open the door to the possibility of you entertaining them. If there's an area for dancing, as there surely will be, there's your meal ticket. It's a bit simplistic but if you play songs that make the girls want to dance, the girls will have a good time. If the girls are having a good time, the guys will have a good time. And if, at the end of the night, you play "Lady in Red" and there's couples melting into each other everywhere you look, you've helped make that happen. Whatever they are feeling is, in that moment at least, real. And as every note you play intertwines with what they are feeling, you become part of that moment too. You can't tell me there's no integrity in that.

[quote name='7string' post='204649' date='May 22 2008, 11:02 PM']OK, I'm going to ask a really dumb question, just out of pure curiosity... What separates the Laklands from Fenders ??[/quote] Customer service for starters. The first Laklands I had were a pair of 55-01s from Bass Central in Florida. One came with the Gotoh type tuners that were used on the earlier models, which I wasn't too pleased about. One e-mail to Bass Central and I was put in touch with Lakland who, no questions asked, sent me a set of US Hipshot Ultralites and two packs of strings to compensate for the cost of having them fitted. On the same bass, I found the neck was a little too flexible and got a whole bunch of advice from one of their techs. When I said I still wasn't 100% convinced - though I was wondering if it wasn't more down to me being a bit too grippy with my left hand - they offered to send a brand new neck. Being cheeky, I asked if they could make it a fretless one and they duly obliged and sent a new fretless neck complete with tuners. If you use the contact info on the site, you generally hear back from the boss Dan Lakin and if he can't help directly, you get put in touch with someone who can, but whoever it is will assist you to the best of their abilities. Aside from that, the build quality and consistency is much, much better than Fender's. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Lakland without playing it, I would with a Fender. The materials used for the Skyline basses are on a par with Fender US series instruments I would say. Some of the deluxe basses are a site to behold. None of that means that Lakland are perfect, no company is and it's entirely possible that the one Machines played was a dud, a rare dud, but a dud all the same. Then again, maybe it's partly a personal taste thing too. Lightweight isn't for everyone and the Skylines do vary a fair bit in the weight department, though usually tending more towards the heavy end of the scale. "Pasty" maple possibly isn't to everyone's taste either, I happen to quite like it that way and anyway this will vary from bass to bass, especially with the Skylines where the wood used is not selectively chosen for it's aesthetic qualities. I've had some with a ncie figure to them, some which are quite bland. The low end Fenders and Squiers don't feature much in the way of pearl block inlays and bound necks. No nicely dressed frets, no Hipshot Ultralite tuners or string-thru bridges and they'll have cheap pots on them and most will never, even in the hands of a good tech, set-up as well as a Lakland will. If you look at the US made Laklands, you're into a whole different world completely - choice woods, custom colours, hand built quality etc.

I've got some new skin type stuff which I picked up in the US last year just 'cause I'd heard it was good for this kinda thing. Never actually used it though we have used it a couple of times on small cuts and it hurts like no hurt has ever hurt before when you first put it on. I suspect that on a burst blister it would probably not hurt so badly which would mean you could use a bit more of it, enough to get you through a gig without tearing your finger to shreads at least but I wouldn't like to say it would be pain free as the whole point of the stuff is that it seals the skin enough to stop bleeding/seepage while remaining flexible and leaving your sense of touch in tact. Given that you've burst and picked, you're a bit screwed. Maybe get playing again and get a blister to form then quit and don't play again until it goes down, hopefully leaving a thicker layer of skin it's wake. Bigger head room in the amp department = less force needed in the playing department.

I'm using a T-Bone system. 16 switchable frequencies. That plus a set of Shure SC3s is fantastic. All you'll need is either a travel adapter or a 12v DC power supply (got mine on eBay) and you are sorted for about £250. Sounds great and I wouldn't be without mine.

[quote name='ped' post='200223' date='May 16 2008, 10:25 AM']We should start an IEM club... Why do people bother with rigs on stage, eh? ;0)[/quote] Yeah, I honestly can't recommend them enough. You have to make sure you're using them correctly to get the tone you want to hear and you have to give them a fair crack of the whip and not simply give up after two gigs. It took about 10 gigs to get comfortable wearing them and about another 10 before I could consistenly got the sound I wanted. No looking back now though, on the few occasions where there's been too much interference to be able to use them I've really noticed how much more effort I have to put into my playing, how many of the subtleties and nuances have to get sacrificed and how jaded my ears are when it's all over. Have just acquired a decent road-usable condenser mic which I'm gonna use to add some room ambience to the IEM mix this weekend so quite looking forward to how that will hopefully enhance the experience.

In ear monitoring is the best thing I ever did. I use the Thomann T-Bone IEM system which cost about £165 and a set of Shure SCL-3 (previously used E3c, but these got nicked) which cost about £110. We've enough aux sends on the PA that I can get an individual mix, but failing that the transmitter has L/R phono ins and a seperate line in, both with level control so you could just take the FOH mix into the stereo ins and add a line in from your bass and twiddle the knobs to get a balance you're happy with. No more competing to hear yourself as you'd like which means less digging in when you're playing which means less trouble with cramping and more efficient technique which makes for potentially faster playing. No more ringing ears post-gig and/or tired ears. Does wonders for your singing too 'cause you can hear yourself so much better.

Without fail, once a gig I will misjudge the distance between my noggin and my mic in one of two ways. Either it involves a hasty dash to catch word two of the chorus or being in heads down, no nonsense boogie mode and smacking my noggin on the mic when I come up for air. All 'cause I'm not paying attention to where I am on the stage.

Selling my studio as going to go the computer route. This thing is great, ideal all-in-one solution for quality recordings. Theytend to retail at around £850. £1 starting price and no reserve if anyone fancies a flutter [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330234248723"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=330234248723[/url] Or if someone wants to make me a serious offer send me a PM.

[quote name='Mikey D' post='190761' date='May 2 2008, 06:08 PM']It's a fair comment that you can feel the swing in that pattern, but If that is how I was to practice swing, I would go mad. Maybe he was wondering (as I am) that you wouldn't typically play jazz with that feel, so why would you practice it with that feel!? The emphasis is on 2 and 4, thus it is better to practice with the metronome/drum machine sound/whatever on those beats.[/quote] [quote name='Mikey D' post='190770' date='May 2 2008, 06:13 PM']Exactly, but i think the point is having what is seen as basically a simple rock groove in 4 on the drum machine, while walking along. I know any of my tutors would have words of advice for me if that is how I practiced.[/quote] [quote name='jakesbass' post='190772' date='May 2 2008, 06:14 PM']ah yes Mikey, didn't read the op thoroughly. Cheers Jake[/quote] The point wasn't to say that I would practise swing to that beat at all and I don't believe I said that anywhere! Perhaps I didn't express myself very well. All I said was that I could play it that way. My actual point though was more that a rhythm that is simple, straight (using that term in it's loosest sense) and little more than metronomic only serves as the foundation for what you hear/feel/play. For a very simple example. I could take that beat and play the bass part from Spirit in the Sky and still get the bouncy feel of the original. My drummer friend didn't accept that you can achieve that feel without having all the other rhythmic parts in place. I accept that you aren't going to duplicate the overall feel precisely without duplicating all the contributing parts precisely, but his contention was more that, without them, it's just a beat and someone playing one note per beat on top of it. Have to say Mikey, your response was borderline close to the kind of response that my drummer friend would come up with. Looking a bit to much at the technicalities of it and missing the actual, far more conceptual, point. [quote name='Astronomer' post='190865' date='May 2 2008, 09:15 PM']The way you describe your drummer friend makes him sound like more of a technician, rather than a musician. He has no concept, no imagination, of what might be played over his beat. He has no idea of groove. It's not part of his toolbox. If this is the case, then no, he won't hear/feel a "groove". We, on the other hand, are the next step up from drums (that sounds terrible, but I hope you know what I mean). We listen to a beat, and THEN we can feel the groove because we can imagine and feel what would work on top of it, and THEN we play something over it. I think most bass players, at any level, are more musician than technician, and that is I think what makes the critical difference here. Someone who knows what they're talking about will be along shortly. [/quote] In fairness to him, he does groove well, but he's arrived at where he's at from an almost wholly academic route so his ability to groove comes from deconstruction rather than absorbtion. Give him something to play along with and he picks up the groove great. Try to explain the feel of a song to him, not so great. Tell him he's not getting paid unless he's learned the song properly and he'll come back with charts galore and pretty much nail it exactly like the record first time you play it. [quote name='silverfoxnik' post='190922' date='May 2 2008, 10:52 PM']I'm totally with you on this one Pete - i kind of do the same when sitting in the car and the indicators are flashing... Machines are there to be 'metronomic' and humans are there to put in the feel and the swing.. [/quote] Yes, this is mroe where I'm coming from.

A few years back I was having a conversation with a drummer friend of mine who is annoyingly good for his age, but whose chops have come primarily through formal education and loads of theoretical practice. As good a drummer as he can be, some of the more intangible aspects of performing (in contrast to simply playing) can get him wound up. During this conversation one of these aspects came up and it has bugged me ever since to know whether I was off the mark or talking sense and, if I was making sense, is it a bass player thing that other's just don't get or rather something he just couldn't get. What caused it all was that I said I can listen to a click track playing four beats to the bar or even a simple drum part - eg kick on 1&3, snare 2&4, ride bell on each beat - and play along, quarter notes, and hear/feel the groove swing. He was utterly baffled by this. Am I mad?

Good thread. For my money, there's nothing really wrong with the way the OP is doing it so long as you have the aptitude for learning things that way and prefer a strictly modular approach to your bass playing education. Loads of great suggestions too from others. For the most complete solution, I would recommend looking at a book/books that deal with fingerboard harmony along with harmony and theory or look into lessons with a tutor who can instruct you in these areas, that way you get the best of both worlds all rolled up in one. You'll learn scales, modes, chords (and arpeggios) along with the note names and how they each relate to one another. As I said though, nothing wrong with just learning the names of the notes/frets individually, in fact that's what I did many moons ago. Although doing it this way won't explain to you why sometimes it's a Bb and sometimes it's an A# etc. Even having learned the theory behind the naming of notes, unless I'm thinking in terms of the key of the song, my first instinct is to say F# ahead of Gb, G# ahead of Ab, Bb ahead of A#, C# ahead of Db and Eb ahead of D#.