drTStingray

When I first heard it I thought it was called I Want Pies! Misheard it!! It's not in the excellent 'Level 42 Bass Book' unfortunately.

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1408785399' post='2533409'] Omar Hakim-Drums Mino Cinélu – Percussion David Rhodes – Guitar Friðrik Karlsson – Guitar John Giblin – Bass Jon Carin – Keyboards Kevin McAlea – Keyboards Jacqui Dubois – Backing vocals Sandra Marvin – Backing vocals [/quote] Wow that will be great!! Wasn't John Giblin the original fretless player on the late 70s stuff? I watched a couple of the programmes bbc4 ran on Kate Bush last night and whilst I remembered fretless being on the early major hits not having listened to the songs for years, I'd forgotten just how much it contributes to the sound - chorus laden as well!

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1408711946' post='2532837'] That is true.... but I did say that EB aren't alone in this. It is a business decision of many many companies to ship build from the Far East. This isn't about better QC..it is about CHEAPER QC as those places are cheaper to build in. Simple. Now, some companies might split and have an entry level line and a U.S/western build line so this does, IMO dilute the marque. I don't think a £600 far east product is necessarily poor in itself, but they make far more profit selling a £600 bass made in the far est than they do made in the West, paying western salaries. You can outsource pretty much anything, but sooner or later you are going to put a lot of people out of work getting it made cheaper elsewhere. This is why I say it cheapens the Marque as the MAIN beneficies are the 'Shareholders'. I use the term shareholder loosely as it may well be a privately owned company..so consider that a euphermism for 'MAXIMUM PROFIT' But back to the core point, it is not solely EB's fault, I apply this thinking to all my kit and I don't own any amp, cab or bass made in the Far East. [/quote] The thing this does do is to open up the opportunity for people to buy into a sub-set of the marque at a lower price point - after which some people may hanker after the real thing and buy into the original marque. On the question of SBMM basses (as opposed to SBMM Sub) IIRC they are assembled from parts made in and shipped from the US and then checked for set up etc by Praxis after completion whereas the SBMM subs do not have US parts. EBMM have been v careful to protect their Musicman customers and the marque by making these basses have slightly different dimensions thus avoiding people concocting MM basses from them (although some very obvious fakes have appeared on EBay which no doubt started off as the cheaper copies). Not sure how much extra profit they make but it increases market turnover and penetration and tends to combat competitors marketing cheap MM copies. EBMM is a family owned company AFAIK and is not a corporation, say like Fender. This probably means they can respond more readily to customer requirements.

The US Sterling also has single coil and series/parallel switching. The Stingray has Alnico pick up/pick ups (the SR5 from circa 1992-2008 has ceramic with the same switching as the sterling - which started in 1994 IIRC). If you're talking about the sub SBMM then not sure what fits as the dimensions are slightly different from a Stingray but there are several aftermarket pick ups and EQs available. The regular SBMM has electronics much more comparable with the US version. They mostly have cheaper hardware etc (the tuners being a major difference).

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1408695871' post='2532542'] I do think the Subs and Sterlings are laughable efforts, tbh. Cheap and cheerful tho.. [/quote] Come on........the Sub SBMM is an entry level bass and the SBMM a mid price range version of three or four US basses. They're all perfectly well built and solid basses - a parallel there in a market sense with the comparable Squire and MIM versions of Fenders.

[quote name='martthebass' timestamp='1408646280' post='2532228'] Easy to generalise, a Ray can be rock solid at the deep end with us eof the pre and the amp. Hell, even a Rick can be made to sound good using this ;-) [/quote] Saw a show which used variously two Fenders, a Hofner and a Rick - guess what the Ric sounded best - more bassy and more defined!! One of the main reasons people started using active basses in the 70s was that basses of the era could not provide more bass boost when asked (eg in the studio).

For anyone who wants to hear how EB Musicman basses sound in skilled hands watch Ed Friedland's video reviews as the Bass Whisperer. Dispels umpteen internet myths in one go concerning sound and flexibility. Now I have six of these basses and a seventh on order (I'm beginning to worry after watching a TV prog about compulsive shoppers!!). I first became a fan in the late seventies and bought a brand new Stingray after having my heart set on a natural Precision since I started playing - what drew me to the Stingray? 1) Sound was fabulous and so responsive 2) being blessed with smallish hands and at that time not good technique, I found the Ray neck profile fitted me well, whereas a Precision did not and a Jazz was too small - they got the profile dead right for me - one of the biggest disappointments I ever experienced in a bass sense was picking up a sixties (late) Precision and not being able to play it properly for that reason. 3) it looked brilliant - v high gloss 3 tone sunburst. 4) it came with a maple fingerboard, which I was set on. 5) weight was on a par with a Fender 6) Fenders had become quite uncool by the late 70s/early 80s - the last thing I wanted to do was emulate the Shadows - for a child of the sixties liking something your dad liked was a no no - he hated the Stones, the Who and Hendrix which was cool with me - he could tolerate the Shadows. So how have I become an enthusiast - well the necks are still fabulous for me - even more so the 5 string versions. Each one is hand finished so there are minor differences between basses but all of mine fit like a glove. The sound still brings a big smile to my face. The fit and finish is brilliant - these days weight is an issue for me but thankfully these basses balance so well that on a decent wide and padded strap even my well over 10 lbs SR5 is good for two 45 minute sets without problem - the others are lighter. The Sr5 has a gorgeous natural finish so is my Bernard Edwards tribute bass and it has a fabulous deep and growly tone (it's ceramic pu). The one bass which gets most attention if I use it is the Bongo - from both musicians and non musicians. The looks get very positive and admiring comments - those who don't know think it's a custom order high cost boutique model - well of course it is two of them - and you get a decent colour choice, various fingerboard options and on the Stingray, wide or narrow neck width - the profile on the Classic is fabulous. Consistent product - I've ordered blind four times now and bought used 3 times - all are great and do what I expected of them. What else is good about them - exceptional customer service and after care. It never ceases to amaze me how some manufacturers get away with offering non existent customer service profile and inconsistent product - incredible - I mean who's ever heard of people trying five toasters before they get 'the one' - the same with cars! Barmy if you ask me. Those who have said it are quite right - some people can sound dreadful on them - worse still I've heard some other people sound dreadful on my own instrument(s)!!! I got one of them sorted by adjusting amp and bass EQ for them. However these basses are much more dynamic than some and respond to technique - and the old adage that give a limited player a very expensive bass like a Fodera they will sound exactly that - except because you can hear it that much better it actually accentuates any technique issues. Getting into nuances, the various body woods used over the years affect the sound. An ash bodied Ray with a maple board sounds different from a rosewood. Poplar bodies (as per USA Sub or some 90s solid colours or blueburst (I now have one of these) sound a little smoother. The basswood body of the Bongo also contributes to the sound (compare with a Big Al - mahogany body) or Reflex (ash body with mahogany tone block) - expanded version of the 4 band EQ with coil tapping (Bongo has pick up pan) - they sound quite different. I can understand someone not liking an MM if they love Warwicks - I love the Warwick sound and look but can't stand the necks - the MM is far closer neck and feel wise to Fender territory - however I believe my Classic Ray to be on a par with a custom shop instrument. For those who don't know, MM (and indeed every other manufacturer) make far fewer instruments than Fender, which is a true mass production operation. Only Gibson are in that ball park. So I don't know where this idea of 'mass production feel' comes from. There are many reasons why they don't. We have to accept we all have different views - a Stingray is not some people's choice (but maybe people should try another model before writing the manufacturer off!!). I love Wal basses as well but I know quite a lot on here think they're rubbish and prefer a Fender - we'll have to agree to differ I'm afraid!! Come full circle, and playing at one time in a Shadows tribute band, the bass sound I achieved with my Classic Ray (in the 'right' colour as well!!) got some very positive (actually glowing) comments from respected officianados (and if you've never done it, it's an eye opener and also initially rather scary coming under such scrutiny by other musicians). Of course the non musician punters hadn't a clue my bass wasn't an authentic make for the band - we did do some 70s/80s stuff however - I even used the Bongo (with permission!!!) for two songs once!!!!

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1407952518' post='2525717'] In that case id just get a ebmm Sterling instead if you want the jazz nut [/quote] You could get a Stingray SLO special (regular US Stingray with narrow neck like the Sterling). Even rarer though!

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1407593923' post='2522145'] If Suzi Quatro is someones favourite bass player then that is fine - I have fond recollections of her myself- but don't try and tell me it is because of anything she has ever played on the bass guitar. [/quote] That's how I thought until I re listened to Devil Gate Drive recently and noticed the bass had a particularly pleasant bubbly groove and pleasant hot sound compared to some of the other 'Chinnichap' fare of the era. [quote name = 'Dingus' timestamp='1407593923' post='2522145'] Naming names, there is nothing particularly special or appealing about Tal Wickenfield's playing to my ear. If she was a bloke, she probably would still be a complete unknown. [/quote] Strangely, that's how I felt until I recently re listened to/watched several You Tube performances of her with Jeff Beck and Herbie Hancock. She can groove phenomenally and also solo and I also like her sound on the Sadowski. My conclusion is I didn't give these ladies enough of a listen in the first place, possibly for reasons other than being too fixated, for instance on Jeff Beck's guitar playing, fabulous though that is. Neither are my favourite bass players, I hasten to add.

Tal Walkenfield - such groove and soloing skills - fabulous. I will also confess to owning a very large wall poster of Suzi Quattro playing a Fender bass (although it's hidden away in a box somewhere) - had it since about 1973 ish!!

I'm a great fan of Tal Walkenfield, Gail Ann Dorsey, Ellen O'Reilly and Suzi Quattro. Having watched and listened to the footage of Tal with Jeff Beck and Vinnie Coliuta, I watched her play on Chamelion with Herbie Hancock - talk about groove!! I have tried to learn from it and there are some nice ideas there :-)

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1407327824' post='2519450'] I probably shouldn't have pulled the original preamp out then, lol [/quote] Your bass, your choice. The East version is said to replicate the 1977 version of the pre amp whereas the standard is based on the 1979 version - I'm guessing you kept the original so you can revert back if you wanted to sell it.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1407274757' post='2519155'] You know it makes sense Serial came back as May 5th 2010 on mine drT so just a bit older than yours but still early, birds eye neck and confirmed as tobacco not retro burst. [/quote] Indeed it makes sense :-) Your 5er is extremely early Pete, must be one of the first in this country. Musicman said from the outset they would rotate the colours available and retro burst started along with natural in the second or third year of production (the colour and format of the burst copied from original bass 28 from the 1976 production which is owned by the CEO and is pictured on the Musicman.org website somewhere). The original burst offered was tobacco burst as your bass. The pastel colours stopped after the first year or less of production.

Mine is April 2010. They were introduced at NAMM 2010, Jan 2010 with pre production/prototype basses at the end of 2009. Some of the 2009 basses had standard oil and wax finish necks as the figured and finished necks were originally going to be an option.

Congrats lovely bass. Hope you enjoy.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1406925255' post='2516030'] I think my classic is an early one too, not checked the serial though, does is have to be done through the ebmm forum still? Dont you think the sealed finish helps a little or do you think the higher grade maple is what keeps them stable? [/quote] Not sure - one of the 'arguments' like body wood makes no difference v it makes a difference on electric instruments is the one that says figured wood and especially birds eye maple is less stable - seems to have come from luthiers in the 90s. I've never had a problem with mine and one is over 20 yrs old. I also have a Sabre on order which will have a figured roasted maple neck with an oil and wax neck finish - I'm guessing the roasting process adds stability so enables a non lacquered finish. I have also heard that the EBMM process of taking a maple fingerboard from the same piece of wood as the neck and gluing it to the front of the neck creates a very stable structure. As for the age of your classic, to get a DOB you would have to ask EBMM customer services by email or post in the thread on the forum. You could have a look back through the thread and find one with a nearby number to get an estimation but the serials are often not consecutive especially of limited editions.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1406925255' post='2516030'] I think my classic is an early one too, not checked the serial though, does is have to be done through the ebmm forum still? Dont you think the sealed finish helps a little or do you think the higher grade maple is what keeps them stable? [/quote] Not sure - one of the 'arguments' like body wood makes no difference v it makes a difference on electric instruments is the one that says figured wood and especially birds eye maple is less stable - seems to have come from luthiers in the 90s. I've never had a problem with mine and one is over 20 yrs old. As for the age of your classic to get a DOB you would have to ask EBMM customer services by email or post in the thread on the forum.

Boring - Albatross - Fleetwood Mac Difficult - keeping it in time is not a breeze especially if you or the drummer glaze over during it. Hardest - well I can do Teen Town ok after about five years of practice but have never been able to master that sequencer-esque bass part of Pastorius in the latter part of River People (both tracks by Weather Report) - it makes my brain and fingers turn to jelly :-/ and what's more irritating is my son can play it straight off without problem.......

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1406913654' post='2515905'] I have seen more faulty sandberg threads than ebmm threads, when you take into account how many more basses ebmm must sell than sandberg that is a tick for ebmm imo, there are currently two faulty sandberg threads right now but im struggling to recall any recent ebmm ones, last one was a twisted neck where everyone slated ebmm on here even though it was a used bass bought via a private sale. [/quote] Agreed - and even that was resolved with assistance from the manufacturer. There've been one or two issues re fret sprout on Talkbass but these were basses which had been hung on the wall in shops during the coldest weather ever recorded in US - and EBMM was by no means not the only manufacturer affected. I've never had an issue with an EBMM bass - I have six of them and indeed I'm constantly amazed that I can take say my SR5 out to a gig after it's sat in its case for six months in changeable temperature conditions and I find it's still in tune!! Same with the Classic Ray (mine was one of the first in Uk - early/mid 2010) - the startlingly figured maple neck has had no bearing on the stability of the neck to date - I suspect the lacquer assists.

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1406672129' post='2513691'] not arguing with you there... but that only means "stay away from the forum". [/quote] Fine but the original idea that the EBMM forum is full of psychos, and by association people who play Musicman basses are psychos is of course a baseless load of nonsense developed by a few idiots and their mates who got themselves banned from it for very good reason, now populating general fora like this one and moaning. Have no fear, the loonies were banned years ago and for the most part they thoroughly deserved it. There's several people who've replied to this thread who are perfectly level headed and also members of the EBMM forum and play Musicman basses, so let's stop throwing idiotic insults at people eh folks? We re meant to be grown ups after all ;-) The Musicman forum is generally frequented by Musicman bass enthusiasts (surprise surprise......) - as McNach says you don't have to go there - however I've personally often found it a helpful way of gaining/sharing info and not at all intimidating!! Sorry to go off topic but threads about Musicman basses invariably throw up this nonsense and believe me it's just that - total nonsense.

A 2 or 3 band Musicman Stingray used would sound great - just have to remember to play over the neck joint to get those hollow Beatles bass sounds. Or a second hand Stingray 5 - even more variation.

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' timestamp='1406499511' post='2512009'] In the words of Del Boy.... [i][b]"I'll make a note of that in my Filofax"[/b][/i] [/quote] Ha ha!! Good idea :-)

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' timestamp='1406180937' post='2509024'] Yeah, so was the one I had. Couldn't tell the difference between that and another ash body I tried later [/quote] Gents - the very first production Big Al basses were alder. Later changed to mahogany, which they still are (for weight reasons) - I once tried a 4 string acoustically and it was very nice - well balanced and very resonant (and it was an alder one). And yes your original trans red SR5 was almost certainly an alder body whereas your 2002 may have been ash. The ceramic version is bloody great - in parallel setting sounds classic Stingray but series - powerful or what!! I've never sold or contemplated selling a Musicman bass (despite people approaching me and offering to buy at least two of them) - oo I tell a lie as I sold my pre EB Ray in the late 80s - had it from new and got 150% of the new price (it was £350 brand new for anyone interested :-) ) I must have your financial touch Fran!!!

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1406461697' post='2511597'] And the EBMM forum is full of psychos. [/quote] Bwahahahahahaha (screams manically).......... I would say if you lust after a Ray then nothing else is going to scratch that itch. I've played two gigs today - one with a 2 band Ray and one with a Bongo - both were fabulous but the 2 band Classic Ray is soooooo good!!

Bought a blueburst Stingray from James last week - lovely bass and straightforward purchase. Great guy to deal with and spent a while chatting and noodling on his Sadowsky (which is a gorgeous bass if he ever sells it!!). Highly recommended seller.