drTStingray

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1406461697' post='2511597']
And the EBMM forum is full of psychos.
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Bwahahahahahaha (screams manically)..........

I would say if you lust after a Ray then nothing else is going to scratch that itch.

I've played two gigs today - one with a 2 band Ray and one with a Bongo - both were fabulous but the 2 band Classic Ray is soooooo good!!

Bought a blueburst Stingray from James last week - lovely bass and straightforward purchase. Great guy to deal with and spent a while chatting and noodling on his Sadowsky (which is a gorgeous bass if he ever sells it!!). Highly recommended seller.

[quote name='chriswareham' timestamp='1405704919' post='2504550']
Numan rates this as one of two low points in his career (the other being the Machine + Soul era). He subsequently stated that he wanted to compensate for his lack of confidence in his own technical abilities by getting in great session players, but that the result wasn't very satisfying. Personally, I love the "Music For Chameleons" single from this era, but find the rest of the "I Assassin" album to be a turgid mess.
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I'm not an expert on the subject but I didn't think Pino was that well known at this time - the Numan album predated his work with Paul Young. I read that Pino was brought in because of some disagreement with Mick Karn, I think on the album reissue sleeve notes. Wasn't Pino in Jools Holland's band with David Sanborn at this time in NY? Interestingly a very youthful Jools interviews Numans mum and dad on the clip, his mum bemoaning the size of the bass player's feet and the lack of suitable shoes in the US (being responsible for the band's clothes)!!

A used Ray 34 or 35 or even occasionally a used Stingray may crop up for that value on here or EBay. There was a Ray 35 in the classifieds here for £550 in trans white - v smart and great bass - should cover the genres you mention if you want to go 5 string.

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1404896796' post='2496703']

I have no idea what Led Zeppelin 5 is as i only go up to Led Zeppelin IV. It's all downhill for me after that. I can't help but think of ELO as middle of the road pop bought by kids and housewives in the 70s. Nothing wrong with a bit of MOR pop but hardly the cutting edge of rock and was certainly not highly regarded by me or anyone i knew. On saying that i wouldn't expect anyone to like what i like (but then again i couldn't care less if they didn't).
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I also go as far as Led Zep 4. The first and second ELO albums are about as far from MOR pop as is possible - I was a fan back then largely because of exposure to them through friends (all of whom could be described in hindsight as prog fans - that term wasn't invented back then) - as a group of mates we were all into Camel, Greenslade, Egg, Hatfield and the North, Yes etc etc and ELO were very much part of that era's rock music - saw them live in about 1971 or 2 and they were great - even doing a phenomenal version of Roll Over Beethoven. They became more of a crossover band later in the 70s with strings of chart hits like Mr Blue Sky. But to call them MOR is like calling Level 42 MOR on the basis they had chart hits of a more pop-py nature than their albums!!.

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1404899212' post='2496740']

If you find it hard to picture then may i suggest that you read a little on the history of Motown and what was happening in Detroit at that time. Many white musicians, arrangers, writers and performers were at Motown in the 60s. There are a couple of good books and a DVD that give a good idea of what was happening in Detroit both musically and politically in the 60s. By 1967 and the time of the riots there were singers like Chris Clark, singer, producer and writer R Dean Taylor, session players Bob Babbitt and Dennis Coffey and the songwriting team Lori Burton and Pamela Sawyer (from Romford, Essex) just to name a few at Motown. Also the Detroit Symphony Orchestra played on numerous recordings and even released two LPs under the name of the Same Remo Golden Strings with the Funk Brothers.

http://youtu.be/g7fCiGjm9Ec
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Well I've read Standing in the Shadows of Motown and learned about 40 of the songs and picked up lots of info on previous documentaries and articles.

I still find the Carol Kaye input inconceivable back as early as 1964 but if someone has further info then fine.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1404816282' post='2495909']


It was a factory. Just like no-one cares who bolted the doors on a car the actual musicians on the records were largely irrelevant at the time.

The import things were (in order):
1. The Record Label
2. The Songwriters
3. The Singers actually named on the record sleeve/label

[/quote]

I think Motown knew well the value of the whole Motown sound and package - the musicians/ orchestra used were an integral part of that sound and from what I've read the musicians were paid well for their work. Until Jamerson clones appeared they needed to use him (and did - apparently sometimes not in the best of states). The band also went on the road with the stars which posed a problem for keeping the hit factory going.

That is why through the sixties at least the same group of players were on most of the recordings and Jamerson and to a lesser extent Babbitt appear on most recordings. Babbitt's playing was, to my ears, subtly different eg Signed Sealed Delivered (Stevie Wonder) and a later example - Inner City Blues (Marvin Gaye). I love both of their styles and have freely allowed them to influence and pervade my own playing shamelessly!!!

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1404768838' post='2495617']

I still think that ABBA are the height of naff and up there with ELO for kings (and queens) of bland. I always thought of them as an equal to Boney M. The passing years haven't made them sound any better to me. Led Zeppelin to me were grand old farts of rock in the 70s and so out of kilter of what was happening in music. A mantle that Queen admirably took over later. For anyone i knew around the music scene in the mid to late 70s Led Zeppelin were most definitely yesterday's heroes.
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I couldn't disagree with you more apart from the view on Led Zeppelin - but they were surely gods of rock music/modified blues rock until Led Zeppelin 5? Boney M were totally dreadful and formulaic Euro Pop - their strings sound really was the bottom of the barrel. But how dare you dis ELO - they were superb and highly regarded at the time - a true crossover act between rock music lovers and pop chart music!!! One of the most exciting live acts I ever saw!

Back on topic - I find it extremely hard to picture Carol Kaye breezing into the Motown studio to do I Can't Help Myself - we are talking 1964 and boiling race relations and US culture of the time. I was once told Lemmy played on some 70s Philly hits and I didn't believe that either!! I suppose it's conceivable she could have been on a demo but if on any at all, surely more likely to have been involved post the Motown move to California - but I still can't think of any famous tracks which have her style of playing.

I confess to having played there and gone to see bands there in the 70s - they had a wall with posters and I have a photo of it somewhere - included such people as Magnum IIRC.

[quote name='JazzBassfreak' timestamp='1404685666' post='2494775']


Believe it or not, I already know this, I've been bought up by my parents on Motown and Soul. However i like most music. Apart from the rubbish that is coming out these days that is labelled as "R'N'B" which subsequently is nothing like rhythm and blues and is ultimately rap. Unfortunately for the people who disagree, I'm allowed my own opinion. As is everyone else. Oh and it's not your place to dictate what I'm educated on and what I'm not after all, I'm only a personality behind random text over a forum about basses
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You would have been hard pressed to hear much Motown and Soul back then other than the big hit singles like Baby Love etc. My recollection of tele programmes other than Ready Steady Go, Top of the Pops and Thank Your Lucky Stars was of Nina and Frederick, Val Doonican and the like - and The Spinners (not the Detroit ones). Totally MoR stuff!!

You would also have been hard pressed to hear any of the bass parts on pop music back them also as it was largely in mono played through very low fi transistor radio, and not even broadcast in FM, or maybe listened to by people congregated around Dansette portable record players with slightly better, but still pretty poor reproduction. Although stereo records were available in the 60s most people didn't have stereo audio equipment until the 70s, which began a quest for ever better sound quality.

The early/mid 60s was very much an era of tinny sounding music with particularly tinny sounding guitars until the Hendix/Page/Lee/Green era of guitarists. Motown had exciting bass playing (this is how I recalled it as a lover of what was called 'progressive' music at the time - most of my mates turned their noses up at Motown as mere pop music - incomparable with the likes of Floyd, Cream, Fleetwood Mac, the Nice etc - and Motown tended to have a skinhead audience along with Reggae - Motown Chartbusters Vol 3 was a particular favourite at the end of the 60s... There was also a Caribbean audience - but skinheads were totally associated with street violence so liking Motown was not an option for most hippyish music lovers of that time) .

Things were no doubt different in the US, but even there Motown would not have got played on mainstream radio in the mid 60s because the country had racial segregation which pervaded its music industry/radio also.

My children grew up listening to a wide range of rock, soul and funk but had the advantage of being able to hear all of it in stereo and the earlier stuff often remastered - totally different from how it was in the 60s.

I love all these programmes about Motown - Jamerson, Babbitt and Felder are great as is the whole Funk Brothers orchestra - and no one knew about them until comparatively recently.

[quote name='police squad' timestamp='1404556478' post='2493677']
Found out yesterday that the legend 'Eric Snowball' has passed away. His shop had been around since the 60s and nearly everyone I know has bought gear from him.
Notorious in the trade, great sense of humour.

RIP Eric
[/quote]

+ 1 legendary guy in these parts and most of the musos I know have either roadied for him doing PA for major acts like Kool and the Gang back in the 70s, bought something from him, had something made by him or played with him - he was an awesome pedal steel player.

I bought an Ashdown MAG 300 rig off him when they first came out and still have and use some speakon leads he made up one lunch time for me - seemingly loved doing it as he refused to accept any payment for the leads!!

Will be missed by many - especially the guys from the 60s music scene - RIP.

I would have stuck around to ensure having a key role in the mixing. People can take and also waste a lot of time doing endless overdubs and there comes a time when less is more. However adding or tidying up solos and backing vocals is understandable. If you're all contributing equally financially, then if individuals are becoming over extravagant with time they are basically spending everyone else's money - something to bear in mind.

However it's very useful to stay involved - although you're 'just the bass player' it's useful to bear in mind that as with defenders and goalkeepers at football (they are often the captain) you see everything going on around you, something the singers and lead instrumentalists don't so even if you're not playing anything just being there you can make a contribution.

I hope it turns out how you want. You're paying as well as being a band member so you have as much right to be happy with the outcome as everyone else.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1404242286' post='2490773']


This is what I was alluding to earlier. Prepare to be surprised...





[url="http://www.scribd.com/doc/16571113/BVbass2"]source[/url]




[url="http://www.talkbass.com/threads/bassist-on-black-velvet-cool-fretless-stuff.120693/page-3#post-8196982"]Source[/url]
[/quote]

Well I'll be ...............

Very surprising! Clever that he made it sound like a bass guitar.

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1404240880' post='2490759']
I heard that the baseline was played on a Korg M1...

...I don't mind though.
[/quote]

I would be rather surprised given the type of fills and the swell of the notes, particularly in the slow bits.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1404238138' post='2490716']


*whispers*

Who's going to tell him?
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I've already been told I play too f**kin loud if that's what you mean lol! Can't stand bass mixed low - its what makes people dance and the ladies swoon - ask Dingus he ll tell you :-)

It's got a stand out bass sound and upfront bass part so bass players who like a challenge should enjoy it. I played it once only before in a covers band I was depping for and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Things in its favour are raunchy female vocals, bluesy rock vibe and best of all (for a covers band) it was in the charts so audiences know it and tend to remember it. It went down well when The band I depped for played it.

Not for the indie mob or anyone who thinks the bass should be mixed down and the guitars and tinny parts of the drum kit up. I reckon you'd need something like a Wal to do it full justice - bass as it should sound IMO.

[quote name='merello' timestamp='1403992823' post='2488442']
Trujillo is an absolute monster on the bass.
[/quote]

Certainly is - some stunning guitar and drumming as well - I began to think it was my tele but I couldn't hear much of what Trujillo was playing - I then relented and watched Bryan Ferry at the request of Mrs drT - first song contained a couple of one bar breaks where individual instruments featured and the one with the bass was a laugh because it was almost inaudible. It's not my tele - they changed the mix after the first song - it's all now pretty impressive and the bass sounds great - shock horror a bass solo also - is it Guy Pratt?

[quote name='Pinball' timestamp='1402686584' post='2476040']
Well it arrived....ooh dear.

It was just in a soft case and someone put something heavy on it. As a result the neck is angled 15 degrees further forward than it should be and some of the neck plate screws were pulled out. The action is a tad out...stings are a bit slack

Don't worry the damage is covered
[/quote]

Ouch - sorry to hear that - are you getting it fixed or replacing it?

[quote name='iconic' timestamp='1402692280' post='2476099']
Do you need a stingray?.....only if you don't need a G string....great 3 string though.
[/quote]

You must have been misusing it - I never have this problem and I've got four of them. If anything my HH has slightly too much on the G string. This problem is just as possible on any bass, and more likely on a two pick up bass like a jazz if too scooped a sound is dialled in. This will lose ( to the player) the sound of the higher strings. The Stingray can be over-scooped through amp and EQ settings ( just as any other bass) but I guarantee the audience will never have a problem hearing the notes being played on it - whatever the string in use.

Everyone needs a Stingray..............and a Bongo!

Congrats - nice bass - remember the blade switch position at the bridge end is parallel wiring and classic Stingray sound - and towards the neck is series which is a fattened up tone with more mids. Centre is series with filter (to replicate single coil).

[quote name='Telebass' timestamp='1402062200' post='2469679']

I remember that. The first time round!
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Me too - strange ad IIRC.

However I played my Bongo 5HHp again at a gig this week - blues band in a small pub blues club environment - all I can say is stunning - absolutely stunning. No one gets near the headstock - could have your eye out - great interest in the bass guitar again from members of the audience! First point is always the sound - second the stunning looks. Attracts admiration on every gig it seems.

[quote name='Chiliwailer' timestamp='1402089622' post='2470056']
Hi foiks,

Looking for suggestions so I'm wondering what tunes you like playing on a fretless?

(I've had a peek and I can't see a thread that's similar to this one - please direct me though if I'm just repeating one!).

Cheers!


[/quote]

I Feel like making love and I can't get enough of your love - Bad Company

A Pastorius one which springs to mind is The Dry Cleaner from Des Mois (Joni Mitchell) - the live one is fretless at least I think.

I used my Bongo 5HHp at a pub gig (posh country one) Saturday night. The Sound was great and for a jazzy song with a walking bass line id dialled in 70% piezo 30% magnetic. And the icing on the cake - on their way out a group of the audience came up to me enthusing about the Bongo and asking what make it is. They said it looked fabulous - a modern take on a classic shape. I think it's only other bass players who don't like them.......and maybe even they are mellowing!! ;-)

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1401553992' post='2464709']
Singles have the better chance of character in the sound whilst the thicker humbuckers are fuller and louder which is not always what you want, IMO.
It tends to be the same re active and passive. The extra oomph can often be required and appreciated but in an ideal world the best chance of the better tone lies with the thinner sound of singles and when you get to a gig where you need to make the very least amount of compromises you go passive and single for this reason. IMO.
[/quote]

I see where you're coming from but the idea that humbuckers can only be brash and loud is a huge over-simplification. Take a Gibson Les Paul - it doesn't have to always be Paul Kossof or jimmy page style sound - how about Les Paul himself - very smooth and jazzy sounding. It's the same with bass - it doesn't have to be Flea sound with a humbucker.

Similarly with active/passive.

I used my bongo at a gig last night (twin H) - yes very powerful if required but quite tameable with playing technique - and for those jazz songs simply dialled in a higher level of piezzo/lower level of magnetic. Piezzo is well worth having.

Whilst bass guitar tone can obviously be heard in a band format by the audience, the level and nuance is far less than, say a lead guitar. It's more an issue of what level is heard rather than the nuances of tone (far more than us bass players would like to think it is!!). Bass guitar is fairly inaudible (in comparison with 70s, 80s, 90s and early 00s) in many modern music mixes.

Some interesting posts in this thread, which seem to be almost entirely Fender orientated.

Probably the most famous humbuckers on basses are the Gibson (sometimes called mud bucker owing to bridge position - I don't know whether this is justified or not having no experience of them - two of the great players of all time used them.....) and Musicman, originally Leo Fender's company (starting with the Stingray in 1976).

The humbucker(s) on 4 string Stingrays are wired in parallel and combined with the active pre amp create a crystal clear, and probably one of the best slap sounds, similar for pick style and a low mid heavy finger style bass sound. They totally sink any preconception that humbuckers create a muddy sound. The neck H on 2 pick up versions of these basses fattens up the bass response and with the coil selection provided enables the pick ups to be selected in single coil mode. Musicman's revered reputation in the bass world is built around humbuckers (SR5, Sterling, Bongo). More recently they have perfected a noiseless single coil which is offered on most models at neck position (and in a 3 single coil Strat style on the big al).

So when you say single coil I think of Fender, humbucker as Musicman (with due deference to all the other bass makes not mentioned here such as Rickenbacker, hofner, G and L, Lakland etc etc etc all of which have as much if not more validity dependent on your outlook). The humbucker tends to be more powerful and fatter sounding in most applications.