drTStingray

I've been following this debate/ruck with interest. I have an early 2010 Classic Stingray and it is without doubt a fantastic instrument. It has the same pre as all post 79 2 band Rays with the addition of a couple of features to stop you frying the pre (listens for all the vintage guy's sharp intakes of breath and cries of its not original then - all I can say is whatever floats your boat - and I know what floats mine). Pete I'm also shocked. I had a 79 ray bought new in 79 - it's what turned me against fender basses - to this day!! And the 2010 is everything the 79 was but built better, with more consistency and a rather good after sales service. The biggest sound shifter with these basses is your amp,it's settings and the strings. You can lose the top end shimmer easily just by cutting or boosting your tweeter. To get the Louis Johnson slap sound you need a sabre or two pick up ray and have both pick ups on. I have an HH Ray and love it totally. I get a lot of compliments about the sound of both instruments and one is played sometimes in a classic genre populated by the most anal of anal retro gear and instrument buffs. They often concede that the 2010 Classic (it is fitted with flat wounds and sometimes has the mutes on) sounds live how an old Precision sounds recorded - or possibly compliments the music even better. For me it's one of the best bass sounds known to man. As a self confessed Musicman enthusiast I don't currently have a pre EB. That they are good there is no doubt - I used one for about 10 yrs so I know. The modern basses do everything the old ones did but have the advantage of great build quality and possibly broader sounds plus you get that 'new car' feeling and vibe from them. I'm afraid a brand new car has always done more for me than a tatty vintage one but that's just my personal view!!

Love your classic SR5 - nice trade. PS before you think about selling that SR5 - I took mine out for a gig on Friday night - I honestly forgot how good that bass is - flicking between series parallel and single coil gives a whole range of v usable tone options. Mine also has Marcus miller fat beams which add another dimension!

I emailed EBMM customer services when the debate about US MM Sub pick up wiring surfaced on Basschat and I still have the reply - they're recorded as all parallel - so that is the official view. However the latest twists in the SR5 pick up and EQ story on the EBMM forum have shown there are several variants through the 90s so who knows - maybe the Sub has a similar story - bear in mind there were Sterling Subs - quite rare - and the stock Sterling pick up, like that period SR5 has a series pick up - maybe there were too many Sterling Sub pick ups left over so they put them in the Sub Ray for a while.

You should keep your rays IMHO - if that's the bass sound you hear in your head then nothing else will suffice! The classic 5, if the 4 is anything to go by, will be stunning. My 4 has TI flats - and I still managed to get a decent sound for aeroplane by RHCP in a gig last week - it even surprised me - then back to the thud for some Beatles covers!!

Excellent - theres something magical about the sound of a Stingray - it would be really interesting to see how one of the Stingray versions sits within the whole song mix - call me a heathen but I prefer the ray to the p any day - especially with flat wounds - I suspect the ray would sit rather better than the P bass in an overall mix if you're going to play it in hi fi rather than on a dansette.

Fabulous - bet it sounds killer. I wouldn't repaint it - for one it looks great as it is and secondly I think I remember reading that colour is quite rare as they only introduced it towards the end of the run of subs. But it's your bass, your call! Subs are all supposed to be wired parallel according to EBMM but I always wondered if the 5 string version would use a basic version of the SR5 pick up - which would be wired series - it certainly doesn't seem to make sense to wire special pick ups for the sub when they were a budget instrument made at low cost. All that said Subs are notorious for having had after market mods done to them. Fiesta red looks good if you're going for a refin.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1369420276' post='2089167'] I have had the odd battery that was tighter than a nuns chuff for the EBMM holders too, also it might be worth extracting the whole thing carefully and bend the little tabs back up if they have become stuck in a position where they are not pressing against the battery terminals properly, give them a good clean and look for any loose connections at the same time obviously. [/quote] [quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1369483005' post='2089670'] [size=5][sup]The other thing not mentioned yet and sometimes worth a try - make sure the contacts are bent up to touch the battery on the base - this is a problem some people have had.[/sup] [sup]Duracell is your best bet but I've never stumbled over the battery too big fit issue, but will avoid said makes!![/sup] [sup]Finally, does anyone else find their batteries seem to last almost forever these days? I rarely change mine - reckon they last around 12 months.[/sup][/size] [/quote] [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1369485121' post='2089693'] [/quote] Oops - sorry about that, Pete - I never got past the nun's chuff, if you see what I mean plus the site turned my message into miniscule 6 point stuff lol

[size=5][sup]The other thing not mentioned yet and sometimes worth a try - make sure the contacts are bent up to touch the battery on the base - this is a problem some people have had.[/sup] [sup]Duracell is your best bet but I've never stumbled over the battery too big fit issue, but will avoid said makes!![/sup] [sup]Finally, does anyone else find their batteries seem to last almost forever these days? I rarely change mine - reckon they last around 12 months.[/sup][/size]

I agree with everyone else - it takes a little while to get used to but the rewards are worth it. You learn to play with your ears and the dots on the top of the fretboard are an invaluable guide! You could try one of these - great value used (which is how I got mine - a 93 in mint condition, now strung with EB Grp 3 flats).

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1367953702' post='2071573'] The only issue(s) I have with Ashdown are their appalling visual design[/quote] Aw come on - a little colour co-ordination is a great thing [attachment=134317:very blue.jpg] ...............maybe not if one of the band members has a clinical aversion to the colour blue (as I have recently found out - he admitted it after separately dissing my Ashdown set up and later my blue Stingray)!! I have nothing but praise for Ashdown equipment - they even rebuilt my ABM in front of me after I fried it (coat over the fan) once - for a very reasonable price! The ABM set up sounds great to my ears - I liken it to the sound I had with an Acoustic 370 set up in the 70s, but with the dialable tube giving the possiblity of a varying/good levels of drive, and the sub harmonics giving a good octaver - I think they're awesome. And the Mags aren't that bad at all either - I know someone who uses a PF500 with a Mag 4 x 10 cabinet and it sounds awesome. In fact I know of a particular 4 x 10 Mag that has had 10 yrs of hard gigging and still sounds great. I think you do get people dissing Ashdown (possibly more on Talkbass - or maybe not recognising their existence there). Although I generally use Mark Bass now (for weight/back reasons largely) I've kept my ABM set up and will use it if the occassion suits. I have also had rude comments about MarkBass equipment (eg I see you're endorsed by JCB these days etc etc).

I have major GAS for one of these. Probably a sunburst one with black plate. Interesting that the neck pick up has 16 pole pieces - and the coil selections include bridge H and neck single coil in combination (ie an HS), and a single coil at the neck - making it quite different from the SR4HH (the 2 band EQ also is substantially different). I saw the Merchant City one - they posted pictures on the Musicman bass forum - it's a stunning bass and the neck is unbelievable - however they would need to drop the price somewhat to interest me.............and I'm sold on the trans white/sunburst or diego blue variants anyway.

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1367953601' post='2071570'] I'm old enough to have seen Jet in his prime so no history lesson needed but thanks anyway. [/quote] No history lesson intended - just wasn't sure where you were coming from. BTW I played one of the Japanese re-issue bass V1s of one of these guys - it was quite interesting.

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1367943339' post='2071348'] Did you read the thread that i suggested? It will probably be a lot more help to you than this one is at the present. Oh and for those who don't think it's a bass............ [media]http://youtu.be/CKDuevCr90Q[/media] [/quote] Interesting use of it by the latter incarnation of Soft Machine - sounds fine against the sax solo and sparse keyboards. However, are you suggesting its use by Hank and Jet isn't famous - as someone who plays in a Cliff and the Shads tribute band I hear about this point in the instrument's history on a regular basis - indeed many of the afficianados (generally guitarists) have them

[size=5][sub]Those are absolutely gorgeous - wouldn't mind one.[/sub][/size] [size=5][sub]If Trevor Barry can play a gold sparkle one on Strictly Come Dancing (and sound great as well), these are fine by me![/sub][/size]

Surely it's a baritone guitar - the bass tag on these has always seemed a bit wide of the mark to me. And perhaps the most famous users have been Hank Marvin (playing deep sounding guitar solos), Jet Harris (playing deep sounding melodies) and possibly the one I really associate with this instrument - Wichita Lineman (presumably Glen Campbell playing it?). They're not exactly famous for bass players using them to play bass parts - I would imagine they would be marginally better than someone playing bass parts on a regular guitar, but not sure they would be suitable as a bass per se? But I may be totally wrong! Worth being aware what they're famous for though.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1367867628' post='2070464'] IIRC.... The traditional EQ on a MM was +15db on the bass, boost only, and +-15db on the treble.. If you maxxed out the controls you'd have that awful typical MM sound. [/quote] This is not actually correct - the 2 band Stingray has boost and cut on both the bass and treble controls - problem is if you boost them both you can lose comparative mids - now that sound works excellently in some situations, but probably not the sound saturated environment the OP is referring to, where it's likely mids will be needed to overcome the bassiness of the guitars (or one of them by the sound of it) [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1367867628' post='2070464'] They will have to learn to band EQ themselves for the greater good... and not blanket the mix with a gtr wall of sound. You'll sound better if you layer instruments to the common good,.. inc drums...and it will make things far easier ..AND quicker to set up. [/quote] I agree entirely with you on this - and if the band is not playing with PA assistance with proper monitoring, I have started to ask other band members whether they can hear the rest of the band - one of the bands I play in has a rhytmn guitarist who is very much in the 60s idiom (relentless rhythmn) - and I walked over to his side of the stage one day only to find I couldn't hear anything but him - which expained why he missed half of the drum cues - so when it appears to be getting loud I now ask band members whether they can hear everyone else, and if they say no, the first issue is that they are probably too loud themselves - so must turn down - why is it that many guitarists often start (even in rehearsals) at searing volume - I suspect part of it (although there are no doubt other issues) is hearing loss (in which case they're also likely to hear the bass too loud in relation to their own volume anyway and compensate by turning up). As I said before - the bass is probably quite audible out in the audience but the sound on stage may be compromised - it's awaful if you can't hear yourself properly.

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1367684774' post='2068410'] The other thing to bear in mind is if you going through a PA, make sure the sound man doesn't create too much scoop by boosting treble and bass and cutting mid (as they often do). [/quote] I meant on the fader the bass is through just to be clear.

I'd suggest you put it into series, try the EQ with the mids flat, the bass boosted a tiny bit and the treble boosted a tiny bit. Dependent on what amp you have, I would go with everything on centre detent. The other thing to bear in mind is if you going through a PA, make sure the sound man doesn't create too much scoop by boosting treble and bass and cutting mid (as they often do). The other think to bear in mind is because you have one pick up, plucking position will create significant change in the tone. PLUS, it is very unlikely your bass, even if you have it set too scooped, won't cut through as far as the audience is concerned - on stage it might sound slightly lost if it's too scooped, however.

Pick ups v scratch plate v headstock do it for me - not bothered about the other bits as much. An analogy for me would be a Cortina with a mark 2 shell and doors, mark 1 back and mark 3 front. Sits together rather ungracefully, and looks a bit like an incorrectly completed jigsaw. Of course it might sound fabulous, but who knows? FWIW I don't think the black body with white scratch plate does a lot for it - these tend to accentuate the bits - maybe a black plate with a sunburst body would look better.

[u]I[/u] think it (the bass in the OP) looks like sh*te - a parts bin special! That said, no doubt it sounds quite different, especially with the bridge pick up - I'm not a fan of single coil P bass sound so it certainly is unlikely to appeal.. However, similar thing in fiesta red with Thunderbird pick ups might be interesting. I think Pino has one - maybe Fender will change the spec if/when the sales don't match up to expectation. I can't help wondering whether this model has come about as a result of customer feedback or Fender think they know already what people want - if the latter, it's just possible they have the Minstry for Daft Ideas working for them. BTW I didn't read all of the posts but there seemed some seriously strange activity in this thread

Hmmm this is all sounding very technical and possibly reasonably expensive. A simpler route would be to get a used SBMM Ray 34 or even a new Sub SBMM Stingray - you'll get the sound you're talking about straight out of the box cutting the bass a bit on your amp plus you'd have a bass that you can use in a whole lot of other situations as well

[quote name='D.I. Joe' timestamp='1367352468' post='2064650'] Like those people that think a Precision is only good for vintage 60s sounds and root-and-fifth-thumping Country and Western for example? [/quote] They were intended to be examples of stereotypes, not an exhaustive list I missed out Beach Boys tribute bands amongst a host of others, for instance (although I did notice that the guy in the real Beach Boys played a Lakland when I saw them!)

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1367311339' post='2063913'] That sounds like a Fender bass strength and not a weakness. So, which luthiers are making instruments that are difficult to play? [/quote] The point here is that some instruments are better suited to players striving to play more complex music which demands a more technical approach, and thus demand more response/playability from their instruments. People may scoff and say that's not proper music and the bass player's job is to sit in the background and perform a specific function - that view is rather narrow minded - could be described as PJ (pre Jaco!!). Some people are not looking for a vintage 60s sound (whatever that may be), and some people are not content to thump away at root and fifth country and western. I'm afraid that threads like this do display a narrow minded approach to music - there are quite a lot of areas where a P bass would not give the best result - there are some where it will.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1367266118' post='2063508']I used to ( and still occasionally do ) play a smattering of Free covers ( still very popular with middle aged women , for some reason ) and yes , a Precision Bass isn't quite right for it . A Wal works a treat , however , I can also confirm that you [u]cannot and must not [/u]play Rush songs on a Music Man . It is just very , very wrong to even attempt it . [/quote] I can imagine a Wal being perfect for Free numbers. I would confess to not being a Geddy fan - I always though his bass sound was more reminiscent of a Ric (a bit less in your face than Chris Squire with Yes, but in the same ball park) but I hear what you say. Now if you're going to play Journey stuff the Musicman fits perfectly. However I have one of those new-ish fangled Stingrays with 2 H pick ups - it sounds awfully like a Jazz on one setting - in fact the whole bass sounds slightly unlike a Musicman at times (it's very very light in weight and has a rosewood board) - so maybe I could get away with Geddy if I was hidden behind a screen not really - I can't play anything like him!! You are right, there is some original music which really needs certain instrumentation to sound right, be it Precision, Jazz, Rickenbacker, Warwick, Stingray, Bongo, Yamaha, Ibanez, Aria or Wal (or EB3)! Now the Smokie stuff.......................presumably any bass will do it so long as it has a generic tone.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1367265274' post='2063487'] Well, Smokie is a given obviously - who could possibly dislike them [size=4], but Stanley..?[/size] [/quote] They have both caused me nightmares and trauma - Smokie from playing their material in working mens clubs rather too much, and Stanley for dropping his upright at Birmingham Town Hall, and the neck breaking off - and then announcing to the audience that it's OK cos he has another back home about 1976!! I thought everyone knows a bit of Schooldays, for those guitar shop moments (and tuning up setting sound of course!!!)