drTStingray

Well yes you could - but some basses have very dynamic output/sound reproduction and would make things like poor muting, fret noise more obvious. I don't know if you were attending gigs in the early 70s, but it was common for the basss to either have a dreadful sound, be inaudible or generally sound nothing like the recorded versions of the songs being played - I suspect this was the reason people tinkered with and subsequently produced better amplification, speakers and basses from the early 70s onwards.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1367263874' post='2063443'] [size=4]Are you suggesting that for some reason Fender basses [i]can't be heard..?[/i] [/size] [/quote] I think it's possible to play one badly, with poor technique and get away with it (certainly as far as a non tehnical audience is concerned) whereas some basses would sound dreadful (and expose poor playing technique more obvioulsy). [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1367263874' post='2063443'] [size=4]Would anyone in their right minds think of playing Return To Forever material? [/size] [/quote] I thought everyone played a bit of Stanley from time to time and Smokie?

[quote name='jezzaboy' timestamp='1367239928' post='2062966'] In my last band we had to sack the drummer. He turned up with a Premier drum kit. He should have know that the best drum kit for Metal is a Pearl Export. Plonker. [/quote] That is hilarious Now if the OP question was being asked in about 1974 the answer would definitely be yes..............oh wait, no it wouldn't - if you're playing covers of the band Free (or actually in Free) they don't work too well - I've heard people try - doesn't sound right! But it is 2013 and the Fender Precision is a product of 1957 - there's lots of types and genres of music where the P bass would be just about OK (or maybe worse) but other basses would be far better. For instance, would anyone in their right minds think of using a Precision bass to play Return to Forever material? I would describe a P bass as an instrument that can do most musical things to do with bass just about OK, some things fairly well and some things very well indeed. To say it can do everything, musically, suggests an ignorance of some types of music (often where the playing is more demanding). Anyone fancy doing some Billy Shehan or Mark King on their 62 AVRI? There is another angle - Fender Precisions (and Jazzes) are beloved of guitar players who don't want their position in the limelight challenged - and are basses where some guitarists can swap over and play a bit and not have lame bass technique exposed! All that said, they have an enviable pedigree and I lusted after them until the end of the 70s - I may even yet buy one! I have always been firmly of the belief that a Precision bass can walk on water - I believe it will certainly float (didn't the Who try this one?)

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1367090397' post='2061255'] The Fender Bass VI was introduced about 1961 but the Danelectro 6-string Bass - with which the Fender was intended to compete - had been around since the mid-fifties. I'm guessing neither become the norm for bass parts because they didn't thump like a Precision (or some other 4-stringers). When it did get used it tended to be either for tic-tac bass or for more twangy guitar-styled work in, for example, surf bands or Glen Campbell's solo on Wichita Lineman. [/quote] I think you're right - it really isn't a bass, in the traditional sense, at all. In the same way Stanley Clark's piccolo basses aren't (and they're 4 strings). The 4 string bass guitar was clearly intended to be an update for the upright 4 string (although 5 string versions of them are around!) - and much as with upright, the instrument took a supporting role in much music in which it was used - although there were exceptions where double bass players in jazz bands took a more prominent role. For electric bass, it wasn't until the mid 60s that this happened (Jamerson/soul music), and probably not until the 70s that virtuoso bass guitarists appeared. 5 string really started in the late 70s/early 80s, often to get the low notes on disco/R and B/dance music of the time - bass parts which were far removed from the thump along role of the bass in pop music in the late 50s to the mid 60s.

Still with a (rather tatty looking) bell housing as well! But not the bridge one. I would have thought he'd need them both off for his style so am surprised to see it's still there. I have often wondered why these basses came about and whether Fender did them in order to get Entwhistle to use a Fender - in which case is it really the forerunner of a signature model?

[quote name='badboy1984' timestamp='1367055428' post='2060682'] my jazz bass is active, i have J-Retro install so it gives me that flexibility then a traditional jazz bass with 2 vol and 1 tone. [/quote] You could try a drive pedal then - if you think Tim Commerford, he gets a great sound with a Jazz (mind you it's slightly different from that early sound with the Stingray) - but it might get you closer to what you're seeking.

[quote name='Delberthot' timestamp='1366959643' post='2059358']In fact if you can still find it, there's an earlyYoutube video of Flea using a Black Precision bass live and still getting his sound[/quote] I've watched/heard that video and couldn't disagree more - in fact I've never heard Flea get a Flea sound on any Fender instrument - they sound far too 'polite'. You might recall he went through a period of playing live with an early pink Jazz - and went back to a Modulus not long after - it simply didn't do the job. The Flea sound is rooted in a Classic Stingray sound with the strings struck hard enough to get some fret clank and with that shimmering treble sound - the Modulus has a slightly pumped up version of the treble. Now I can get something like this sound from my 2010 CLassic Ray fitted with Thomastik flats and the mutes engaged - it is a facet of the bass, which you can remove by playing technique/EQ but is there if you want it. Back to the OP's question. I have heard a demo of the Digitech overdrive pedal (the dark red one), where with a small amount of drive dialled in, that shimmering treble appears - combine that with hitting the strings hard (to get clank), and new roundwounds (GHS boomers might work - certainly Rotos when they are new) and you may get closer to it with your Jazz. However, you may find it difficult to get it to clank unless you wind up the tone control, in which case other elements of the sound may disappear - i.e you might go more towards Roger Waters/Chris Squire than Flea). Flea's sound is essentially Stingray/Modulus with aggressive playing technique (most of the time) - that means active bass of the type mentioned. I know he used several other makes for recording, but essentially the Stingray/Modulus covers most until quite recently. JJ Burnel's sound always seemed to me to be rooted in the clangy P bass sound (ie tone control fully on) boosted perhaps with a little drive - and that sound characteristic being the only real element of bass sound, amplified loudly.

I have DR Marcus Miller fatbeam 125 to 45 on my SR5 - they're about 2 yrs old - they still sound bright. I find the Cobalt strings work really well on Musicman basses, as do the Slinkies (but bear in mind EBMM ship their basses with a 100 on the E) - the Cobalts give quite a boost in the upper mid range. I've not found Ernie Ball strings to lose their brightness on Musicman basses - Rotosounds are totally different - they sound fantastic for a couple of weeks then start to lose their zing - but the intial sound is great. Musicman serial numbers do not always run in order, and particularly for limited edition basses. Your best route on this is to post the serial number details in the sticky thread at the top of the Musicman bass forum and someone from Musicman customer services will reply with the date of completion, original specs and where it was shipped to. They usually reply within one working day.

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1366387677' post='2052000'] I hope not, BC is still a free place for bass players (as long as we don't use the "R" word...) [/quote] My reading is that we're free to say anything as long as we don't defame any individuals or products. It appears to be illegal - sounds fair to me. Although this isn't based on any survey of bass forums, it does appear to me that companies whose CEOs regularly post on line attract the 'XYZ is a burke' posts - whereas companies who appear to be faceless beaurocratic corporations do not, despite making product decisions which run counter to the desires of customers. A pity the power of the internet can't be used to make these faceless edifices more accountable. Calling CEOs names is a bit lame surely? To my knowledge, only a handful of threads (i.e could be counted on one hand) have been closed on the Musicman forum in the last couple of years. These have been either caused by discussions about other company's products or certain individual warranty issues (which should have been directed to customer services and thus were) - note they were closed not deleted. And back on topic - such a shame that is a gorgeous trans red Ray - the bodies on these used to be alder - do you know if that is? I've never taken the neck off a bass in 40 odd years of playing, and I'm even more put off having seen this. I've also heard horror stories of people putting them back on ever so slightly misaligned etc etc.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1366396494' post='2052134'] Five and six basses have been around longer than you think... Fender first made the Bass VI (tuned like a guitar but an octave lower) in 1961 and the Bass V (normally tuned E-C) in 1965. [/quote] Good point but do these oddities really count - the bass V1 was a baritone guitar used by guitarists wanting that Duane Eddy sound (eg Hank Marvin on occassional Shadows songs) or bass players wanting to play guitar (Jet Harris on Diamonds, for instance) - I always think of the archetypal sound of these things as the solo in Wichita Lineman - not a bass at all!! The bass V is an even more bizarre contraption - 30 inch scale with a much longer body than a Precision - looks chronicly unbalanced - tuned E to C. This instrument was very unsuccessful (presumably a CBS idea..............) Not deliberately intending to insult fans of these things (and I know one or two - they are all guitarists from my recollection!) but they are surely only a footnote and curiosities in the history of the bass guitar. I'm sure if they hadn't got the Fender name on them they'd be even more obscure.

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1366394186' post='2052088'] Maybe a silly question, but why have more than 4 strings on a Bass? Are they better? Have they always been around, or is it a fairly recent occurence? [/quote] Surprisingly, over the last 40 years or so, much music which requires a bass guitar has been written which needs a range beyond the standard tuning of a four string bass. Particularly, the ability to play the low notes (in fact 5 strings largely came about because of bass parts written on or for keyboards back in the late 70s early 80s onwards). I guess having 6 strings allows high notes to be played across the fretboard rather than further up it. I've never been into 6 strings particularly but a 5 string is invaluable if you're going to play music like Stevie Wonder or some hip hop/R and B.

I don't know too much about these - if you want a horror story, I bought my 79/80 sunburst Stingray brand new and carried it home on the bus without a case or gig bag - it simply didn't get sold with a case - this was common at the time - people had one instrument and if you upgraded your bass, you'd use your previous hard case - if it fitted - or better still a flight case. At the time it was a toss up between a used natural in a very sturdy flight case (but the bass had appalling belt buckle rash - any bass player worth his salt in the late 70s would have had a huge belt, probably studded plus a Levi jacket with standard buttons, to scrape away the back of the instrument). I really don't know where these nice mildly worn Fenders and Musicman basses come from - I was very careful with mine (it had taken me 7 yrs to get a quality bass) but it was wearing through the finish on the forearm 'rest' area (where a contour would be) and around the strap buttons after 5 yrs gigging it. The teardrop cases appear to be worth a lot - and were used with EBMM basses as well as pre EB (I bid on an 87 bass with one - it eventually went for about £300 more than a normal mint 87 in a sought after colour would go for). The rectangular cases are also quite common. As has been said, the interior of the cases can be in a variety of colours - however the only tear drop cases I've seen have had orange fabric in them - and some rectangular ones have. It might be worth emailing Gav on the musicmanbass.org site and seeing what he can advise you on the subject. I have also noticed that some of the dealers who sell pre EB Musicman basses rarely if ever sell them with OE hard cases. Not sure why that is - perhaps one of them could tell us??

If you have an active bass with a 3 band (or 4 band is even better) EQ, you can counter the issue by boosting the mids and holding back the bass a little. Works well on a Stingray HH.

During the debate on Talkbass about what is actually different about the latest American Vintage basses compared with the previous AVRIs to justify the significant price change - surely not just a re-run of sonic blue and semolina red paint etc etc - so I asked exactly this question - are the new ones nitro and the old ones not...........I was told the AVRIs (except for the 75 Jazz bass) have been nitro since the 80s. So I'm now confused!! There is also a new Classic MIM series, and I think they have nitro finishes as well. I have heard it said that these re-issue nitro finished basses sustain significant finish damage with the slightest ding........now I'm a very careful person with guitars (put them in a case when there's the slightest hint of a drummer unscrewing or moving metalwork) but all my basses have sustained the odd ding or two - it seems impossible to avoid if you're performing with them - I'm just wondering whether I'd actually have any finish to gradually age with these basses!!!

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1364935572' post='2033063'] I think if Jaco were still around, he'd play a modern high end bass, perhaps a Fodera. Last night I discovered you can get a Musicman Bongo HH to sound very Jazz-bass like, and almost dead on P bass like with technique and using a little EQ. All that, plus its own Musicman/Stingray tone, with far higher quality electronics and build. Plus, a neck sent from heaven haha. [/quote] Ah ha indeed - the mind control ray of the Bongo has reached the north-east then. I have to say one of the first things I noticed about the Bongo was how it could cop the general sound of a P bass. But I really like the look of that Status - it even has two strap buttons - one for the Mark King bass wear height and one for the more..............well Flea's the only name that springs to mind right now, worn down low!! And was that my imagination or has someone's avatar picture changed to a small auburn haired Scottish lady and her spouse...........spooky indeed!!

Lovely bass - congratulations. I tend to share your sentiment about the venerable old Precision bass - they're certainly adequate for some types of bass work, and in very skilled (or genius in the case of Pino) hands they're excellent..........for some genres - I do not count myself as one of these gifted people and I've never been minded to accept adequate (as a musical instrument) as being the pinnacle of desirability. I know I sound better on other instruments.........now I like the look of that Status! I often wonder if Jamerson was still alive whether he would even play the bass they refer to as a P these days (lol..............and they go on about toilet connotations with the Bongo!) - some of my heroes like Rainey, Laboriel, Watts and Johnson are not massively conspicious by their use of P basses these days. Do people use them for 2 handed tapping?? Or even slapping (as a bass of choice). I think not.

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1364906109' post='2032387'] ......................By the way, I never said anything about making a loss. That would be daft. [/quote] Well I don't think messrs Fender are making a lot of money currently - in fact I read a financial article recently which suggested their biggest problem is people not wanting to buy new ones because of the perception that old ones are better, and did not bode well at all. But it's true that musical instruments are classed as non essential luxury items and companies have been having a hard time of it for several years now - no doubt there is pressure from increasing manufacturing costs (not labour though!!) and exchange rate against imports - and for those with shareholders and the market to impress, no doubt a desire to improve margins. This has happened in the past as a result of Government wanting to limit imports to improve import/export ratio and improve financial performance. We seem to be entering another period of weaker currency, so the prices will go up - best thing is to wait for Fender or other manufacturers to announce another new vintage re-issue line and then pick up one of the bargains sold off at half price of the old line at a major retailer who's clearing floor space for the new models (if like me, you like shiny new basses and bass cases (a bit like new cars - it's a lovely feeling when you get one - nothing like the smell, fell and look of it).

Don't think he played a Stingray 5 - he plays Alleva Coppolo 5s generally (but often gets a Stingray-like tone). I once saw him use a pre EB Stingray on a Stevie Wonder thing on the BBC about 20 yrs ago. You may be right about signature instruments - there again they might put others off.

[sub][size=4]Probably exchange rate stuff - last time I looked (regarding a used purchase) I was horrified. $1.49 = £1. When you consider it was 1.6 or 1.65 not long ago, it's not surprising prices are rising - manufacturers are also putting prices up.[/size][/sub]

[sub][size=4]Oh yes + 1,000,000[/size] [/sub] [sub][size=4]I learned as many of the tracks off Songs in the Key of Life that I could back in the late 70s (only learned Sir Duke recently though - couldn't figure out the unison riff back then).[/size][/sub] [sub][size=4]Nate has a 79 Stingray (it appears on Do I Do amongst a lot of other tracks, and he says he still uses it, presumably for recording) - this guy is one of my biggest bass playing inspirations, and one of the key reasons I got the Stingray drug!! Also the reason I bought a 5 string bass (but had to be a Stingray!). Seeing a Stevie Wonder performance with Nate on bass is a must for any R and B influenced bass player - there's no groove quite like it![/size][/sub] [sub][size=4]In an interview he said he got the Stingray on recommendation of Bernard Edwards - prior to that he used a Jazz on I Wish (but through an Alembic pre amp - hence those dirty slides) and a Precision on Sir Duke (also through an Alembic pre amp).[/size][/sub] [sub][size=4]Great call, Pete.[/size][/sub]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1364298600' post='2024454'] This is what they said about lotus Cortinas a few years ago when they hit £15000, now they are £40k at least! [/quote] We're miles off topic, but as a man with a strong interest in Mini Cooper Ss (the old type) - this is because there is a generation of people (generally middle aged or elderly now) who dearly want to take them historic rallying - they are rare, and desirable particularly for that purpose - and follow 'the Dingus rule' mentioned earlier. Generations come and go - I would not be surprised to see the price of run of the mill vintage Fenders (as opposed to minters) fall.....or rise dependent on the number around, and their desirability for use as a working instrument - those fortunes may be linked to the type/amount of music for which they're suitable, currently on a high (BUT remember the 80s anyone? Keyboards rule OK!). Who knows with pre EB v EB instruments - I think they're all great but I'm biased - most bass players hold them in some reverence.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1364245362' post='2023849'] That 30TH Anniversary 'Ray was a very remarkable sounding ( and good looking ) bass , I must admit . I wanted one at the time , but I was put off by the weight . Mahogany seems to really help give some extra focus to the typical Stingray tone on EBMM basses , and I would include the models with mahogany tone blocks in that as well as the solid mahogany ones . [/quote] I like the look of the 30th Anniversary more now than when they were available. I also once tried a Reflex - I was extremely impressed. Now that would be a nice used instrument to buy.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1364244745' post='2023828'] Seen a few 30th rays sell cheap on here alone dr t! I think whatever the newer ones cost the older ones will be double of a standard one and a few hundred more than any LE version, look how cheap some classics are becoming compared to the rrp. [/quote] Yes I can see your point - I think where I'm coming from is that the idea that something old is good and desirable changes with generations - you only have to track/watch antique auctions to see this - beautiful artefacts which were worth a fortune twenty years ago are now only worth scrap value in some cases - painful but true in some cases. I'd love to have a crystal ball but methinks the baby boomer generation is most heavily responsible for the 50s/60s music scene and for its perpetuity - the next generation (mine) may not be so kind to its heritage and artefacts.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1364239868' post='2023726'] I don't think any ebmm will rival any pre eb for holding its value, they are also awesome! [/quote] I know they are good and have a following, but no one has a crystal ball to see what things will be like in 30 yrs time. Bear in mind quite a few buyers/owners of 50s/60s Fenders are guys who are in their 60s/70s - they may flood the market when the inevitable happens - with a reduction in price accordingly (unless, as Dingus says, they're something unusual and special). You only have to look at the situation with classic cars to see the parallel. The current situation is Musicman basses are treated with quite a reverence by bass players - they have a good following and apart from some detractors who clearly don't like them, will probably continue to be - which augers well for the saleability of used ones I guess. The market will go up and down though. [quote name='Delberthot' timestamp='1364237999' post='2023692'] If you want a corker of a Stingray then get yourself a 30th Anniversary with the mahogany body. If you want the rarest and arguably best fretless there is IMO then get one of the 20ish made unlined fretless versions. Still my dream bass. I had a 30th but always really wanted a fretless one. Beautiful and sounds amazing as well [/quote] I remember nearly buying one of these used from Bass Central - I didn't (and also passed on a NOS fretless 2005 LE Ray they had) because I wanted a standard Ray - eventually a mint 93 came up on Ebay, which I still have. I don't regret this but would like to snag a fretted 30th at some point. Expensive though! The LEs, Anniversary models and BFRs do command higher prices - rare ones even more so. Bass Central had a stealth HH Ray unlined fretless quite recently - most probably a one off - now that was the height of cool for my eyes - ebony board as well!

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1364173843' post='2022874'] IIRC there are three types of BFR bass - a BFR Sterling 4 string, in various 'BFR' colours with figured top, no pickguard, special fret markers; 10 off SR5 in bahama blueburst which preceeded the 20th Anniversary model (5 in US; 5 to international dealers) and finally a series of regular model EBMM basses with all rosewood necks - the neck has the BFR logo on it, but otherwise it's a regular bass.[/quote] Sorry I missed out the BFR Redwood Stingray - no pickguard - flame or quilted top - 100 made (IIRC). I agree with you Dingus, the whole musical instrument market is depressed currently - ask any retailer. But decent used equipment that is sought after, and possibly in very good condition, will fetch good prices - recent sale of a mint late 80s trans red Stingray at £900 (compared with the 'well used' late 80s blueburst at £560 - as reported in another thread).