drTStingray

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1353092836' post='1871653'] If they already have a X model then this ones not as important IMO plus there does not appear to be much of a nostalgic link between MM and EBMM, for me they bought a humbucker, oval plate and the 3 and 1 tuners/headstock shape. Although the design was good in the first place in reality they are quite different basses, the necks are totally different in profile and gloss finished, the pickup windings are different, the EQ's were different for the most part until the settled on 2 band,the slab body, the string through bridge, the 3 or 4 bolt necks, the standard truss rod setup, so its that oval guard and overall look that make them the same, if you remove that then they are quite different to the EBMM versions IMO [/quote] I think you may be overstating the point slightly with these Pete. The fact is that the early EBMM basses (4 bolt neck attachment) in 2 band form is pretty similar to a pre EB Stingray - they introduced the contouring from the Sabre, rather than the slab body but that improves playability. I could go and order a Classic Stingray 4 tomorrow with a natural body and a flamed maple neck that would sound virtually the same as that bass - the only significant difference would be the neck attachment and truss rod adjuster (which are updated to a more robust design) - oh and they hadn't quite got the pick up pole lengths fixed for the first year or so and they were 3 or 4 iterations away from the EQ they settled on - but they will basically have the same characteristics. I have owned all sorts of these (and currently have 5 EBMMs and no pre EBs) - the classic Stingray is as close to a re-issue pre EB you're ever likely to get - 79 spec pre amp and pick up and all. But that bass is a thing of beauty!! Major GAS.

I'm pretty sure Sterling Ball will know about this latest sale also - there's a thread posted by Gav (the Aussie expert, Musicman org website owner and Musicman bass forum moderator) on the Musicman bass forum. The old adage that you basically convert the value in dollars to £ Sterling for the same item for sale in this country seems to apply here - plus a bit of profit/reimbursement of shipping costs for the owner, and a bit for the shop fee makes it about right as far as I can see. I really think it ought to be in a museum on display or on display at Musicman - has anyone been to look at it from here? It would be an experience just to look at it let alone play it - not sure I can get up there in the next week (if it's still there) - it looks fantastic - as new - in the photos. The point made about pick up cover colours and control knobs - this is the first production Stingray - the ones with X series numbers are pre-production prototypes and all the ones I've seen have been natural finish, have white pu covers, black pick guards, and normal knurled control knobs. The 'radio' knobs appear to occur on very early Rays but knurled ones appear as well. The white pick up cover was an option on new instruments up to about 1979 (indeed I looked at a 77 Inca Silver Ray at Bass Centre a few years back which had a white pu cover). I know it's possibly a heinous crime uttering anything in this place about those six string things our guitar toting colleagues usually play far too loudly................ but Stingray guitar #0001 was also for sale not too long ago (also previously owned by Forrest White IIRC).

Love this colour combo in a Precision (and Jazz). In the early 70s, if you had any wish to play R and B, this was the bass and colour combo to have (with an Acoustic 370 stack). I'd still like one now! I saw the TOTP performance by Bad Company of Can't Get Enough of Your Love the other day and Boz Burrell was playing a natural Precision fretless with a maple board! Pastel colours on Fender basses were not on the radar at that time for young upcoming players - associated with deeply out of date and uncool genres! How times change!!

Welcome to the SR5 fold! I've had mine for ten years and despite having a number of other basses, still use this as my go to 5 string. It's very versatile and with some tricks of muting and playing style can cover sounds/genres like classic R and B perfectly well, along with most others. My bass has ceramic poles, and is subtly different from an alnico Stingray - it does have an underlying growl which can be increased or decreased with playing style and EQ. SR5s have been used a lot in recording since the 90s, and also in musical theatre live, an example is a Stax based soul show I saw a few years back - the bass player used an SR5 and it sounded perfect. He got a little solo and the sound moved more towards Alembic Stanley Clarke vibe - there is no doubt that the SR5 is highly versatile but as with everything else, unlocking that versatility is in the hands of the player to an extent also. Some of my favourite playing on Stingrays is the Nick Fyffe era Jamiroquy recordings (he used Yamahas live later).

A Sterling by Musicman Sub 5 is a good bass at a low price - plus you could try one out in a shop and see if you like it before buying. If you want to spend a little more an SBMM Ray 35 gets closer to an EBMM SR5. Or you could try some SR5s in shops. Pete, I've never actually seen a Tony Levin OLP they must be quite rare?

[sub]Yes, very nice. I picked up bits of what they were saying..............ash body, skunk stripe etc etc.[/sub] [sub]I was surprised how similar they sounded - although the range of tones on the Jazzes compared with the Precision was interesting - and the diffierence between the two Jazzes on bridge only - the 70s one sounded much brighter.[/sub]

I have two basses with oil and wax finish necks - like Musicman 20 I've never really had to adjust the necks - one is a Stingray 5 I've had for nearly 10 yrs. Recently it sat in its case for about 6 months in a range of temperatures and I decided to use it for a gig - not only did the neck not need adjusting, it was still in tune!!! Musicman would not sell them if they were unreliable as they would lose money on warranty repairs - it would be a simple task to change the arrangement but I'm guessing it's one of the selling points for a lot of people as it improves playability, which is why they don't! I have a fretless Stingray on which I keep the action very low. It requires a slight tweak at the beginning and end of the winter - oh and it has a laquered neck! It also looks quarter sawn. I personally would have no problem recommending Musicman style necks to other bassists or buying more myself - they are silky smooth to play and very fast - I think the modern Fenders I've played have a similar, if not the same arrangement? The difference with the Musicman bass is the truss rod is a doddle to tweak in comparison. I doubt your basses have any problem caused by loss of neck finish.

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1352112334' post='1858734'] There is that custom design/paint job Mustang that was done for a TV show in the Fender Bass Book. It could be that someone wanted a multi-coloured burst, and paid for a custom job. I guess to do a multi-burst, you'd simply spray each colour over the whole body?! Si [/quote] It was The Partridge Family - but that was one of THE biggest shows on tele both in US and UK in the early/mid 70s, and would have had the budget/influence/product placement potential to get it done - funnily the bass only had Fender on it (presumably so not to advertise the Ford car of the era for nothing!). The design was a bit more cohesive than this 65 one though. I think you're right in your assessment of the bass.

Not sure. However I have found that Ernie Ball Group 3s have roughly the same tension as rounds and have them on an SR4 fretless - and I did once string my SR5 with flats of a make that I won't mention (not in your list) and they had such tension that the bass became a chore to play (I didn't actually adjust truss rod or anything - just swapped the strings out for rounds again after a couple of weeks).

That's an interesting old curiosity! All sounds a bit strange really - surely they'd show off custom colours on guitars, where they'd be more likely to sell them than on a bass - least of all a P bass at that time. I'm presuming that they did fewer P bass in custom colours than Jazz basses - they rarely matched the headstock as opposed to strats and jazzes. I suppose it's possible they could have done this for a show like NAMM - but it doesn't even show the colours that well!! Some interesting looking basses surround it [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1352070230' post='1858493'] I can imagine a scenario where at the time Fender were pretty much King Of The Hill with basses, the sales guys want to go out showing off options & what they want they get[/quote] I'm not sure Fender were actually in that position at that time - as many pop bassists of the time were associated both in this country and the US with a range of other makes - the most famous of all at that time (of the Beatles) was always associated with other makes. The Shadows went from Precision to Burns basses after two or three years. It should be remembered that Fenders weren't even imported to UK before the beginning of the 60s owing to trade restrictions.

A bit more info:- [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]Sabre specs:[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]-11" Radius[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]-Compensated Nut[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]-21 High Profile, Wide Frets (like the regular Stingray)[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]-2 Alnico Humbuckers[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]-Silent Circuit[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]Switch Configuration (all combinations are in parallel):[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]1-Coils 1 & 2[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]2-Coils 1, 2 & 3[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]3-Coils 1, 2, 3 & 4[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]4-Coil 3[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]5-Coils 3 & 4[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]Thus different from both the SR4HH and the original lever switch Sabre. In particular as well as either of the Hs or both Hs together, it gives an HS ability or a S in roughly the P bass position. Sounds v interesting.[/size][/font][/color]

I'm betting you've oredered one

[attachment=122520:pdn.jpg] Sledge package available through the Premier Dealer Network! Build codes here: SR4 Maple Board 120-SL-13-01 SR4 Rosewood Board 120-SL-15-01 SR5 Maple Board 215-SL-13-01 SR5 Rosewood Board 215-SL-15-01 Sabre Maple Board 101-SL-13-01 Sabre Rosewood Board 101-SL-15-01 These appear to be limited, for order in November only so if you want one, I'm guessing you'll have to order from one of the UK PDNs, which include Strings and Things (last time I looked!). If the PDN get this, what version do GC get eventually..............maybe a natural??

There's more info on Grand Central Music's site. Colour spec looks very interesting - basically colour shifts to any one of five or six it appears! The selector switch appears to select different coil combinations from an HH Stingray (does an HS config?). Not sure whether they come with a stick on moustache for November lol!!

Awaiting the onset of serious GAS with interest. The Sabre in the picture looks to have concealed pick up poles. And the Stingray neck looks figured but with either a lighter coloured lacquer or no lacquer. Colour looks great - interesting colour shift - like a version of mystic dream, only available on one guitar model?

First two right. (If you had a piezo, the 2nd knob has an upper which is piezo/magnetic blend Third knob is upper and lower mid. 4th knob is bass (lower) treble (top). Beware of that bass EQ - it can demolish walls. For anyone interested, the H Bongo has a 3 band EQ - I'm guessing it has 4 regular controls as per a 3 band Ray etc.

Part of the set up process I think - not on all of them though. Look out for the Sabre - I wasn't joking - already available to pre order on Ebay!!

[quote name='Les' timestamp='1351617220' post='1853333'] Thanks DocT but there's nothing EBMM going on my pre EB, I have everything but the foam anyway, spring plates, screws etc. Searching now for the right mousemat to lay down it's life for the cause. [/quote] Double thickness might do it. The thing is, a lot of the parts are the same as the pre EB. If it was me I'd buy the kit and just use the spring mounts/pads and keep the original ones in case you want to sell the bass - personal preference but I think they look better than the home made ones I've seen. The later thumb screws have a different diameter from the pre EB.

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' timestamp='1351714117' post='1854603'] ... it appears that the way things are EBMM neck pockets have a tendency to be inconsistent along the same range, often too tight or too wide, hence the reason all their basses have shims in the neck pocket. [/quote] The OP was talking about fitting a Stingray neck to an OLP body - not sure what EBMM neck pocket consistency has to do with it. What data do you base the allegation of variable neck pocket width on? From my experience their quality is up there with the highest. I would doubt ALL of their basses have neck shims. I don't think any of mine have! The remainder of the post is possibly more accurate! All will be revealed when the Tony Levin re-issue Sabre is released later this week

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1351543923' post='1852483'] I think you could probably use a bench grinder to create the little recess in the back of the bridge failing that the spring plate is really only about .5mm anyway so it might just squash down, I did not realise the OLP had the big flat area like the ebay ones so its crying out for the mute kit! I will send you a link when its up Jose for the Mag cover, I'm not really sure exactly what is going on there myself 28'000 copies though [/quote] The spring plates are far less than 5 mm thick - I'd say 1 mm or less. The only recess on the Classic bridge appears to be at the front edge - if you look carefully you can see the four plates fit into the recess, which is about 1 or 2 mm deep. I've just checked my 93 fretless and it has the same system. I suspect the plates are just wedged between the bridge and body, and into the front edge slot to keep them in place laterally. I'd go for it - if it doesn't fit I'm sure you'll be able to sell the mute assembly without a problem. [quote name='Les' timestamp='1351545378' post='1852516'] what's the foam bit like ? quite dense ? My 79 has all the mechanics but someone took the foam off, might try it, I assume the foam is just glued on ? [/quote] The foam bit is similar to the innards of a mousemat, but without the smooth covering. It's a bit thicker as well. They are glued on. The pre EBs seem to be notorious for losing them - I had one from new and the G string mute disappeared during a gig on a dark stage after I'd had the bass for about a month - if you look at pictures of Pino's fretless Ray whilst with Paul Young, IIRC at least one of the mutes is missing off his. Presumably glue technology wasn't what it is now, back then!! The modern ones appear to stay put. If I had a pre EB with missing mutes, and I wanted it to be fully functional, I would certainly consider buying the mute kit which McNach is referring to, which is an EBMM part.

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1351534780' post='1852321'] This is the OLP in question, I think that bridge should be ok, shouldn't it? so much blank space is calling for something to be installed there! [/quote] This is what they look like fitted, in detail - not sure if they'll fit between the back of your pickguard and the bridge. Note these are on EB 4 string basses up to the mid 90s and well as the Classics from 2010, as well as the pre EBs. [attachment=122300:12082010700.jpg][attachment=122301:15082010704.jpg][attachment=122302:15082010705.jpg]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1351362643' post='1850592'] I would very respectfully disagree. There isn't anything very special about the body or the bridge etc. [/quote] I was quoting Sterling Ball on this - he has commented on the contribution the bridge design makes - those bolts go some way into the body. Try the acoustic sound in the way I said - you'll be quite surprised. The other thing notable is the 'snap' of the strings when popping and slapping acoustically - it is stronger than say a P bass - thus contributing to that awesome slap/pop tone. [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1351362643' post='1850592'] In fact, take that big MM humbucker and move it an inch towards the bridge, and you lose the Stingray. Move it an inch towards the neck, and you get a lovely meaty bassy mighty thump from it, but it does not sound like a Stingray. You will not hear a difference "acoustically". I'd say a Stingray is by far mostly defined by that prticular pickup at that particular location. The preamp contributes to the variety of tonalities you can get, but as you say, even a passive 'Ray sounds like a 'Ray. [/quote] You are right regarding the pick up position - anyone who has used an HH or HS Stingray will be aware that the different coils make significantly different sounds simply from their position relative to the string length. My real point was the Ray sound is the sum of a number of fundamental parts.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1351339508' post='1850270'] Funky looking bass but we need to see the logo to be more accurate, the bridge serials are very hit and miss IMO, the rear logo makes it at least '87 and the four bolt no later than '91 but a close up of the logo should date it even closer as the little mens jumpers can even give the game away! Thermos flask and adanoids at the ready [/quote] The Musicman database is pretty accurate - in fact totallly so!! You are right though - the trans logo (Ernie Ball applied over the Musicman name) as on my Classic (attached) was only used for a couple or three years - resurrected for the Classic series in 2010.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1351338857' post='1850257'] Even Passive modded Rays sound quite Ray like to my ears even cheap copies have that sound in some way probably the pickup position more than anything?[/quote] The body construction has a lot to do with it (bridge etc) - if you press your ear against the upper horn of a Ray or SBMM etc, the acoustic sound gives that overall characteristic sound - passive Sub Rays also sound similar. No doubt the pick up and circuit contributes but the underlying sound is the instrument itself. [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1351338857' post='1850257'] Get a P bass pup installed in the P bass position and a scratchplate made to fit and then fit something like a John East P bass preamp, its all reversable other than the body route that will be covered by the pick guard should you wish to sell it, we have seen them before in the FS already done [/quote] I think the problem with a P pick up is it's designed to give more treble on the D and G strings by positioning - something you don't need on a Ray - the first prototype had a reversed P style pick up (D and G section closer to the neck) presumably to counter the effect. As it sounds like you want a Fender but with the playability of a Musicman, another route could be to buy an after market series wound pick up (as per the Sterling) - in series form the sound is more Fender-ish than the parallel version - it boosts the mids quite a bit. Other than this, you are probably already aware that the Stingray is very responsive to changes in playing style and EQ settings - it's entirely possible to get P bass thump by playing towards the neck with significant muting of the strings (less if you use flats) - you don't even need to alter the EQ setting as the treble helps to define the thump created by your playing. Other than that, if you really favour the Fender and Warwick, it maybe better to stick with them.

I would say it's late 80s to very early 90s. The six bolt neck attachment and truss rod wheel commenced early 90s. If you join the Ernie Ball Musicman bass forum, there is a sticky thread on there for individual bass info - give them your serial number and request all of the info they have on your bass and someone from Musicman will respond with the date of birth, original spec and where it was shipped to etc. If your bass is trans red it's likely it has an alder body (most trans red were alder up to the 2000s). Many trans red of that era had transparent pick guards also - 87-88 era is most likely. Arguably slightly smoother sounding than an ash bodied Stingray. You can get a new mute assembly for the bridge - it's sold as a Musicman part - phone Strings and Things, the UK Musicman distributor and they should either be able to order you one or point you to a dealer who can. You have to loosen the bridge screws/bolts to slide the old one out/new one in. V nice bass btw!