drTStingray

The classic Stingray has a high gloss varnished neck finish. My 93 Stingray also has a varnished neck but it's more of a satin finish. In terms of weight, Stingrays are around the 9.5 lb mark - I used my Classic SR4 for around 4 and a half hours of gigs yesterday, and do not have any aches as a result. I do see where Dingus is coming from on this and I would not wish to play a 10.5 lb bass for that long. Reflexes and Bongos can tend to be a little lighter I believe. However sub 8lb USA Sterlings and even Stingrays are not unknown.

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1350488285' post='1839595'] I've really got the sound of each bass firmly established in my head now. So much so that I heard something earlier & decided to play along and immediately knew that the '64 was going to sound best. [/quote] Forgive me for asking, but are you guys playing authentic 60s music on these - I could imagine the sound fitting a Beach Boys tribute or something, but NOT a Beatles one. I like the 71 - lovely wood - not so sure about the metalwork though but it's your bass etc. Is that one ash and the others alder? I also like the LPB.

[quote name='Stance' timestamp='1350222518' post='1835910'] are you sure is SR5?- It sounds more like Tobias [/quote] One of the tracks I heard has fast, poppy 16ths, fingerstyle and it does sound like an SR5............but who knows! As you say it could be something different. I've certainly seen him using one in that era. +1 on the film, it will be very interesting.

I think you're doing Trujillo a dis-service in terms of his playing - have you heard him in the band Infectious Grooves? Some nice SR5 sounds - a bit like Level 42 fingerstyle at times. He must be one of the most technically able of modern bassists.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1350143167' post='1835134'] See above...I'd like one VM and one TM...probably 5ers...they seem to look better in 5 string format. I'm edging towards maple. [/quote] These look very unlike Bongos with piezos.......... They look rather like (whispering) [size=1]Fender copies[/size]. V nice looking though.

I had an Antoria Jazz bass copy from new at the beginning of the 70s - it was in a sort of walnut colour, with rosewood board, blocks and binding on the neck - the only thing non Jazz copyish about it was the pick ups, sort of mini humbucker looking things with flat chrome covers. It sounded great - came with black tapewounds and I actually learned to play on it. I moved to Rotosound rounds eventually - I recall the bridge pick up was nowhere near as powerful as the neck one. I replaced it with a new Stingray in the late 70s and sold on the Antoria eventually - I would love to have a go playing it again! Does anyone know what model it would have been? At the time, Antoria were considered the best of the copies available, and later ones looked/felt like the real thing.

[quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1349512566' post='1827150'] Edit: Arrrghh what's the point, I've lost the will..... As long as you're happy with your basses. [/quote] You're not being very helpful to someone seeking info - there must be some difference in the pick ups - or maybe there isn't? But ultimately you're right - it's as simple as that.

The brand strategy of companies like Fender and Musicman is pretty straightforward - those buying in at the entry level aspire to the more expensive version, those who buy the middle range one do the same - so they sell more equipment and cultivate brand loyalty - if they can back up with a good product and service. It's similar with cars and lots of other brands - of course some people buy a basic Mini or Hyundai and never want to upgrade to something more expensive. I think the problem musical instrument makers have is building in enough differential between the different level of product to justify the vast ranges in price. My questions about Fender pick ups were bona fide - I don't know the technical differences but hear people talking about noiseless cobalt, vintage custom etc etc and suggesting you need to swap the pick ups out of an MIM. I know this is part of the genral culture with Fenders but modding is much less prevalent with the main brand I know (Musicman) so I'm curious about the culture - reminds me of the after market for car modifications/go faster equipment.

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1349462925' post='1826746'] The big thing though is ........ there is THAT Precision sound which cannot be replicated. It's most noticeable (to me) on the low G note. A sort of thud with a burble, which, if the sound could be translated into English........ would say "rock'n'roll". Accept no substitute. [u]Nothing [/u]even comes closes. Fender MIA Precision. Strap on. Rock. [/quote] I'm afraid I disagree - the 2band Stingray with the EQ boosted extends those drivers far better than a P bass (ie old school thump), no matter which continent was its origin. I'm curious about two things:- Firstly pick ups - what is the difference between a MIA pick up and a MIM one - surely they're to the same spec anyway in terms of material and winding - why wouldn't they be - it doesn't really make sense. What difference is a 'vintage custom pick up' - does it make much difference? Secondly - I take the point for solid colours that MIM may have more body pieces than MIA (though I don't buy the fact that MIA have only two). But for trans such as sunburst, how do you hide the grain joints?? I would doubt this is possible without a veneer and they don't seem to have that. Just curious.

[quote name='bengovier182' timestamp='1349441044' post='1826358'] Thanks a lot guys, an ad just popped up for one and figured id get a little bakground on them. Cheers, ben. [/quote] I suggest if its used, and an MIA Sub you ask the year the bass was made and the serial number (on the back of the headstock for an MIA Sub) - if you register on the EBMM Musicman bass forum, you can post the serial in the sticky thread at the top and they'll reply with year, colour etc and you can check whether its bona fide etc. You ought to check whether its active or passive - the passive are OK but obviously not as powerful. If it's an SBMM sub it can only be a couple of months old at most. An MIA Sub bass is a great value used bass.

[quote name='badboy1984' timestamp='1349440225' post='1826341'] i would personally pick the Musicman SUB any day over the sterling by musicman because the Musicman SUB is a proper musicman bass but just a lower model compare to their famous stingray version etc. Is just like Fender MIM which is a proper Fender compare to Fender Squier. [/quote] Not totally - the SBMM basses are closer to the American MM basses, if only by the extent of range covered and finish standard available. In hindsight I think the SBMM Sub would sit somewhere between an MIM and Squire.

Attached is a pic of the pau ferro fretboard of my fretless Stingray (1993) - it is quite swirled around 14th fret and 3rd fret areas by previous owner use of roundwounds and particularly, has a bit of a ridge between 12th and 15th fret under the G string (from extensive use of groundwounds by me). As a result I moved to flatwounds - I tried lots of types but have settled on Ernie Ball Group 3 flatwounds (100, 80, 65, 45). These give a great sound and the bass has tons of mwah - and they have similar tension to roundwounds (some flatwounds seem to have huge tension which affects playability for me). I have used this bass as a main gigging bass in a couple of bands so has had a lot of use - but it does show that roundwounds will (in Jaco's words) eat your fretboard - especially if you use the bass on a regular basis for performances. I just didn't fancy having to have expensive work done on mine, which has a great figured birds eye maple neck and fretboard, too often.....it's not cheap to do either. [attachment=120202:basses 001.jpg]

Simple ... but complicated as well. Musicman Sub Bass - made from about 2003 to 2005 ish - USA built cheaper versions of the Stingray (with 4 or 5 strings) and Sterling 4; poplar slab body (no contours for belly or forearm); limited colours; textured finish; painted neck (like the Bongo), with rosewood board; available as 2 band active EQ (or in the case of the Stingray passive also); chequerplate aluminium pickguard; 5 string is as 4 string Ray in terms of oval pickguard and body (ie not the regular SR5 body). If you see one available used v good value for money and get the 2 band Stingray sound exactly (in the case of the active versions). Sterling By Musicman (SBMM) - more affordable versions of the Sterling 4, regular SR4 and Classic SR4 and SR5 basses in limited colour finishes and single pick up only - made in Indonesia (same factory as Laklands etc) using some parts shipped out from USA; set up and quality checked in USA; generally have cheaper hardware, but swamp ash bodies (SR) and basswood (Sterling), some with trans finish (honeyburst or natural) and every bit a more affordable version of the MIA Musicman basses. The version of the Classic SR4 has a Sterling profile neck abd 2 band EQ - the other models have the 3 band EQ. SBMM Sub Series - Released a couple of months back - low price point (£250) version of the SBMM basses (except SR5 is the SR4 type with oval pickguard etc (whereas the regular SBMM SR5 is literally a more affordable version of the normal EBMM SR5 with coli tap, 3 band EQ, teardrop pickguard and contoured body edge) - active 2 band EQ only; limited range of finishes including walnut stain - can't remember the body wood but it's a hard wood local to Indonesia. Again, these are said to cop the MM 2 band vibe very well at a low price point, so a good back up bass or higher priced entry bass, or upgrade from a cheaper Fender copy. Probably the best analogy in terms of quality and range is Fender Custom Shop (MIA MM) (because EBMM generally allow far more choice of colour, pick up config, neck config etc and high quality standard; after sales customer service - effectively a custom shop); somewhere between MIA and MIM Fender (SBMM) and somewhere between MIM Fender and Squire (SBMM Sub). Price wise, they compare as MIA, MIM and Squire ranges.

I thought as a post script to this thread I would let on a little additional information. I raised the self same thread topic on Talkbass on the same day - got 20 replies and about 200 views - 3 or so useful replies and a number questioning my religious belief and various other random strangeties - basically it bombed. At the same time, a guy raised a thread seeking views on the best colour of replacement scratchplate on a vintage white Precision - got around 1500 views and tens of replies...........almost all tort needless to say. An interesting forum (or maybe cultural) comparison I thought. I have spied a nice sonic blue Fender Jazz (64 I think), fairly mint, and a battered 62 fiesta red Precision - strangely the latter seems very attractive. So the GAS is beginning to swell - but alas no cash at this stage. But there again I have started lusting after a Status (Chris Wolstenholme's fault) - I think I must be having yet another repeat mid life crisis.........................!!

Some people will disagree with you - but wait till you get that Bongo!!! The bass EQ control alone is a wonder to behold - can damage structures instantaneously!! If you haven't tried them, EB Grp 3 flats on a Ray are wondrous. Possibly on a Jazz as well.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1349181564' post='1822827'] So far, still very happy. Part of me wants to get a matching Jazz with a glossed maple board...but that is the collectors side of me coming out. [/quote] Gareth remember you will soon be taking delivery of your tangerine pearlescent Bongo, at which point everything in the world of bass will fit into place.................glad you're enjoying your Jazz though. In the meantime, just boost the mid range on your amp a little to overcome the scooped sound if you feel the need - but remember the audience may not be hearing quite the sound you do on stage. I do this sometimes with my Stingray 2 band in a guitar heavy mix (well to be precise a guitar mix where they're playing in similar sonic territory as the bass - but possibly at or near their soloing volume). I find with a Stingray HH, particularly in the 2 humbucker setting, I like to boost the mid control on the bass a little and cut the bass control a little. I think it's the same issue to be honest - clearly you'd need to control it from a box or the amp if you're using a passive or 2 band EQ Jazz.

[quote name='AndyTravis' timestamp='1349043720' post='1821150'] MIM are usually 4/5/6 piece bodies, and the sunburst ones have a thin laminate of alder on the back and front to hide the joins with a thick black burst to hide the end joins. USA basses are 2/3 piece alder. The USA necks have rolled fingerboard edges for a played in feel and graphite rods in the neck for improved stability. The USA basses are optional string through body, and have much nicer hardware and a hard case. The American Special basses are a mix of the two. The MIM's are good solid basses, workhorse type reliable basses. A good MIA bass will end up a soul mate if it works for you. The 2008 onwards basses are very special. [/quote] Thanks - that's useful. I guess the pick ups may be slightly different spec as well. My son has a Mexican Tele in sunburst which is very nice - bit the trans finish doesn't seem to show so many body joints as 6 to 8. FWIW I have tried both MIM and MIA P and J basses and I agree with your description (not tried a post 2008 MIA yet though). I am a Musicman player and would draw an analogy between the SBMM (not the Sub) and USA versions of those instruments - I dont think they are 6 or 8 piece though.

Can someone tell us, dispassionately, what is the differenece. I know one is made in Mexico, which reduces production costs, but what other differences are there, materials wise?

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1348686521' post='1816989'] ooooff this is one of the things that put me of any stingray - my current basses range from 7.8 - 9 pounds - over 10 seems very heavy - my old T40 was about 13 pounds.... [/quote] Luke not wishing to be rude but if you read the above posts, the current EBMM basses tend to be lower than 10 lbs - in fact some are super light - your idea that all Stingrays are over 10 lbs is actually wrong. Now pre Ernie Balls can be super heavy (I've heard of them up to 15 lbs). You are right that they tend to be a bit heavier than the basses you mention, however. I'm with Dingus re the weight of basses - you'd be amazed how, if you're not in the first flush of youth, a heavy bass can give you back strain/ache. However I disagree on tone v weight - my least favourite bass, tone wise is my lightest, and my favourite is the heaviest - however I would doubt anyone blindfolded out front would be able to tell which was which from the sound (or indeed what type of bass they were unless I was playing out front (soloing) or slapping or something.

Any preference on bass colour? What guitar(s) do you have - will you be igniting it (faithful Hendrix repro)? Just curious how close you're aiming. Seriously I'm far too old. Anyway best of luck.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1348602216' post='1815913'] 9.5 pounds is my cut-off point for any bass nowadays. That's the upper limit of what I find comfortable. [/quote] Interestingly, someone on the EBMM forum has just ordered a PDN Bongo from the Perfect Bass - weighed at 8.9 lbs (mahogony body) - seems excellent to me.

My SR4 Classic is 9lb 8oz - however it does have a slab body also, so a bit more wood to the body than the regular Ray - this seems to be the fairly common weight of current basses. However I also have a 2007 SR4HH which is under 9lbs. I have heard of Sterling 4s as low as 7lbs 9 oz. I can understandyour point on weight of basses being important - it never used to bother me but a run of two or three gigs with a heavy bass takes its toll on the back - I do find, however, that a heavy bass with excellent balance is less of a problem - I find the worst situation is a heavy bass with poor balance.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1348529374' post='1814970'] They are stunning. Now a Reflex 5 HH PDN as well. One of the best Ltd series they've made. [/quote] WIthout a doubt - you mean this Reflex [url="http://forums.ernieball.com/music-man-basses/54488-now-something-different-pdn-reflex-hh-5-a.html"]http://forums.ernieball.com/music-man-basses/54488-now-something-different-pdn-reflex-hh-5-a.html[/url]

[quote name='martin8708' timestamp='1348489686' post='1814191'] Burgundy Mist Slab board 62 P bass Foam Green Slab board 62 P bass Shell Pink Slab board 62 P bass Surf Green Slab board 62 P bass These seem to be the top - dollar P basses in the Vintage Guitar Price guide . Best of luck finding your bass. [/quote] Cheers - thanks for that. Looking at my copy of the custom colour chart circa 1961, I don't think I've ever seen a surf green Fender instrument let alone a bass. Foam green is the one I'm more familiar with (as per Willie Weeks' Precision on the Donny Hathaway live album). No offers from anyone on the Musicman question then..............I have noticed certain limited editions are commanding higher prices than standard used instruments already. I can see no reason why the late 80s/early 90s basses won't start to increase in value as they get older as there appears to be a decent market in used basses and they have a substantial following generally as basses - perhaps third behind Precision and Jazzes. Time will tell I guess - but I do recall a few years back early 80s pre EB Rays were relatively cheap - they have now almost caught up with their seventies counterparts.

I know the feeling Just think, Gareth - you could have one of those shipped as well Have you seen the pic of the Bongo 5 PDN and the natural finish Sterling Classic on the MM forum............some seriously nice basses being produced..........and bought (unfortunately not by me ). And I have vintage Fender gas on top of all that!