drTStingray

It sure looks woody anyway!! I've yet to see a 4 or 5 string but these look yummy to me. The necks are wax and oil finish, roasted birdseye and look stunning also.

I'm thinking of buying a vintage bass, largely as an investment, to play at home and maybe very very occassionally for gigs etc. I hear lots of talk of this year is better than that, this colour is better than that etc etc but I'm keen to hear advice on this. My likes are:- clay dots/rosewood board; sunburst, blonde, fiesta red or sonic blue - don't care if it's a Precision or a Jazz - would need to be fully functional and as original as possible - i.e it would need to have the covers and case etc etc. If a Precision I don't like the pre-57 shape. So guys, please advise - what do you think is the best year, colour and model to aim for of a pre CBS Fender, bearing in mind it's intended to be an investment and increase in value.

I must confess the picture of this 6 string Bongo in the PDN2012 series (honeyburst, mahogany body, roasted birds eye maple neck, pao ferro fretboard) made my heart skip a beat. Now a six string is beyond me, but a 4 or 5 in this configuration is a mouthwatering temptation. The burst colour seems to tone down the futuristic look of the body shape to my eyes, also. [attachment=118670:bongo 6 mahogany honeyburst.jpg]

Interesting - presumably it was either broken in the incident, the other guys removed it so it didn't wind him up again, or it went back to the manufacturer from whom it had arrived. Perhaps it was something they just wanted for that track and they borrowed it - according to the quote, he told them never to let him play it again, so it's hardly likely he'd refer to it in 1979 I guess.

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1347742165' post='1804618'] I'll stand corrected if wrong, but it is quite a famous story, which is claimed, by a fender R&D rep, to have damaged the reputation of the Bass V. I'll find the actual story at some point, its quite a famous story, as the original poster stated. Can't imagine JJ having an issue with a fretless, as he was a doghouse player, ewhereas the Bass V, is just a dog to play! I'm off to trawl my many books to find the story...... [/quote] I think it extremely unlikely that Jamerson's view would have damaged the reputation of the Fender bass V especiallly as Jamerson was only really known to fellow Motown session players, Motown's hierarchy and American musos until the Dr Licks project and subsequent film (published 1989). When I first noticed Jamerson's playing (early 70s), nobody seemed to know who it was and none of the guys were credited at the time. I've never played a bass V but eyed one very suspiciously in a music shop in the late 60s - during which visit I played a Precision for the first time - and was astonished at the neck width - mind you I was only a young teenager. I have noodled on a bass V1 before - they both seem to be aimed at the baritone sound market (by having high tuned upper strings) popuralised on a number of early 60s songs, but to allow you to play bass as well - not sure how the bass was supposed to continue whilst you played the lead though............thus I suspect the bass V and V1's fortunes waned with the change in musical taste (briefly re-popuralised by Galveston by Glenn Campbell) - and the need to have a bass player as well if you were going to perform live - thus guitarists like Hank Marvin tended to use them as an additional lead instrument on occassional tracks. I also suspect that the section in Dr Licks' book has been misread or misremembered by people and re-quoted (as I did - thinking it said Precision fretless when it just says fretless). The bass V, Hagstrom and fretless are all mentioned in the section as occassional uses (when not using his Precision), but JJ's wrath is quoted as being taken out on the fretless, by the keyboard player on the session. Based on the timing of the Supremes track, this would put it at 1968/9. What fretlesses were available then? Ampeg baby bass - Fenders? There can't be many to choose from. Although he was an upright player, the sound of an upright can help to mask the sound of slight imperfections in playing intonation (hoping not to upset upright players here) - for anyone who's played a fretless electric, there is no hiding place - imperfection in intonation is clearly audible. So if JJ wasn't used to this and was recording with it the first time he played it, it is entirely possible to imagine frustration occurring, especially as the Motown studio is described as a production line - he would thus be under pressure to nail it quickly (and have an enviable reputation for doing so normally) - and he did have a reputation for being a little volatile at times............... For any bass player interested in R and B style bass playing, the Dr Licks book and CDs/transcriptions which come with it are a fabulous resource - there's nothing like hearing Pino, Marcus, Jack Bruce and many others play arguably some of the best pop/soul bass lines ever recorded. It will be interesting to hear what you come up with, Essential Tension. Also if any of the vintage buffs know what fretlesses were available in 68/69 that would also be interesting. And whlist I think about it, my Lak(e)Land's dry as a bone.................

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1347631095' post='1803325'] This. [/quote] Not a Fender bass V - it was an undisclosed make of fretless. And try as I might my Jaguar neither purrs nor makes any other big cat noises.....

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1347628912' post='1803273'] I did say that my calculations were rough. I didn't allow for the thickness of the cab material (just took the outside dimensions), the fact that the cab isn't a basic six-sided object but has two wedge shaped cutouts at the back which reduce the overall volume, not did I factor in the reduction in internal cab volume due to space occupied by the speakers and any other items inside the cab, so 350g is somewhat optimistic! [/quote] I've been going over and over this and can't get the weight loss at more than 327 grammes............... And would the helium not make the bass sound all tinny with no balls I would also like to see a sealed 8 x 10 Ampeg refrigerator filled with sand - I've heard that Abbey Road studios used a big speaker cabinet with an 18 in speaker ballasted with sand for bass guitar recording purposes in the early 60s - apart from increasing the weight hugely I'm not entirely sure what effect this will have, but as it's based on a vintage idea it must be good eh??

[sup][size=5][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Here's my take on the question, based on basses I've never played:-[/font] [font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Musicman Gamechanger[/font] [font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Musicman Bongo fretless[/font] [font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Wal[/font] [font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Alembic[/font] [font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Status[/font][/size][/sup]

[quote name='walbassist' timestamp='1347572453' post='1802729'] Well there you go, apologies To make up for the error of my ways I offer up my 1970 fretless P in (viewing only) tribute.... [/quote] No prob - and what a fabulous looking bass. Have you modified the controls?

I have had periodic GAS for these after being blown away by seeing both Alan Spenner and Percy Jones play these several times in gigs (Kokomo and Brand X) about 30+ yrs ago. Fabulous sound - mind you rather good players as well...........

Indeed

Glad you love it again Mcnach - they work really well on 2 band as well, I suspect possibly not least because of the mid range boost they give. I have them on my Bongo................it is not allowed out at public performances as I'm not insured for blowing walls out of venues!!! It is VERY powerful!!!

[quote name='Emanew' timestamp='1347478381' post='1801481'] First, i agree with you drTStingray about having this Jaco Pastorius Modern Bass DVD. As a suprising example, Jaco tells why he never praticed with a fretless. About this picture with teenager Jaco holding a brand new Jazz Bass : This JB is a 1966 instrument with pearloïd blocks, lilipop tuners and a specific sunburst (yellow very visible). It has a CBS era look. The two Jaco's most famous sunburst basses are : The Bass of Doom is a 1962 jazz Bass sunburst. Jaco made it a homemade lined fretless with clay dots. From Fender's site : " Nicknamed by Pastorius himself, the Bass of Doom was a stock 1962 Fender Jazz Bass, purchased at a pawnshop in the early 1970s. Pastorius originally removed the frets with a butter knife, filling the slots and missing chunks with "plastic wood" and covering the fingerboard with several coats of boat epoxy. This "customized" bass would be the only fretless instrument Pastorius would ever record with." His other sunburst is a 1960 fretted JB. He also removed pickguard and concentric Stackknobs ( replaced by a 3 knobs set giving more punch according to Jaco). The neck has also clay dots. This fretted Bass can be heard in "Portrait of Tracy", sublime harmonics. Both of these 2 basses can be seen in Joni Mitchell's Live "Shadows & Light" I hope it will help. [/quote] Thanks for this and I will check out the Joni Mitchell. I have the studio albums - they're fantastic! As for sounding like Jaco - well only he did that. However I do try to play some of his lines..........generally on Stingray H fretless or Stingray 5.

[quote name='walbassist' timestamp='1347516178' post='1801812'] I'm pretty sure the reputed bass was a Fender Bass V and not a fretless P. [/quote] I've always quite liked fretless Precisions - especially those early ones with maple boards. To clarify the Jamerson reference, it was the fretless Precision (ref is Standing in the Shadows of Motown - Life and Music of Legendary Bassist James Jamerson) - it refers to him having played the fretless on the Supremes 'Someday, We'll Be Together' - it's actually a quote from keyboard player Earl Van Dyke who said he almost threw it at the wall and said "don't you ever let me play this piece of sh*t again". Presumably didn't work how he wanted.

[quote name='cloudburst' timestamp='1347382025' post='1800041'] Being in the market for an unlined fretless, I toddled off to my local music store. "Fancy that - a fretless Precision", I thought, "that will be just the ticket". Precision my a*se. My intonation was (still) all over the place. [/quote] James Jamerson - a noted upright and fretted Precision bass player, is reputed to have thrown a fretless Precision at the wall of the Motown studio, after using it for a session. Not precise enough, perhaps

Good lord there's some very strange basses appearing in this thread - very small string gauge Spookily, I know two people with those Dean things in that colour as well. Cloudburst, is this the colour you meant? [attachment=117981:24042010424.jpg][attachment=117980:24042010423.jpg] Actually was called sunburst back when this bass was new (1993) - became honey burst a few years later. And not to be outdone by Dean............. [attachment=117982:24042010450.jpg]

[quote name='Castagné' timestamp='1346433476' post='1789248'] The serial n° is C00185X so according to musicmanbas.org, I could say mine is a 79, but not sure... [/quote] It sure is a great looking example - I wouldn't bother to lift the neck, just in case - it would be a shame to cause any damage just out of curiosity. As you say, almost certainly a 79. [quote name='Kees_SoS' timestamp='1346483019' post='1789680'] Later, there were many problems with the truss rods due to suspected sabotaged tooling, as well as issues with the lacquer, sometimes caused by the padding in the cases. [/quote] Not sure the truss rod problem appeared on instruments - it's been documented that the dispute between the people making the necks and the people selling MM basses after Leo Fender left resulted in a batch of necks with straight truss rods being provided - never heard of them appearing on basses. The early 80s ones (up until EB took the rights on in 1984) were made by Charvel Jackson - indeed many people swear by these as several of the colours had alder bodies so sound a little smoother than ash. I think the case glue reaction problem applied to EB basses around 88-90 ish, most particularly (possibly uniquely) with the blueburst finish - as they only made about a few hundreds of all basses with that finish (musicmanbass.org), and some were re-finished because of that, if you have or find a good one in that gorgeous finish, then it's quite rare. Imagine a Sabre in blueburst..........drool they do exist - one or two in Gav's listings.

Hear hear - well said.

Wow - that is fabulous - what year is that bass?

[quote name='gafbass02' timestamp='1346245891' post='1786935'] Hah hah. Godamn iPhone auto correct! Thinks it knows everything!! [/quote] Lol

What a finish! That's fabulous - enjoy.

[quote name='gafbass02' timestamp='1346224093' post='1786580'] but found I always needed a good old passive jazz on hand. Nearly every time I took one in the studio I ended up playing the Jazz... [/quote] I think it's like learning to ride a bike - eventually you don't need the stabilisers As far as I can see, this can be a bit of a comfort blanket - which often appeals to the guitarists and sound engineers rather than the bass player. Can you imagine someone having told Kossof he should have been playing a Strat cos he didn't sound like Hendrix - people seldom question the guitarist's choice of tools to create his sound..........not so the bass player - just my personal experience. I have absolutely no doubt a Warwick is a fully competent studio instrument with the ability to cover all the 'utility' bass sounds and a lot more as well - but as with everything, it will depend on the player skill (and recording engineer's skill).

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1346186576' post='1786351'] they are designed for Warwick instruments, and don't do exactly the same things a fender designed preamp will.... [/quote] What Fender make instruments with pre amps when did this happen. Seriously though, I had Warwicks down as having significant bass boost - indeed a fundamental part of the signature sound.

I don't recall him saying that it's not his in the video (I haven't got it to hand - it's my sons - a present I bought him a few years back!) - he definitely talks about the Precision neck and exercising his fingers - he says he sometimes fits them to improve his technique, or something similar. I was aware he had more than one Jazz bass (there's a stripped fretted one shown on the live solo album) - however the one in this video looks to be his stock modded sunburst one (ie the latterday named bass of doom), but fitted with a maple Precision neck. One other thing he talks about in this instructional video is the reason he doesn't use a Precision - all to do with the sound possibilities, and overtones IIRC - he's rather dismissive of the idea. I couldn't recommend more highly getting a copy of this - awesome playing on display, and lots of insights into technique and practicing routines, even though Jaco is a little flaky at times, the playing generally is not - and if only to see Jaco chuck his bass to Kenwood Dennard, the drummer, on the final note after one of the live pieces - and Kenwood actually catching it - the next shot is Jemmott interviewing Dennard - first question (with said bass propped up against the drums in the background) - what's it like playing with Jaco - long pause for thought - Dennard says it can be interesting, very interesting - still looking visibly shocked and bemused by the preceeding event!! It appears Jaco was bought a Fender Jazz by his parents when he was a kid - on the Jaco tribute compilation album, amongst some interesting photos is a picture of him as a kid holding a brand new sunburst Fender Jazz complete with ashtrays. My guess is that this was his main bass from then onwards - becoming the heavily bashed and modified version of 15 to 20 years later.

Just fabulous and also illustrates the point - notice the Jazz has a maple necked 70s Precision neck fitted - Jaco says in the video it's to exercise/stretch his fingers - they already look twice as long as mine anyway! I do worry when he bends harmonics, by bending the neck on Jerry Jemmott's neck through bass! I wonder how many people have cracked the finish in their bolt on neck basses around the neck plate copying this (I know of two basses not a few yards from where I'm sitting which have suffered from this )