drTStingray

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1346145514' post='1785682'] You'll need to roll off the attack a bit.... which is why active basses don't work so well. [/quote] I politely disagree with this statement - it is possible to roll off the attack on a active bass by cutting the EQ (presuming you have a bass with cut and boost EQ) - and remember it's all in the fingers as well - changing playing attack achieves this also.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1346082455' post='1785001'] USA MM Customer Service said that in the circs, they would authorise a USA dealer to ship to a UK customer, but the warranty would be difficult to follow up. [/quote] I have to sau I'm not too fussed on the warranty having never had to have any work done on an MM bass - I know others have but I would take the chance on one of these. Well I found a USA dealer with a 3 band Ray (another that I checked has already sold the 3 band Ray H they'd ordered) - it seems there will only be a very small number of these instruments - 100 in USA across the whole bass range. I am very seriously tempted Pete - the Perfect Bass have a Big Al 5 in this spec on order!!

Unfortunately it's the current market conditions in the UK I guess. Not so many of us spending big money on basses. Pete - I didn't see that one - must have another look - there was a sunburst 79 Sabre on there about a week ago which gave me a bit of a shock. I have to keep saying to myself 'you don't need any more basses - you have no money to buy them' - I just know that I'm going to crack and make an offer on something at this rate!!

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1346082455' post='1785001'] USA MM Customer Service said that in the circs, they would authorise a USA dealer to ship to a UK customer, but the warranty would be difficult to follow up. [/quote] Well it looks like I may be contacting Beaver Felton again! I guess Amazon may have them also? Apparently the Perfect Bass have a H and an HH SR5. [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1346082917' post='1785011'] Watching the Big Al review clips Ed says the 5 string version is mahogany which helps make it lighter? [/quote] The very early Big Als were alder (indeed the 4 string one I tried a couple of years back was) - they changed to mahogany for all of them, as you say, to reduce the weight when they started producing 5 string Big Als. Musicman basses (with exceptions) tend to be in the 9 - 10 lb ballpark - I am guessing these PDN ones should be no exception.

Yes agreed it is a difficult area - mind you index linking over 21 yrs should add 100% ish to the original insured value?

Well I have major GAS again - this 2012 PDN Stingray is, to me, a thing of great beauty. Mahogany body, roasted non-laquered roasted birds eye neck, only available in honeyburst (pics are from the Music Zoo website). And it's available (or it was if you ordered one during the window) on the whole range - yes including Bongos!! They're about to appear, so I may have to do a trawl of dealers to see if anyone has any stock - I fancy a 3 band Ray in this finish. Musicman have said some of the mahogany bodies are also figured - luck of the draw if you get that. Has anyone on here ordered one?

I think he wanted $1300 for it - I had a look earlier and the posts been superceded by newer for sale items - you could PM him if you're a member. You mean the one with the extra string tree hole?? I must stop looking at Ebay - there's a couple or three great pre EBs on there at the moment - an early white SR5 with a birds eye maple neck - and a 20th Anniversary Stingray. I never much rated the 20th Anniversary Ray but I played at a mini festival a couple of weeks ago and a guy used one - talk about a thing of beauty - absolutely stunning. The one on Ebay has the original case and is a daft price currently. As for Big Als, have you tried phoning one of the big dealers like Andertons or Gak to see if you can get one to try out?

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1346063081' post='1784608'] I have gas for a Big Al 5, a Classic Ray 5 and a Shuttle max 9.2 two of which I know you have Bass Direct has a nice Classic 5 on offer that I would take if I could get it past the other half but I cant get the figures to stack up right now [/quote] I don't know if it's still available but Psychpider on the MM forum had a mint green classic 5 for sale (basses for sale thread) - do not look if you're susceptible to GAS - it has a stunning figured flame maple neck and board - he also said he would ship international presuming buyer paid - it is a stunner and I was sorely tempted. As for a Big Al, I haven't seen any in shops but S and T did have some.

For me, the signature sound is a nice fat sound like a Wal, or perhaps a Musicman with the bass boosted. I was listening to an Incognito album the other day and one particular track stood out and almost said 'this is a Warwick bass' to me - there are a lot of albums from the 90s with these or Stingray 5s. I've never owned one (largely because I don't particularly like the neck profiles) but lots of R and B and funk players seem to favour them - indeed a number of famous ones are current endorsees. Maybe they're coming back into fashion - hope so - they sound fantastic! I am hopeful that the current fashion/fad for a couple of basses designed in the 50s/60s (perhaps could be considered the Ford Anglia and Ford Popular of basses - certainly have analogies based on era, simple design and sometimes apparently, variable build quality) will diminish and open a little more space for some of the richer sounding instruments to be the holy grail for the aspiring bass player.

Not surprisingly, I've heard of quite a few of them - Larry Graham, Bootsy Collins etc etc. The sound of Warwick to me is a thick, focussed bassy/low mid sound which cuts through great but sounds very smooth. A sort of..........well woody sound!

There are a lot of different sounds on Jaco's recorded work. Desirable as the Jaco signature Fender Jazz is (I'd love one!!) I would not expect to be able to get the sound, say on River People, just using a passive Fender Jazz bass. Jaco's playing also has a lot to do with it. I find my fretless Stingray to be more in the ballpark than a couple of passive fretless Jazzes I've played. I guess it depends what part of the sound you're hearing - I know people get very esoteric about pick up spacing, replacing pick ups, bridges etc etc etc but I really do wonder whether this has as significant an effect as the skill and technique of the player?

[quote name='classrock' timestamp='1345317818' post='1776296'] All I can say is that nothing on this planet sounds like one of these. I am no historian but I know Leo Fender 'over-egged' the top end of the Stingray because of his hearing. Something changed when EB took over, they just mellowed the sound. [/quote] According to Musicman.org (independent and extensive website run by Gav (Rod Trussbroken - also a moderator on the Musicman forum) an MM enthusiast, the 2 band EQ has been the same since 1979. There were five or six different versions prior to that. However, other changes (6 bolt neck fixing), wood types, lacquer/no lacquer on neck, fretboard material and weight all seem to contribute to the sound. I find little fundamental difference between my old pre EB Ray and my Classic Ray (2010 model) - other than the better fit and finish of the new one (as you would expect with 35 years advance in manufacturing techniques). I too would like to hear/see more about this 76 Ray - I only played a 76 once before - seemed more mellow sounding than any other Ray that I've played.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1345213146' post='1775079'] I had wondered about this too. I had always presumed the Bernard had used roundwounds, as most players probably did by 1977, but that is just an assumption. If someone knows better then I wil gladly defer to them . I have no idea if flats or rounds came factory -fitted on the early production models of the Stingray, and I too have heard that quote about him using the same strings that came with the bass. What I do know is that in the later stages of his career he was definitely using roundwounds and favoured a brighter sound. If you listen to Bernard on this track from Let's Dance , for example, which must have been recorded in 1982 it sounds very much to me like the unmistakable tone of a Stingray with roundwounds: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cs8EkDyqCo[/media] [/quote] I haven't heard that before and I'm sure you're right. He also seems to use rounds on the 96 live performance at the Budekah. Not sure what strings the early basses had but my 79/80 one, which I bought new, had rounds when I got it. I think the idea at the time was too use the mutes if you wanted a flatwound sound. That whole performance of Ashes to Ashes is fabulous, and a great bass sound and performance also.

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1343392479' post='1750046'] 'Nard used flats, it would be difficult to get that sound with roundwounds. Lots if definition there though, notwithstanding his expertise in playing. [/quote] Are you sure - I remember seeing an interview with Nile Rogers - he said someone asked them as part of an interview with them both back in the 70s, what strings Nard used and Nard asked Nile if he knew what strings came on a Musicman............suggesting he hadn't changed them from new. My pre EB definitely came with rounds but I have no idea what make. All that said, the popping on We Are Family is definitely very similar to the effect on a Stingray with flats - but Bernard Edwards was a phenominally skilled player, particularly of groove so no doubt a great deal was in the fingers - he may also have had the mutes wound on.

[quote name='dmz' timestamp='1344967325' post='1771804'] Percy Jones used a fretless Precision on the first two Brand X studio albums - Unorthodox Behaviour and Moroccan Roll. He used one on the live album - Livestock - as well. Buy them all cause they're frickin brilliant ! If you don't have anything with Percy on it I'd recommend him very highly. Be aware that he will melt you brain though....... [/quote] Agreed - I saw them live in about 1979 - and he achieved this - but by this time with a Wal fretless - I never knew he played a Precision fretless. Incredible to think a jazz/rock band of this type were playing the same venues as the likes of Rose Royce, Funkadelic and Chic at this time in the UK.

Colin Hodkinson - Back Door Totally jazz/rock. Worth a listen............and will also melt your brain.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1344962411' post='1771704'] It's really nice that Fat Rich! ........I have seen some with really raised ones on EBMM basses in all sorts of odd combinations too.[/quote] Not on EBMM ones in factory spec, Pete - you may have seen multi pick up ones (as I have) which are single pu ones converted with two after market pick ups in raised pole form. The only other two pu MM basses with raised poles are Sabres with exposed poles.

[quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1344949818' post='1771512'] I was thinking about trading mine for a P bass....maybe I should be thinking twice about that [/quote] If anyone is thinking of this, try whacking a set of flatwounds on your Ray (preferably EB group 3s cos they have v similar tension to rounds) and then thump it like a P bass - you will find you have no further need to change bass plus, a mere tweek of the EQ will take you back towards sizzle tone, if you want it - and you will avoid regrets like Nottswarwick's. [quote name='Grand Wazoo' timestamp='1344953880' post='1771577'] yay +100000 [/quote] Good evening Grand Wazoo - I do remember the days long ago when a certain trans red SR5 was your baby but I accept you've moved on since then - but why oh why did you use spectacles that make normal bass necks look like they have wonky frets :-D .............only joking - they must sound great........and I must try one sometime.

I thought I'd post a few pics of my EBMM Classic 2 band 4 string Ray with a crazily figured birds eyed maple neck. It sounds as nice as it looks as well - Nirvana for me - instant Average White Band Shine album or Bernard Edwards! The bass was one of the first, if not the first Classic Stingray customer order (as opposed to dealer orders) from the UK - it's arrival was delayed by volcanic ash - it finally arrived in June 2010 and has been my number 1 ever since. Hope you enjoy.

Yeah the HH and HS Stingray pick ups have level pole pieces, as do all the SR5s (and Bongos etc). Only the H version of the Ray has the pick up poles like this (and it is based on the original 1976 design). There's clearly a lot of taste and personal choice involved in bass sounds, and what is/isn't a good string to string balance - for me the upper strings on a Jazz and Precision can sound rather overpowering in some situations (especially with the tone control on full). G and L overcome the problem on some of their basses by making all of poles adjustable - infinite discussion possibilities there as to what is the best balance I guess! This is an interesting mod, and obviously reversible if you don't get on with it - I'm now curious to try it myself and see what happens!! BTW lovely trans red Ray you have there If anyone's interested, you can order SR4H pick up covers from S and T - in white or black, if you fancy a change from what you have! Musicman started offering these when they launched the Classic series - in case anyone didn't like the colour the bass came with (eg mine is white (as delivered) rather than black as is usual on most Stingrays) - the white pu covers were apparently available as an option up to about 1977 on Musicman basses and are thus seen on Pre EBs occassionally.

Fat Rich, I've heard you talk about this before and no doubt it's worked for you. However, here's a point to consider. The A and D poles are raised on the single H pick up version of the Stingray - and they usually come from the factory set up with the saddles of the A and D string slightly higher than the E and G - by this means, the pick up poles and saddles match the curvature of the fretboard of the bass - and the strings follow this curvature. By flattening the poles off you lose this (and also by setting the saddles so they are all in line this happens). The question here is whether the problem arises on basses which have been re-set up so the saddles are in line? Of course, the pick up should also be set so the G string poles and the E string are the correct distance from the bottom of the string (if you go on the Musicman bass forum, there's a sticky thread giving FAQs - one is the set up details for a Musicman bass and they tell you the correct pick up height). [attachment=115594:15082010706.jpg] I have a 2EQ (which is more mid scooped than a 3EQ) Ray - it's still set as factory settings - it does not have a 'weak' G sound - indeed recorded live, ambiently, it sits beautifully in a guitar heavy mix and the G string sounds great - on high fills on the D and G string it also sounds great. Another case in point - I have a 3EQ Stingray Fretless H - that has a sweet 'patch' on the G string from about C (as 5th fret) to A (as 14th fret) - where holding a note it just swells to the most gorgeous fretless sound. It sounds just as you would expect a top quality fretless to sound - no weak G sound. All this is with factory setting basses which have not been modded. For those of you who believe the underlying sound of a Stingray is mostly EQ, put your ear to the top horn and play the bass acoustically - you get the underlying MM Stingray sound - the pick up and EQ just amplify that sound and as far as the EQ goes, tweaks up or down the parts of the frequency it affects - it's also interactive - boosting the treble affects the mids and lows and vice versa.........but beware...........it is possible to over scoop the sound on a Stingray and lose the strength (or at least as they sound on stage) of your higher strings..........beware also the sound guy who thinks all basses have a generic sound (usually Fender P.............).........so cuts the mids. Again, you will have too scooped a sound and the first thing you will notice is the higher strings sound thin.......and the bottom strings will be too bassy and overpower everything. As Musicman 20 has said, if you do swap the pick up or EQ, make sure you keep the bits because modified Musicman basses do not sell as well as stock ones - they tend to be a bass that few people modify. Most who have them love them as they come from the factory. Best of luck with your bass.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1344027219' post='1759019'] Maybe this is the time to go custom. [/quote] Or vintage?? There seems to be plenty of even modded and refinished vintage 70s timber out there at quite exhorbitant prices......certainly on a par with new Musicman and Warwick prices.

This has happened before - not too long after I bought a new Musicman for a very reasonable price (late 2003), they started selling them with the hard case as an added extra, to keep the price down. This lasted about a year before the prices dropped again - IIRC the hike then was to do with the exchange rate fluctuating significantly. Whether prices remain at that level will all depend on whether they can sell enough instruments at the higher price. I don't think these fluctuations affected the price of secondhand instruments significantly. Also, I have noticed that dealers undercut the distributor's recommended selling price significantly so it may not all be bad news.

[quote name='muttley' timestamp='1343816469' post='1755560'] OTOH, people upgrade such basses and keep the OE preamp gathering dust. Not because they want to return it to stock later, but more that they recognise that there is no market for OE pres, because every owner already has one... [/quote] Funny, I thought people bought a Musicman/Warwick etc cos they want it to sound like a Musicman/Warwick etc etc - who would buy a new 3 band MM if they really wanted a 2 band one etc etc. I don't totally buy the idea that there's no market for pre amps - there's even a guy on BC who is advertising made up MM Sabre pre amps - he's had quite a few replies so perhaps people do want their Fenders or whatever to sound like a Musicman - there seems a much simpler and practical solution to me - and if you have a Sabre with a knackered pre amp, no doubt EBMM may be able to help you. I liken this bass modding and customising business to car modding - many people don't bother but there again there are people who transplant, for example high powered Honda engines into old Minis - whatever floats your boat I guess! The point about retaining stock bits is a sensible one - a modded Musicman is not likely to be a very saleable commodity, at least for a market price.

A couple of possible reasons - it seems that a lot of people who buy Fender basses look to mod them with different pick ups and bridges and things - not sure why but it seems to be the case - thus there seems to be a lot of bits available. On the other hand, people who buy basses with pre amps, such as Warwicks and Musicman, Yamaha, Ibanez etc leave them as stock - those that do change the pick up/pre amp on a Musicman often retain the parts so they can return the bass to original spec for reasons of retaining resale value - Musicman won't sell you a pre amp unless you exchange the broken one - the same for all large parts of their basses. Thus the market for mods is more limited. Thus few bits for sale?? Just a theory!