drTStingray

I ordered both of mine when they were first announced (April 2018) - the 4HH arrived in August 2018 and the SR5HH in November - they were both a shade under £2300 (3+ yrs ago) and thus pre Covid and other worldwide lunacy - they aren’t going anywhere but you’ll understand, if they were, I wouldn’t be willing to let them go for much under £1800 each!! Also note the SBMM Neptune blue, although nice, is not the same as the 2014 Musicman PDN offering

Fabulous - Bongos are the secret weapon 😀👍 great colour as well - enjoy

Great comparison video - all sounds great. However, I must say the Stingray sound appears far more refined than the Yamaha sound, and particularly with the Yamaha in P pick up only mode - that’s probably more a general comment on a P pick up sound than the way the Yamaha achieves it - which it does very well IMO.

Though it pains me to say it, I’ve been involved in quite a number of these, one way or another…… 🥴 An interesting one which springs to mind was a gig in the Home Counties - I think Farnborough/ Aldershot way - we were booked for a NAAFI gig along with a deejay who worked for the same agent - on driving into the location, we were met by the spectacle of the deejay, who had been involved in quite a serious collision in his van, and was sporting a somewhat bloodied face and hands and a barely drivable van. Anyway he performed his role after being patched up a bit. However, the place was packed with young men, and another act on the bill was meant to be a stripper - who failed to show up. We went on stage with our rather attractive young lady singer to do our disco/soul set - you can imagine the atmosphere in this place - the slightly intoxicated and rowdy audience expecting our singer to be doing the exotic dancing as well 🥴 We got through the set without a riot occurring though it was one of the most nerve wracking gigs I’ve ever done.

Lovely 😎 - interesting you’ve strung the maple board Stingray Special with flats. How does it compare with the rosewood(or is it ebony??)/natural/ roundwound combination?

Looks more like a Fender Dimension IMHO. It sounds good. However the sound is only one aspect of the Stingray - there are a series of other factors, not least the exquisitely playable necks on the Stingray Specials.

Very very nice - lovely Classic 5 there. (Love the fretless as well)

The 2 band scoops if you put both tone controls on full - bring them back towards the centre of their travel and you’ll get more mid range if you want to cut through more. You may also improve matters by not having the volume on full (up the amp a little to compensate). It has to be remembered that the original Stingray was designed to be an upgrade of the Precision and to combine some of the characteristics of a Thunderbird and a Jazz, sound wise. Effectively a bass for the mid 70s onwards but equally at home on ‘vintage’ (I.e 60s) material. Those using P and J basses in studios were often using them through Alembic pre amps at that time (even Jamerson was using a bespoke ‘interface’ in the studio in the 60s) - the Stingray placed the pre amp on the instrument, in the hands of the musician. However you need the mutes to get the best level of thump out of a Stingray. The ceramic pick ups, in my experience, can add warmth or bite, dependent on how you play (my favourite Stingray 5 has a ceramic pick up).

Having found out recently Leon Silvers 111 played a Rickenbacker with flats on all those famous Shalamar/Whispers songs, I’m inclined to think they’re great for that post disco, Boogie type of R and B. Im often sceptical about comparison videos as a lot depends on the interface used, the way the basses are set up in terms of EQ etc and of course the player. In terms of the OP, I think the Stingray can be made to sound incredibly aggressive - a Wal also. The Thumb is generally a more woody sound - however I haven’t spent enough time with either a Wal or a Thumb to get the most out of them. Also, the correct comparison should involve an HH Stingray and an HH Wal.

I had heard he played a played a Wal when with Roxymusic, as did Alan Spenner.

You should re-inflate it!! If you hear the isolated bass tracks (a number shown in threads last year on Basschat), you can hear exactly which ones are on a Stingray (which is most of the 1978-80 tracks). The sound is unmistakable (whilst noting that Bernard’s strings were probably the GHS flatwounds it came with). I’ve heard Nile say various things on this when interviewed over the years - including that Bernard ALWAYS played a Jazz bass (which is clearly incorrect).

You have to go back to my post about three strands of people being turned on to jazz/funk. Not only did he heavily influence me, I was in a cover band in the late 70s, mostly doing prog (Camel and the like) but we also did Birdland and some Tom Scott stuff - probably 77/78 right after Heavy Weather was available. I quite sure the underground dance and DJ scene was not interested in this. I do accord with @Bean9seventy ‘s issue with colleges and the like and the distorted view sometimes projected - I actually discovered Jaco’s first solo album in around 2000 following an article on him in a bass magazine - and I was heavily into jazz/funk and a bass player when it came out. The idea it was universally heralded by bass players in the U.K. is ridiculous - I would also say I was far more influenced by Pino’s fretless work with Paul Young than Jaco back then - it was far more accessible - in fact on every juke box in a way Jaco never was. However possession of a couple of Weather Report albums in the late 70s/early 80s did result in ‘lifting’ some of his licks, though it would be about 2006, and in possession of a Hal Leonard book, that I learned some of his be bop stuff - and particularly Teen Town (always one of my favourite bass parts), and Portrait of Tracy. However I still have his second solo album on vinyl, which I’ve had since new - and I learned The Chicken from. IIRC I had it off our drummer, who was the source of many obscure jazz funk, disco and R and B albums - he didn’t like the Jaco album much and I would confess that much of it didn’t appeal to me until about 15 yrs ago, discovering some of his more obscure stuff!! Im sure my experience is not the same as everyone else but similarly I don’t think it was by any means unique or unusual at the time. You were more likely to be exchanging Louis Johnson or Larry Graham licks with other players than Jaco or Stanley Clarke’s. I would emphasise that this was the U.K. - in the US there were even some people using Precisions with flatwound strings at the end of the 70s - however not all - even Jaco used Rotosound roundwounds on his fretless by the mid 70s!!! Flatwounds (as with guitar) we’re very much a 60s throw back 😏

He’s using an Ibanez Musician I think (could be an Aria) 1981.

I was really referring to contemporary (then) pop and dance/R and B. It was not necessary for reggae, ska, rock etc etc

Interesting - I have 14 of them including Let It Be, Instant Karma, Black Knight, Sweet Dream, Love Like a Man, Let’s Work Together, both Chicago. The accent is very much towards the ‘progressive’ music as it was called then. I’m afraid the reggae and soul was very much the preserve (for white youths) of the skinheads and their nearer relatives (latter day mods). There was some total dross in the list, as you can see. 1970 was my first rock concert - Canned Heat supported by The Groundhogs - Birmingham Town Hall - the Groundhogs were excruciatingly loud - I don’t think I’ve encountered a louder gig since!!

If this was your budget for singles at age 13 in 1970, I’m starting to wonder whether you had ‘independent’ means @Happy Jack 😂😂 You've reminded of several long forgotten singles here - I probably have about 5% of these still in 45 rpm form. I reckon my vinyl album collection also is heavily skewed to 1969-71 or so.

I had one of those - used the head with a Carlsboro 1 x 15 for smaller gigs. Fabulous sound! The updated and more powerful version of the 360. Fearsomely loud with two cabinets (400 watts) - could drown the entire band!!! 😂

Im surprised you didn’t look at a Wal - they were ‘affordable’ back then. I chose a Stingray at the end of the 70s because I wanted that fat, staccato (Bernard Edwards) sound - active basses did that well with concurrent amps, as well as slap sound (Wals have a great slap sound as well). I was turned on to Wals at the time by Alan Spenner (funk and also Roxymusic) playing one and Percy Jones (jazz funk).

I recall seeing Upp live in the mid 70s - excellent band - I seem to recall that as with Phil Collins and Brand X, Upp started with some involvement from Jeff Beck. Yes - following on from the Japanese Fender copies, there was lots of choice of bass in the late 70s, early 80s. Basses to have in the late 70s were Musicman, Alembic (though the latter were the preserve of star players owing to their fearsomely expensive price) and Wals. Fender had ceased to be the bass of desire for aspiring musicians in this genre in the late 70s, from my point of view because clean, fat sound was required - a Jaco sound was a holy grail (without the fretless mwah) - the Ibanez Musician gave another option from the early 80s (though also expensive, nowhere near Alembic territory though the sound was in the same region). Arias also early 80s. They were all active basses - Fender didn’t make an active bass until the early 80s - I didn’t rate it either (neither did the music press). Also remember keyboards we’re taking over as the instrument of choice in the early 80s. The funk brothers would not have been considered as playing funk by the late 70s (in fact no one knew of them outside Motown circles). Bootsy was certainly funk but I don’t think he was playing a Jazz by the late 70s.

Good - there were several (probably 10 others) - the lead singer of one was Jaki Graham who became famous as a solo R and B singer in the 80s. Another similar was Ruby Turner though she was more traditional 60s R and B. Another local funk band, Rainmaker, was the support act on Stanley Clarke’s first tour - and yes when we heard Schooldays for the first time, and live - I was blown away by the bass sound and playing (pity he dropped and broke his double bass though……..)!! However the Brit funk thing was based firmly in the south east and grew out of the dance scene - that was part of the initial audience for bands like Freeze and Level 42 - the jazz funk fans embraced Level 42 also though 😏

There were signed funk bands from outside of London - this band missed their big break (booked for TOTP) - Elvis died two days before and the whole music industry recast itself in tribute mode for a month. They were a great funk band. https://www.birminghammusicarchive.com/muscles/

@Bean9seventy I think there are three strands of people discovering this jazz funk explosion of music (which was alongside disco) in the late 70s. 1) Specialist DJs and the pro dancers/ solo dancers at specific dance clubs and events - including the weekender gatherings etc etc - DJs would use 12” singles and often rare or new ones. Many bass chatters seem to ignore this important area of, to an extent, underground, Street activity. 2) Jazz funk and jazz rock fans who bought albums, generally not singles. A growing group of people owing to cross over albums from the likes of Weather Report. 3) The traditional night clubs were using a combination of hit disco and more obscure 12” stuff - the DJs in the night clubs probably picked up on this due to attendance at 1) and knowledge of 2). However tracks like Do What You Want To Do by T Connection were played regularly at the standard night clubs I went to at the time (they were great - high volume, thunderous Stanley Clarke-like bass). Most open minded musicians were influenced by this music, including playing slap and pop (although I initially developed a percussive fingerstyle approach to it - similar to what Stan Sergeant uses now). I was in camp 2 and 3, and also a bass player, who started with rock, slid into jazz rock and with a tendency towards R and B - so embraced all this fabulous bass work with open arms. I also started buying 12” singles in the late 70s to be the ‘club mix’ which invariably had more instrumental solos and breakdowns. It is also true that you would be unlikely to get past an audition on bass guitar without playing some slap in the early 80s. Anyone using a Precision with flats (there weren’t any in my experience, and hardly any playing any form of Fender bass) would be considered very much yesterday’s men - they may get work with in 60s tribute (very much for the older audiences at that time - much had yet to become acceptable vintage and nostalgia, and like Fender custom colour instruments, very much naff apart from dedicated collectors). We have to wait for the mid 90s Oasis type stuff for vintage to suddenly and gradually become the norm.

The first time I heard of Marcus Miller was on this track and the album Adrenaline of 1979 by David Bendeth - there are several tracks which sound like Level 42 before Level42. https://youtu.be/_jzoogxoYWg

You’re not John Taylor, are you 😎😀

I’m interested to hear your story on this @Bean9seventy - rather a lot of people who weren’t playing punk or ska in that era also walked away from them, myself included although in my instance it was rather earlier in the 70s.