drTStingray

I found what @Stacker or @Grinderman posted (not even sure who it was 😧) quite interesting.

It has struck me there must be a lot of closet would be (or actual) grammar school teachers (the type who’ll chuck a text book at your head for an undotted i, split infinitive etc etc rather than read the actual content) around here 😬 I seem to recall a guy who posted some interesting stuff but interspersed with random commas which also started a fury amongst the grammatical types shouting at the clouds for moving 😂😂

That said block capital emphasis does tend to grate a little….ever since Bill Gates or someone claimed it’s keyboard shouting. 

Anyone else seen a Jazz bass prototype? 😀

On 01/06/2021 at 13:10, 51m0n said:

…..Producers on the other hand, eat doughnuts....

I’m not sure Sir George Martin, Trevor Horn et al would agree with you on that 😏

2 hours ago, Jus Lukin said:

As a jobbing player, just getting back to earning, and still perhaps considering selling some of my fancier basses, all I can say to this thread is... 'ouch'.

I only need an instrument to do what's required, regardless of name or cost, but I also try to sell at a fair and reasonable price.

Everyone loves a bargain, but... is this a thread about revelling in the fact that tax paying musos who've recently been getting by on 70-80% of their earnings averaged over the last four years are perhaps in a position to have to sell great instruments at cut prices?

Whether prices have actually dropped or not, it feels pretty callous.

I certainly am very conscious there are people in the position you’ve described and really empathise with that  - however the point I’ve been making is it seems the price of instruments is on the up - including used as shown in cases in this thread - in the case of used Wal basses, they are now changing hands for in excess (way in excess in the US) of the price of a new one. So sellers, if they can find a buyer, should get a good price for a used instrument. 

I bought a used bog standard 3 band Ray in a nice colour, a bit battered for around £750 in 2014 - I wouldn’t expect to pay under £1000 for the same thing now, and significantly more if it was a Classic, Special or any other version out of the ordinary. Without wishing to appear disrespectful £600 for a used Ray seems cloud cuckoo land to me - they were £750 used back in the mid 2000s (15 yrs + ago) - £750 new in the early 90s - £600 may get you a used US Sub 5 these days. 

As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, look at the prices for used basses achieved in commission sales in various well known shops if you want to see realistic prices achieved (the seller clearly pays commission but taking that into account the prices are, in some cases, significantly different from what might be achieved here - the demographics of a forum may be far more specific than retail outlets, which may have a broader base - and many of the instruments listed do appear to sell - in the case of the rare ones I’m interested in - before I get the chance to buy them it seems 😩 !!!)

Just as an add on - I don’t think Fender prices have reached the stratosphere yet - I’m not sure if they have temporary immunity from supply chain issues as possibly their previous model of flooding the market and possibly stockpiling parts (wood for instance) might have given them a buffer whilst the items in the supply chain are sold/manufactured - however there are becoming issues of being able to purchase certain consumer goods at all (including certain bass guitars and amplification equipment). Presumably it will hit Fender eventually as well. Their financial model is quite different from others. 

2 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

Don't know if it's a great time to be buying ... pretty sure it's a very bad time to be selling.

 

Unless it’s a Wal - it looks like used prices are increasing of many types of basses particularly if the seller doesn’t mind waiting for the right person to turn up! Most new prices are increasing often because component costs are increasing or not even available. Shipping being a big issue throughout the supply chains for consumer goods. 

Many commentators think we may be heading for inflation - I can’t see ho it can be avoided given current circumstances - unless Government Consumer Price Index manages to only focus on those items which aren’t increasing.....  

In the film industry people have to put up with being called ‘gaffer’ (even if they aren’t ex members of the Sweeney), and ‘best boy’ etc etc 😀 they even get listed in the credits at the end of films. So I can see the need for more appropriate and precise terminology here. 

As we already have the acronym FOH, wouldn’t an acronym be best? Or just generic ‘sound’. 

A pet peeve of mine is the notion that the band and especially the bass player, just provide a basic ‘generic’ sound and the soundists at the desk create the overall band sound. This is, of course, rubbish. The amount of time and energy spent creating ‘the band’s sound’ on, say an album is huge and generally people going to see the band live would expect in general to hear a live representation of what they’d heard previously. When I saw Yes live in the 70s they did sound reasonably close to the recorded sound - notably the bass - similarly when seeing Free live that incredibly fat bass sound was present. In each case the band had created that sound and the team on the desk had mixed it to suit and fill the venue. 

For pub and local venues surely the same should apply.

In terms of being precious about the use of the term ‘Engineer’, I work in engineering in an environment where everyone is qualified or working towards some level of qualification, be they technical, engineering or some other discipline. There are people who are precious about using the word and I can understand it to an extent - there are also people who are simply being elitist though, some cringingly so 😧 something which doesn’t sit well with my 60s upbringing, where all forms of class-based elitism were (quite rightly) mocked by satirists and dismantled as the country grew out of archaic and inappropriate social structures. Music was part of that as was the business of sound recording, mixing/engineering. Remember when Cliff Richard and The Shadows and The Beatles started in the early 60s, it’s said the recording engineers wore white lab coats etc etc and there was a specific hierarchy of them, and defined set of rules (which these guys broke on occasion to create new sounds).  

I voted sound tech btw..... I’ve heard them called this often. Usually recording engineer in a studio. 


 

It’s not just the bass and drums which need to consider this. The guitarist needs to play in a way during the song which avoids the impression that a massive void has been created whilst they solo. This also applies more generally in music and isn’t restricted to three piece rock bands, for instance. 

A combination of changing the bass part a little, the drummer perhaps going to ride symbol and if there’s a separate vocalist, maybe adding tambourine might all complement the solo and subtly fill the void created during a solo. 

Its interesting this applies with a keyboard based band and the keyboard going into a solo from, say a boogie woogie style left hand - the bass playing an octaved walking bass to replace the missing left hand piano line can work (if the bassist can do it!!)

However if your three piece is based on the guitarist playing barre chords in frets 1 to 5 all night except when soloing, and also dependent on the sound they’re using, it may be difficult to compensate!! 
 

16 minutes ago, Killed_by_Death said:

 

I'm let down that Fender won't let people custom-order a P/P bass:

 

I’m sure the Custom Shop would - at a price....  - however Andy Baxter Bass has two nice 1980s Fender Elite Ps of this configuration in stock. 
 

https://www.andybaxterbass.com/products/1983-fender-elite-precision-bass-ii-pewter

I know I’m miles out of date but shouldn’t Dimarzio replacement P and J pick ups have white covers??!! 

This is really good - one of the most iconic bass lines ever - clearly a Fender Precision as well. Thanks for posting 👍

4 hours ago, JapanAxe said:

Hmmm... I probably wouldn’t take my Dingwall on a country gig though - my natural finish P looks suitably rustic!

I think people are far too picky with these things - I’m sure a Dingwall will do the job just as well if not better. I certainly wouldn’t worry about using a Stingray on one - they’ve often been used in that genre (in fact were first designed to cover that need) - I might use a sunburst rather than a sparkle one however - I suppose it depends how much standing out is acceptable!!! Probably the same for a Dingwall. 😬👍

Funny really - back in the day people (even famous pros) tended to have and use one instrument - the idea of multiple instruments and x is suitable for y genre have been a relatively recent phenomena!! 

14 hours ago, bubinga5 said:

Never played a P Bass. Tell a lie, I played a JV P for 30 seconds and a Yamaha bass with a P pickup once. Strange really, after 17 years not one P bass. Its possibly going to be a revelation when I do. 

Nope - me neither. It was my dream bass in the late 60s/early 70s - then I played one and realised playing wise it was too big for my hands to play sensibly. The sound was - well not brilliant. Then came on to the market a lot of other far more refined and versatile instruments (Alembic, Wal, Musicman) so the idea of playing a P waned completely as apart from punk rock, that sound was not really the one to have. Indeed I played an active one when Fender first introduced them in the early 80s. I disliked it intensely and thought it was an appalling instrument compared with a Stingray - in all respects!! 

In more recent years it’s been impossible to notice their resurgence in popularity. I’ve tried to like them and have played loads of different ones in shops with a view to buying - one thing I would agree with aficionados of the marque, they do vary - but as far as I can see, only marginally from one another. I find them more difficult to play complex lines and parts on. I have never found one in the last 20 yrs of looking that appeals enough to me to buy it. I did play someone else’s 1960 bass in a live performance situation but that was also underwhelming. I really have to work hard to get the definition my playing style is founded on. I don’t want my playing to sound woolly!! 

Ive thought of buying a pre CBS and also getting a CS one, the latter in colours I could choose but the big problem I keep coming back to is why - when would I use it? And despite what people say it’s like a step backwards in terms of refinement, especially in sound - they can sound reasonably refined but can also sound quite ‘agricultural’. 

Im also reminded of the countless local gigs I went to in the 70s where the bass either sounded shite or was barely audible in the mix - yes, you guessed - often P basses. 

Maybe modern amplification has improved that, but I keep coming back to the notion that I would not use one in preference to the basses I have. For the band situations I play in, the P bass would not work as well - many players who I liked, say in the 70s, refined their sound by moving from a P bass to say, a Wal. It’s as difficult for me to accept the notion of going backwards in that sense as accepting some people’s wholly misguided notion that music ended at the end of the 60s.

I guess there’s time yet and I might buy a P bass - who knows. It will probably wear TI flats!!! I’m thinking I would play one with that thumpy R and B style which Pino uses. However I still prefer 70s and 60s soul with note definition. 

I find some of the comments in this thread slightly amusing - I have problems accepting the number of sub and sub sub genres dreamt up these days (take metal as an example) but the look of a bass guitar being genre specific? Really!!!! 😂😂  I’m happy to play my basses in any genre within reason (and as I’m the bass player - why would people even notice - we are often perceived as the boring instrument). 

 

5 minutes ago, oldslapper said:

I don’t actually think Mr Dart is a loser. It was supposed to be a joke, an observation on passive v active, etc blah blah blah.

But I guess if you have to explain a joke, then it’s clearly not funny. 
Gordon Bennett..! 

👍

4 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

Ta. Yep found a Stingray neck and had to get a home for it. Finding Musicman parts is tricky and a bit costly… 

The bass looks great - is it an East 2 band EQ? Yeah MM parts (other than smaller items) are quite hard to find. 
 

On 17/05/2021 at 19:01, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

I had this black and gold Limited Edition Stingray at one point. It was a lovely bass and a good gold combination IMHO, but it was like having a boat anchor hanging around your shoulders 😬.

You’re showing your age, mate!! 😂 how many of us never gave a thought about the weight of a bass (until over the age of 50 ish!!) 😏😀

1 hour ago, tegs07 said:

His signature bass did inspire me to make a Bitsa. I don’t know much about him as a player though. I did weaken in the end though and went active with a John East EQ so more of a Ray/G&L combo. 
 

Has anyone tried a Joe Dart. I like the idea of a single control?

This looks very like a better version of the Carlos Robelli bass Joe played occasionally - true bitsa then - Musicman neck, G and L bridge? 

I haven’t tried a Joe Dart bass but they are now available to order direct from the Musicman vault (internationally) - I have been tempted but frankly if the short scale control-less version was made available I would hit the order button immediately!! 

1 hour ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

The one that was listed on eBay just sold for £1,900 🤷‍♂️

Not far short of the new price then 😬

9 minutes ago, Jean-Luc Pickguard said:

Surely the video was tongue in cheek and not meant to be taken seriously? That said, Vulf are better skilled as musicians than comedians.

Yeah absolutely - I also prefer active basses - indeed can nail his tone on other variants of Musicman bass, but so what - I can nail Jaco’s as well - but Vulf’s whole approach, I find quite fun and anarchic, yet they are also great musicians as well. In fact Joe Dart, far from being a loser demonstrates a level of musicianship not seen these days (since a lot of recorded bass is keyboard, or in a lot of cases passive bass going by various stages, in the direction of inaudible). 

It’s notable that Messrs Dart and Stratton so focus opinion that every thread on either Basschat or Talkbass on these signature basses has a massive response. Must be good for business for them. It’s even mentioned in comments on the Joe Dart Jr video that a number of Talkbass members have been shouting at clouds about it 😂

Must be a facet of bass fora!!! 
 

5 hours ago, fretmeister said:

He uses so much compression he wouldn't notice.

And a mid heavy sound with what sounds/looks like strident plucking of the strings. 

On 17/05/2021 at 12:11, FDC484950 said:

To be honest there wasn’t a massive difference between my Sterling and the Stingray Special I briefly owned. Each of the 5 pickup positions were similar, just that the Sterling has a slightly more aggressive low mid punch. The one thing it doesn’t quite get is the classic Stingray sound. It’s very close, and I’m a track or live you wouldn’t hear a difference, but solo’ed I can hear it. 
Now @drTStingray a Big Al would do very nicely as a second MM, but a 5 SSS seems are rare as rocking horse poo

Yeah Big Als are rare beasties - not many many made - sound great from what I’ve heard though (early production have alder bodies, replaced by mahogany later). 

TBH my SR4HH gets a good Classic Ray tone (the Bernard Edwards version) amongst others - the SR5 ceramic bridge H (parallel) also but as you say, it has a certain bite to it - unmistakably Stingray though - i make both of those comments based on hearing them in band settings and from You Tube videos. 

1 hour ago, SteveXFR said:

Someone suggested to me getting a SUB ray 5 and fitting a Darkglass tone capsule. It seems like an interesting idea. 

Any thoughts on this?

I understand they have ceramic pick ups (if you mean the SBMM one). Can’t comment on the ‘upgrade’ - think they’re pretty good straight out of the box with the stock EQ - I’ve yet to try anything Darkglass, having been curious about their amps - I’ve relaxed and back to Markbass for gigs (what few there are) and ABM for ‘bedroom/home’ use.

Now I know you shouldn’t believe everything - or should that be anything - you read on the internet (only today I read that a type of bass of which i have three and have no problems playing any genre on - indeed are a bit of an industry standard in their field and have been around for 34 yrs, apparently have a serious design fault causing the complainants to push strings off the edge of the fretboard - now either I’m a technique wizard (which I’m not) their technique is fundamentally flawed, possibly agricultural, or they’re overstating something for reasons only known to themselves) - BUT...... Darkglass are said to be the darling of the metal scene - this may be as untrue as the example given above, but as I associate metal with heavily scooped sounds and bass guitar disappearing amidst an onslaught of crunch guitar, perpetual drum solos and the equivalent of someone apparently attempting to prolapse their throat in a singing style as stereotypical as Vic Reeves’ erstwhile ‘singing in the club style’ - meaning 70s social club crooning - my curiosity has sort of waned a little. 

With apologies to metal fans and musicians everywhere and particularly Darkglass, who may have been internet/forum flamed by ‘Fender or other actors’ (in the way ‘foreign actors’ are sometimes blamed for IT hacking)!! 😂

I nominate this - more lavender than purple. Top rate in my view 😎

6 hours ago, acidbass said:

At least those are consistently not over the pole pieces and therefore consistent in tone across all strings - not haphazard like most 'rays. The G always sounds good in demo videos but try a 'ray in a band context and the G is almost completely redundant without major EQing or extreme pickup balancing. That said, they did address this issue with the Stingray Specials.

By your logic, my bass would require more volume and/or EQ than a standard Ray, but it does not - the settings I use for this bass are the same as for any of my standard Stingrays - so the point is incorrect. The redesign of the Ray Special bridge (for weight loss reasons) and pick ups (neo and 18 volt) enabled the string alignment to pole pieces to be improved (for aesthetic reasons) - all purposes as described by EBMM (note the new look is most apparent on a bridge pick up on an HH version on the E and A string). People’s EQ choices on active basses, pick up settings on passive ones and amps/FOH are what creates scoop (enhancement of bass and treble frequencies, suppression of mid range frequencies, and thus generic bass guitar audibility in certain settings). 

Having watched the video several times now since it was released, the bass actually sounds excellent to me! I just wish you could actually order one!! 

2 hours ago, Normski said:

Sometime ago I bought an amazing 77 Stingray & it arrived with a fairly new set of really cool sounding flatwound strings. Could anyone please help me by identifying what make & model they are. I was told that they are Ernie Ball Cobalts but I'm really not sure. 
Many thanks 🙏 🤞

Cool bass. 

I have a Stingray fretless fitted with the very cool Ernie Ball Cobalt flatwounds, and the wraps are purple, the ball ends are not colour coded (photo attached). 

I generally use 100-45 EB Hybrid Slinky (pink pack) on my Stingrays - they actually ship with these from the factory so I’ve presumed they think those gauges work best with their basses. Rightly or wrongly, I think they give better string to string balance and avoid the E overpowering the other stings (given the potential to super scoop the sound on a Stingray with the (actually working and quite powerful) EQ) notably the bass and treble controls. 

I even did this with my SR5, using a 125 B through 40 as well. It sounds great to me with those. 

Ive tried heavier gauge and lighter gauge on them as well. The light gauge were particularly good for the mid 80s bass and slap sounds.

Hearing @Stub Mandrel talking about string bends, has anyone ever noticed the fabulous sound created when bending a low note on a Stingray - I sometimes bend the E or A 3 semi tones. Watch it if you’re recording - it’s very fat and loud!!! 😀

10 minutes ago, acidbass said:

Disappointed that EBMM have dropped the ball again with the pickup alignment on this. The G string looks way off. They had sorted this too on the Stingray Specials etc. Hope Joe Dart doesn't mind a bit of weak G in the Vulf stuff!

I think it’s probably a trick of the camera angle but as there’s a video, judge for yourself - sounded fine to me (actually excellent)!!

I was worried this would have a weak every string - but it’s absolutely fine!!! In fact wonderful 👍😬

I like it (or whatever electronic gizmo it is) on this song by Rita Ora - comes in after about a minute - in that section her voice fluctuates between normal and basso profundo electronically - nice synth bass in that bit as well - doesn’t seem to want to embed unfortunately 

https://youtu.be/ksdAs4LBRq8