drTStingray

Thanks for the correction - I’m not versed in the intricacies of registration in the US - and no, no one would choose that awful Sire copy headstock over the elegant, correct one, even if it was cheap as chips. However I do find your attitude that companies should openly go after protected designs and items - sounds like you might be keen to promote industrial piracy, not entirely sure why. I mean, why not go the whole hog and call the Sire monstrosity a MusicMan Stingray bass - of course those are also trademarks. You probably don’t know this but EBMM often pursue Far Eastern based purveyors of rubbish copies (I mean the real bad ones). It’s cropped up numerous times on the internet. So it’s not surprising they pursued Sire over this. I see you’ve quoted Sterling Ball from 2010……. a time when he was CEO and appearing on forums - a lot has happened in the ensuing 15 years and it is not him who runs most elements of the company these days - indeed this would be a matter for their lawyers. Just because Fender and Gibson couldn’t be asked to go after copies doesn’t mean other guitar makers shouldn’t - in fact most do. Funny the way some people on Basschat fixate on CEOs like this…. it’s many years ago that the likes of those at EBMM and Rickenbacker appeared on a daily basis on forums - I see the same with people quoting prices of used equipment 25-30 yrs ago expecting to pay the same now - I think it’s summed up in the title of the famous and first successful Jethro Tull single 😀

Indeed it would - and they all actually look slightly different in colour……. so what about the Sabre?!! I’ve noticed Tony Levin’s SR5 has the black switch head, knobs, pick up cover and pg screws like yours - your other SR5 has the standard production arrangement with a white pickguard.

The 3+1 headstock arrangement is a patented design - it’s nothing to do with any individuals - it was a simple case of infringement of patent and a company producing a blatant copy without bothering to research properly which parts were protected or not!!

The colour of Tony Levin’s Stingray 5 is peach, and only offered as a custom colour for around a year - 1989/90 - orange in some lights and an orangey pink in others (hence Barbie flesh monica!). Ultra rare to find a Musicman bass in this colour - never reissued except on an OLP signature instrument many years back.

As far as Stingrays are concerned the original 4 strings were wired in parallel. However Stingray 5s (single H) were wired in series, but with a parallel/single coil/series switch - bearing in mind they started with alnico, moved to ceramic (1992 ish-2008) and then back to alnico. The passive Stingray available these days (short scale) has the same system you describe, with a rotary switch for series, parallel, single coil and a tone control - the pick up is neodymium however. I have a long scale (Tim Commerford signature version) - the series is a fatter sound, the parallel a little more scooped and the single coil is a bit like a Jazz with the bridge pick up soloed. You can probably find a wiring diagram on the EBMM site.

When they first announced the Classic Stingrays in 2009 (Bass Player Live) there were a couple of pre production ones in shell pink (if you search on that you’ll find pics). Those basses were sold to the public and I think they subsequently did one or two more for displays at guitar shows, and those were also sold. Talkbass member Mikeswals posted a picture of the one he owns on a Talkbass thread a few days back. The colour never made it to normal production however!

Yes - but I’d be quite wary - also those chunks of mahogany are formidable if any lunatic drunkard gets too close!! However it’s not that far removed from errant singers and particularly drummers who have a tendency to leave protruding bits of metalwork in stupid places!!! In my experience, guitars are almost always knocked over by singers moving around to start fiddling with PA settings……. no matter what the standard of the audience!!

You need to read what I said - that it is a different company (Praxis Musical Instruments, I understand). I didn’t say there was no relationship between the two - obviously there is because the designs are similar. The SBMM instruments are built under licence from EBMM, to their designs, and manufactured in the Far East. The idea the EBMM factory is going to be clogged up manufacturing these budget Joe Dart basses (as suggested in an earlier post) is totally wrong. SBMM is somewhat different from OLP as it manufactures different levels (with different pricing bands) of instruments - OLP were budget instruments (and with quite a good reputation).

I used to think, one really good high end bass is all that was needed - indeed most people in the 70s only had one (even famous players). I replaced cheaper ‘copy’ type basses with one good bass and thought that was it. I still had that philosophy about 20 yrs ago when I bought a new Stingray 5 - but a few years later I convinced myself I wanted a four string and Musicman kindly obliged by offering a colour I really liked (blue dawn), and two pick ups in a four string…… at the time I couldn’t understand why some people had so many high end basses. 20 yrs later I’ve got 14 basses (all Musicman and mostly Stingrays) - some are fretless, some fretted, some 4 string, some 5 string. They’ve all been gigged (even the Bongos!!). I’m currently using a passive long scale Ray in various ska type settings - it works extremely well - only concern is it’s a very limited edition so as one or two others have commented, it stays in its gig bag unless being played!! I know various people with huge numbers of guitars - and at least one with tens of low end instruments. At the other end of the scale I know someone with one of every famous brand - including Wal, Alembic, Fodera, Musicman, Fender etc etc. I guess it’s whatever floats your boat. I’ve never considered buying an HB (or other Musicman copy) as I haven’t had the need - I’m sure I would if I’d been starting out now - but would also have wanted a full fat one until I’d got it. I get tempted by old Fenders from time to time (often 70s natural ones as well) and other stuff but never pull the trigger (well not yet anyway)!! As per the Schecter comment above, the Fenders never play as well (for me) so maybe that’s why I get tempted - and then don’t buy them!! My first ‘decent’ bass at the end of the 70s was a Stingray (a few years before it’d have been a Precision but that didn’t do the same job and didn’t feel as good to play by the late 70s).

Indeed and I’m sure you’re right. However some people, from their posts, seem to think it’s the same company!! Linked but not the same 👍

EBMM don’t make the Sterling by Musicman instruments - it’s a completely different company and the SBMM instruments are made in the far East - that’s why the price is that much lower than an EBMM, California built instrument - those are on a par with (but actually cheaper than) Fender Custom Shop (team built) instruments 😉

You’re right - cases were often not included at that time.

Most of my contemporaries (musicians generally eg keyboard players, guitarists) bought what they wanted on finance. However I got bought something slightly different (instrument wise) for a landmark birthday - and no one had more than one instrument - by the time I was looking to buy a quality instrument a few years later it was a Stingray (at £375 with no hard case - I’d already got one so didn’t bother and in any case I’d only just about got the money for the Stingray). I would confess to having played several natural/maple Precisions in the last few years - have not succumbed although got quite close with one. The other interesting point is that in 1973 I could have probably picked up a custom colour Precision for less than the price of the new one - I would have been as likely to do that as buy a Shadows record at that time (both considered equally past it and an anachronism at the time!!!!) I would confess to having been more tempted by both in recent years 🤣😀

In 1973 a brand new Fender Precision in natural ash with a maple board was £252 (I know - I lusted over it!!!). It was more than a quarter of my annual salary. If I was now on 40 hrs a week (under 21 yrs old) at minimum wage (£8-60 per hour), I would be earning £16,512 per annum - so on that basis an 18 yr old me could afford a £4,100 bass guitar - thus team built Fender CS (or the far superior Musicman, which would be even less). Bah - the youngsters of today don’t know they’re born lol!!! And before a series of excruciatingly stupid political decisions, following which the exchange rate crashed (thanks Nigel et al) you’d have got these basses for an even smaller proportion of your salary (although the Musicman would have not been as good as offered these days - they’ve upped their product in line with price increases - the Fender’s still the same, just pricier). And please don’t use those CPI calculators - as everyone (should) know, they only work on certain average products and most certainly not luxury goods (high quality musical instruments fit into that category). Just try putting the price at say 1996 of a two bedroomed terraced house in the south and see what the calculator claims it’s worth, based on inflation and then compare with reality…….. in the immortal words of Fleetwood Mac “you might not get the answer that you wanted to” 😀 (Post script - CPI doesn’t include housing costs I think - do the same with RPI - similar outcome I think!!)

There could be various reasons. Room could resonate on G - I once played several times in a room which reverberated horribly on A - as many songs were in A this was very problematic. I would try playing G at fret 5 D string - also is it possible you have the bass boosted on the bass or amp (I find the pre sets on Fender Rumbles can be problematic - in fact I’ve only used them in jam sessions - and found they can be very scooped (bass and treble boosted, mids cut). This could affect this. The G may sound louder dependent on what other band members are doing at that point (eg low notes on a keyboard, low bar chord on guitar; even the EQ ing of those instruments could affect this). It may be worth you trying the Stingray with the amp and soloed - play notes up the E or A strings and see if they become boomier the higher you go - if so it’s possible the pick up is set too high - check against factory settings.

In 1973 a brand new Fender Precision in natural ash with a maple board was £252 (I know - I lusted over it!!!). It was more than a quarter of my annual salary. If I was now on 40 hrs a week (under 21 yrs old) at minimum wage (£8-60 per hour), I would be earning £16,512 per annum - so on that basis an 18 yr old me could afford a £4,100 bass guitar - thus team built Fender CS (or the far superior Musicman, which would be even less). Bah - the youngsters of today don’t know they’re born lol!!! And before a series of excruciatingly stupid political decisions, following which the exchange rate crashed (thanks Nigel et al) you’d have got these basses for an even smaller proportion of your salary (although the Musicman would have not been as good as offered these days - they’ve upped their product in line with price increases - the Fender’s still the same, just pricier). And please don’t use those CPI calculators - as everyone (should) know, they only work on certain average products and most certainly not luxury goods (high quality musical instruments fit into that category). Just try putting the price at say 1996 of a two bedroomed terraced house in the south and see what the calculator claims it’s worth, based on inflation and then compare with reality…….. in the immortal words of Fleetwood Mac “you might not get the answer that you wanted to” 😀 (Post script - CPI doesn’t include housing costs I think - do the same with RPI - similar outcome I think!!)

But in my experience only occasionally, and always from bass players, who represent a part of the small percentage of those who frequent bass fora 😀 and an even smaller proportion of bass players overall - so almost never. You’ll find the pointy headstock an excellent implement if/when you encounter such people (in my experience they usually are wielding some form of P bass in sunburst and rarely get further than 8th notes (if that) on open strings 😵‍💫) Anyway, back to reality - the Bongo 5HH is an extremely versatile instrument - and as with any active bass, you can get towards a more vintage tone (if that’s what you want sometimes) by plucking the strings over the neck joint. My experience with gigging Bongos has been people asking what sort of bass it is and how refreshing to see and hear a bass that’s not a boring thing hiding in the corner and barely audible. I would concur that the P Special in P/H form doesn’t sound like a Musicman humbucker - I also tried one at one stage but ended up buying a Stingray 5 after trying loads of different 5 strings (the couple of Bongos came later). They're great to play, have rock solid construction, great overall quality and are highly versatile.

I just noticed this pop up - 2018 Stingray Special on Descending https://youtu.be/L7DEIgDl-8Q?si=H4gIvgb2CnM2p-64

The HH (and discontinued HS) basses are 4 band EQ - the rarer H version is 3 band (note the John Myung signature is quite different). That is a very good price and a nice colour. As previously stated, you could easily get your money back and more possibly. Bongos are very versatile basses and can do quite traditional bass sounds (in the right hands with the right technique) and very modern sounds - they’re very versatile and quite the looker, in a live setting. In terms of playability the neck is very similar in feel to a Stingray 5 but with 24 frets. Very nice bass.

Alan Spenner’s sound on Roxymusic albums (eg Avalon) is a classic Wal sound - makes use of the Q control (see also the Scotts Bass Lessons feature on them and on Flea - they also conclude the Q control gets that unique sound). Otherwise, to me, they sound very Stingrayish (dual pick up version) or Sabre-like - perhaps a little more powerful. Re @Misdee query regarding Alan Spenner’s Wal, I saw him playing a gig at the beginning of the 80s with the Kokomo line up - during the gig he played a couple of solos one of which was slapped - I would say, from the sound, he was using roundwound strings. Also they covered a couple of Rose Royce songs and he got that Alembic type of sound famous on those later songs. From the mid 70s few people in the U.K. were interested in a flatwound bass sound (I don’t even remember them being readily available in shops) although its almost certain Bernard Edwards’ Stingray had the GHS flats which these shipped with until 1978 production (went to GHS rounds). His bass was/is a 77.

I haven’t seen Alan Spenner or Percy Jones mentioned but they got/get a specific sound and were probably amongst the most prominent of players of Wals. Alan Spenner can be heard on many Roximusic tracks but the Wal sound appears on the late 70s ones such as Avalon and Jealous Guy. Percy Jones is on the Brand X stuff and got a very distinctive sound. I was lucky enough to see both of them live in the late 70s/early 80s and they sounded excellent. I followed Alan Spenner’s career from the late 60s - he was a Precision player until getting the Wal in the mid 70s. Whilst he sounded good on a Precision the Wal made his playing really come to life as you could actually hear the detail of his playing. Leo Lyons also used one on a mid 80s live performance with one of the several reformed versions of Ten Years After - this one with the original line up - same effect - you could hear the detail of his playing and it was a fuller sound compared with his customary Jazz. Stingrays get reasonably close to Wals in the right hands but the Wal really scores with the ‘Q’ control - in fact the Scott’s Bass Lessons feature on them discusses this - it is the stand out difference between a Wal and anything else and also features on those Alan Spenner tracks (PS is it just me or is Scott appearing with basses which are more and more wrecked looking - they all appear to need a decent repaint in my view - just look decidedly tatty and old fashioned 😀😉) I would still like a Wal (I prefer the detailed and full sound rather than the current fad for bass sounds where much is inaudible or even worse, plodding in the background). However some of the prices are eye watering - we have the sh*te exchange rate to blame for that, as it’s quite attractive for Americans to buy them - silly political choices eh……..

V nice - the Bongo looks great in very bold colours - I never understood why they didn’t offer HD yellow on it (was one of a range of Stingray Special launch colours in 2018). The maple fretboard on a Bongo isn’t quite a first - I’ve got one (one of 67 limited edition from 2019!!) although it’s a flamed maple fretboard. 😀

The Stingray 5 Specials are normally in the 8lb ish range. My Cruz teal 5 HH is 8 lbs. My 2019 crescendo (very white) Bongo 5HH is under 8 lbs so I think you’d stand a good chance. Re the string spacing etc, I guess it’s part of the design to have 5 strings on a fretboard of that width - I have five Musicman five strings, have gigged all of them (some very regularly) and have really only seldom pulled the G string over the side of the frets - and only at home practicing (noodling). I guess it’s something you get used to and is offset by the ability to play easily and quickly across the neck. One of the reasons I bought my original SR5, having tried a range of different makes was the slickness of the neck and the ability to play a five string but with relatively small hands. I have to say, I found some makes to have less manageable wide fretboards. None of the others got the sound I was after!!

I’d imagine £3k plus. I paid for just under £3k for both my BFR Bongo and Tim Commerford long scale passive Stingray. When you consider that a Pino Signature team built Fender Custom Shop Precision is £4.5 k, this seems reasonable - a standard Musicman is on a par with these - picking special options is somewhat better - all the necks are hand finished in terms of shape and finish and the bodies, and the woods are picked for character if they’re going to form part of a figured neck or transparent body finish. Last time I looked, people were asking £9k for a nice used Wal so £3-4 k for a specially selected fretless, for instance sounds ok to me. I can imagine getting something like a fretless HH in a smart colour - however I do already have too many basses lol 🤣🤣 where the hell does one store all the cases!!!! And I don’t have any of those ones with huge cases like Alembics!!! Great news for lefties as well 👍

As it says in the title - page to the bottom for the new custom design selection service - includes fretless, SLO neck profile, left handed, 30 unique colours - to be available via the on line shop (The Vault) https://blog.music-man.com/instruments/ernie-ball-music-man-new-at-namm-2024/