drTStingray

33 minutes ago, Kev said:

What’s low supply, the number of basses from EBBM (due to covid etc) or the materials used? 
 

Either way, all mass produced bass builders will have the same issue, so if we don’t see huge price increases across the board, I’d be quite interested to know what unique issue ebbm is facing that can justify this.  And, all the while, keeping US prices reasonable.

Two years ago members of TB were up in arms because of what they perceived massive price hikes for standard instruments in the US - issues caused by various factors but CA specific legislation requirements being one. EBMM was one of the first to mention the swamp ash shortage - long before Fender swapped their ash production over - presumably it takes longer to redirect the great oil tanker that is FMIC - maybe they keep a lot more stock as well.

I suspect the factory output is reduced owing to social distancing and incoming supplies may be affected/ interrupted - as have been many industries here (eg car manufacture - though some of that has been caused by the B word!!) 

Anyway some more real world (UK) EBMM prices:-

August 2014 Classic Sabre Neptune blue PDN (you're unlikely to see another!!) - £2233 new

Oct 2016 old smoothie 40th anniversary Stingray - £2100 new

June 2010 Classic Stingray (one of the first ordered in the uk - Feb 2010) - £1650 new

Absolutely. Will be v interesting to see Thomann pricing I guess. 

5 minutes ago, Eldon Tyrell said:

In fairness to Andertons, another retailer also quoted me £2,899 for the new 4HH Raspberry Burst, so it is not only Andertons.

I am sure there are Covid related supply issues, however, how come they keep the price increase in the US pretty low ($100-200) and increase it here by £750-1000? 

So that's £600 uplift in 2 and a 1/2 yrs (my aqua sparkle of Sept 2018 is on a par spec etc)? I really don't know the answer to the question - I do know there was a big hike in the US a year or two back which caused outrage on TB initially - I do know I looked into buying a new car recently - the equivalent of mine, bought just under 2 yrs ago would cost me £41k - mine cost £34k. That's 20% in 18 months or so..... 

@Ian McFly you may find this is a combination of increases - without wishing to 'dis' Andertons because they've been very helpful to me in the past, but they do noticeably mark up Musicman basses (say compared with other retailers), a recent example being the champagne sparkle BFR Stingray Special HH - available elsewhere for a good £200 less. But they have provided a much better service than one or two well known names who will remain nameless here. I guess it's a factor of - in normal circumstances - being able to go to a shop and try a multitude of basses ( they had about 20 Stingray Speciaks when I got mine). I suspect they build in their loyalty points scheme to the prices as well. 

I was one of the first 'customers' (as opposed to dealer stock) to order Stingray Specials in 2018 (April) via Andertons - the price of the 4HH Aqua sparkle was £2299 and the correct price of the Cruz teal 5HH was £2499 (I got a reduction but had to wait 7 months for it to arrive). 

Those prices were two years ago. So I would call £3000 a 20% rise (10% per annum) against the 5 string. Nonetheless still very expensive. 

My understanding (from informed sources on TB and EBMM on their forum) is the factory has had to reduce production for Covid reasons. They also sell more guitars than basses these days so make of that as you will in terms of relative production levels. 

I doubt I'll be buying one of these currently - indeed anything bass wise!!! I'm still enjoying playing the ones I already have. I do like the latest colour offerings though - except the prices!! 

9 minutes ago, Kev said:

 

....... the fact that Ernie Ball are selling instruments approaching that price bracket is just, well, entirely bonkers.  They’re mass produced!!!

This has to be fact checked as it's wrong. The level of human input is on a par with a Fender team built Custom Shop (though arguably the EBMM result is a far better instrument). 

I don't understand why people are comparing prices of new instruments 20+ yrs ago!! 😂 

The two side by side instruments being shown are also somewhat of a misnomer - one is a pre Brexit instrument in a standard solid colour at a reduced price (January sale?). The other is a brand new post Brexit one is a sparkle colour (Mark up price) with a matching headstock (another price mark up). 

Come on guys, yes they're expensive but this is GCSE O level fail analysis and comparison!!! 

3 minutes ago, Musicman20 said:

Not sure... PRS SEs and Fenders on the guitar side haven't increased as much for 2021...

US made ones though? Guess we'll have to wait and see. 

I really like the blue and the frost green colours - they're the cheapest but still too much - even more so the Orange Burst Bongo - goodness knows what the price of a 5 HH Bongo will be (or SR5HH for that matter 😯)

59 minutes ago, AndyTravis said:

Yeah, stupid idea. Piezo sounded crap.

The one in my fretted Bongo 5HH sounds great - anyway your £1500 must have been early 2000s? 

I also think these new prices are bonkers but think it's likely it's caused by leaving the EU and any trade deal there was with the US. 

The champagne sparkle Stingray on Andertons is a BFR model which attracts a mark up - from last year - but is around the same price as one of the new sparkle models (the colour will also attract a mark up from base price) - my guess is there is around 20% or more added. 

Is this just the start of another all round hike in instrument prices from the US following Brexit actually happening? 

Thanks Nige 😏

Amazing - I've never seen that before.

His Stingray is a 79 which he bought in Mannys (New York). It appears on most of his work in that era - indeed he still uses it with some of the projects he works on.

As stated the board has been dealt with numerous times. I wonder whether this was an instance when the board was being fixed and he put a separate neck on - who knows but it's very interesting. 

He also had at least one additional back up Stingray fretless bass, one of which was fairly recently re-sold. 

I'm pretty sure my 2003 Sub 5 is parallel. I asked EBMM about these basses and they said they were all issued as parallel, and indeed that's also quoted on Musicmanbass.global also. I'm not sure about the US Sterlimg Sub but that didn't appear till 2004 - the Classic Sterling certainly had a 3 band EQ and series wiring. Maybe people modified these basses? Or maybe some got out with SR5 wiring. The SR5 is actually quite diffetent as it has a phantom coil for use in single coil mode. 

My guess is the sound derives from a combination of the body  wood (poplar) and the fact they have rosewood boards (unless fretless) and the 2 band preamp.

I have an SR5 which has a series setting, which does not produce the classic Stingray sound in that setting (when set in parallel it does). 

The 3 band preamp has two key differences - the mid range control (you need to cut it significantly to achieve the 2 band sound), and the bass control has a filter which cuts some of the boomier frequencies - so the 2 band has more apparent 'bass'. However as @ped says, running the 2 band with the controls set around the centre of travel gives a more balanced sound - I tend to use mine with the bass up towards full and the treble backed off towards centre then adjust occasionally if I need more mids for a specific song. The original manuals advised not using full volume as well - I must admit I've not really experimented with that and tend to play with the volume up - must check out the difference at stage volume if we ever gig again 😕

7 hours ago, ambient said:

I believe from what I’ve read elsewhere, that you need to apply to each country that you’re visiting. It wouldn’t solve the carnet issue, neither would it solve the VAT issue - payable upfront on entry to each country on merchandise.

Indeed - and each border you go through with the carnets could involve you proving you're not carrying any 'additional' undisclosed goods (ie smuggling). The problem for general goods is it slows everything down in the supply chain, increases costs which inevitably fall on the consumer and in some cases (eg Northern Ireland) creates supply problems as companies decide it's not worth bothering - I suspect there will be other fall out which will come to light. 

7 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

One thing to be mindful of if touring in the EU, don’t take sandwiches as in the news today EU border controls are confiscating them from lorry drivers. 

 

Yes you're not allowed to export (or import) a whole rake of food stuffs without licence etc and that includes sandwich ingredients such as cheese or meat. So they'll be confiscated if the Authorities have got time to or view it as important. 

I also think the financial services migration would be a gradual thing - frankly if it costs significantly more to operate from GB, then it will fail to be competitive and gradually lose its position so firms would either lose money or move to maximise their financial effectiveness.  

As a Kent resident this is like turning the clock back 30 yrs - I'm firmly of the belief that those responsible for selling the populace daft ideas and claiming all the downsides were fake or project fear should be immortalised - the two brand new 1200 vehicle lorry customs clearance centres being built under 'Brexit' powers on green field sites near residential areas in Kent (so no planning process or appeals even if it's right in front of your house currently overlooking fields 😏) really should be named the N Farage Memorial xyz facility.  

Still we can bask in the new found ability wave our UK flags and sing Rule Brittania without fear of contradiction these days as a proud and independent nation - oh wait - we did that before surely 😂

7 hours ago, horrorshowbass said:

One of these has come up locally, bit pricey but bit nicely.

https://www.beatitmusic.ie/product/musicman-sub-usa-2003/

What's the neck like?

Closer to a P or a J?

Thanks

The neck width is closer to a P than a J but they are very comfortable as the profile is relatively shallow and the same as a standard Stingray (one of the key reasons I bought a Ray instead of a P in the 70s was for me, the far more comfortable neck - plus the sound of course!!).

The US Sub is in all but finishes, a 2 band full fat Stingray with the same sound. The neck is painted (like a far more expensive Musicman Bongo - interestingly that model started manufacture around the same time) and with a rosewood board.

Some people, me included, like the quirkiness of the US Sub, as a separate model giving the right sound, and thus don't mind the 'industrial' nature of the textured finish and checker plate looking pickguard - nice contrast to the deluxe nature of the full fat model if you have one. If you don't, a nice way to get the Stingray playability, rock solid build, and broad, iconic sound palette. 

Prices vary but bearing in mind a bog standard US Stingray (pre Special) will probably cost £1000, more (sometimes much more) for anything unusual, rare, or one of the more recent Stingray Specials, then a US Sub may cost £600 - it depends how urgently people want to sell. It's also worth checking the serial number on the EBMM site (or even that the bass has a serial number - they are on a sticker on the neck). 

I definitely don't need (another) 5 string - I've already got four of them 👍

However ive also got 4 string basses - in fact far more of them than 5s.

My experience of 5s is they're great (well mine are) - if you don't have one it's worth investing in one and it's quite reasonable to use one as a main bass - I certainly did for years 😀

20 hours ago, leroydiamond said:

I was laughing as soon as I saw the letters  PMT 

Yes - a retailer who wants to offend the female population just by the acronym/ name being coincident with the much more commonly known acronym for a female only (I think?) medical condition - reminds me of that Tory politician/ ex leader who (seemingly accidentally) didn't mind being referred to by initials which sound very like the acronym for Irritable Bowel Syndrome - quite accurate maybe 😂

We have to take the bass player mild joke/slur on the chin - but it would be like advertising part of their store as - gentlemen (because they seemingly haven't considered female musicians exist), for those non-musicians who cannot knock on a door without the knocking speeding up (btw that's how you can tell it's a drummer at your door without seeing them 😏👍😂), step this way - into their drum room/area 😁

10 hours ago, Bart Funk Bass said:

 

His tone is thin in the mix. However, he didn't sound as good anymore as he dumped the StingRay.

He is too low in the mix at the start of that solo - the drums and percussion are far louder! And arguably, the sound is too scooped. 

When I saw them live, circa 1978/79 Louis Johnson played an Alembic Series 1 or 2 - sounded amazing. For an encore just Louis walked on with his bass - played about 10 seconds of groove laden slap and then asked whether the people at the back could hear his bass! Then another 10 seconds of even more intense slap - repeated 2 or 3 times - then played a bass line and the rest if the band appeared and they played one of the hits (maybe Get The Funk Outta My Face) 😀

16 hours ago, acidbass said:

The string alignment on the Specials is much better on the G string.  You'll notice that the string is perfectly centred through the pole pieces of the pickup on the Specials due to a redesigned pickup. 

Correct - especially noticeable on the neck pick up. I seem to remember EBMM stating they'd done this for aesthetic reasons - the pick ups are neodymium rather than alnico 5 so were redesigned along with the more powerful/ revoiced pre amp. 

16 hours ago, acidbass said:

This effectively gets rid of the weak low G syndrome experienced with most Rays since EB took over.

This is very inaccurate:-

1) Pre EB basses are virtually the same as the early EB basses (until the early 90s) - except the string retainer was moved to the A/D instead of D/G; an extra dot on the last fret; improved quality control and consistency (particularly pick up windings); body contouring - thus an improved product. 

2) The weak G string sound is suggested to occur with some single pick up Stingrays - not 2 pick up versions

3) There are a lot of variables which can affect this - there are many owners that don't have that problem - I actually have 8 Stingrays (pre Specials) of varying types (2 band/3 band/ maple /rosewood/fretless - none has a weak G string sound compared to the others or string to string volume variation. In fact the fretless, where arguably you need good G string volume, has substantial mwah, resonance and volume on that string.

Im aware some people experience this problem but it's completely wrong to suggest it's a universal issue. 

Sorry to hear of your back problems as well - the Stingray Specials are significantly lighter than previous models.

I think there are one or two additional sparkle colours - there's a darker, royal blue colour (Aztec blue?) - I'd i hadn't already got two I'd seriously consider that colour. The colour vibrancy changes significantly with light variation on these sparkles - low light levels giving the effect in the photos, bright light causing the sparkle to really pop with a bit of prismatic effect 👍

Mine (the coral red one in the pics above) is fitted with TI flats and is a sublime instrument - it weighed 9.75 lbs on S and T's parcels scale.  They are, of course a slab body, and unlike some other very well known makers who shall remain nameless, Musicman don't create routs under the pickguard which not only lose weight off the bass but prevent removal of the pick guard unless you're happy to have such things on show!! 

My Classic sounds very Bernard Edwards in tone, but it is, of course, largely a combination of a 70s and very early 90s 2 band Stingray. 

On the other hand the Specials (both of mine are HH) do a wider range of tones but can do vintage Stingray as well. They drive my Mark Bass speakers beautifully when you dig in (as I found out at an outdoor gig in September - fabulous sound from the 4HH) - my Specials are much lighter. However you get an 18 volt pre amp and neodimium pole pick ups so completely different from the Classic, but still, absolutely a Stingray. 

I also very much like Juliaplaysgroove's channel - she's developed into a very tasteful player with consummate groove - her Dua Lipa stuff is great and very inventive.

She did a video about 5 yrs ago (thus aged 14) of GCS Hair (Larry Graham) - it actually inspired me to learn it for the first time in 45 yrs or so - seems to be a very accurate version as well unlike other on line and bass educator versions. I've also been watching various people doing Release Yourself from GCS's first album - the bass part has double thumbing...... I suppose I'll have to learn to do it to play that (one of my favourite ever Larry Graham bass parts containing just about every fill other bass players have borrowed including me (a good example is the bass breaks in Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is - Rose Royce) - the double thumbing is a work in progress for me lol!!! But progress is being made....

Bass the world is good as is the Bass Whisperer and also, in reasonable doses, Scott's Bass Lessons - I watched the video covering Tony Levin's work on So the other night, and Scott seems to have a doppelgänger with a US accent - he also played Stingrays on the video which must be a first for SBL!!!! 😂😂

1 hour ago, Old Horse Murphy said:

I never found out the name of the colour so you're probably spot on.

I always hoped it was called something like "smacked derrière red" or "whore red" or "50 year old senior executive after running for a train red"

I think you once told us the stamp was REDFE. But as @rodney72a said, fire engine red was the production colour - resurrected in around 2005 for a limited edition. 

Anyway I think the colour may be a little too red for "smacked derrière" although @Happy Jack may be able to advise as he used to have a smacking derrière for his profile pic until quite recently 😂 But a little to unorange for what's become colloquially known "The DJT flesh tone" 😬

When I took my pre EB to a music shop in Dudley to get then to look at, thinking I'd blown the pre amp up (in reality she who should be obeyed persuaded me to put a cheaper standard battery in rather than a Duracell so she could buy a pack of ciggies and it had failed extremely quickly - v embarrassing!!) the shop actually had a new red one in that colour. 

The first EB production Stingray was/is also in that colour. 

As you say, v nice colour. 

Have you got copies of those catalogues - if so extremely rare 👍

Congratulations on the new job 👍

They're both excellent basses but they're actually quite different from one another but here goes:-

Stingray Classic

Pretty much like a combination of a pre EB Ray and a very early 90s one 

6 bolt neck joint

Original style large bridge with through stringing, large holding down bolts, mute assembly - serial number on bridge 

Slab body almost always ash

Some special colours not available on other models

Original style 2 band EQ  

Highly figured maple neck (birds eye or flame)

80s style headstock logo and neck plate

Chrome plated truss rod adjusting spoke wheel

Weight around 9.5 lbs

Neck radius 7.5" - lacquer finish 

Were available in 4 or 5 string versions

Alnico 5 pick up poles, which follow the contour of the neck - 9 volt electronics

Fretboard either rosewood or maple 

Standard nut

Black or white pick up cover and pg (some pgs in tort) dependent on body colour

Stingray Special

5 bolt neck joint and contoured neck heel

Lightweight aluminium hardware

Small bridge held down by screws (no large holding down bolts)

Originally lightweight swamp ash body - now changed to other woods owing to ash shortage

Revised body contours 

Neodimium pick ups with revised pole piece spacing enable strings to centre over them (most notable on HH neck pick up). Pole pieces flat to pick up cover 

18 volt electronics with revoiced 3 band pre amp

11" radius neck; roasted maple neck; oil and wax finish

Compensated nut

Fretboard in roasted maple, ebony or rosewood dependent on body colour

Black or chrome hardware dependent on body colour

Weight around 8.5 lbs or less

4 or 5 string (original SR5 shape and pg)

Large range of colours

Broader range of sounds; more headroom on pre amp before compression. 

6 hours ago, Old Horse Murphy said:

Well, I had one of these a while ago in Pillar Box Red with a beautiful maple neck. It was stunning and played superbly but weighed about 10 and a half pounds which was too much for me. I loved it though and the sound from the 2eq preamp was just so right. 

Anyway, this one came up a short while ago for a very good price and weighed in at just a shade over 9lbs but even from the photos I could tell it was absolutely filthy. I spoke to the buyer though and negotiated a good price for it and thought I'd take a chance. It arrived yesterday, scarily, by Hermes, so I wasn't entirely sure it would ever arrive. Anyway, it did and after renewing my tetanus shot, I went about taking it apart for a good inspection and a clean. 

It's all-original but the previous owner must have sweated like a horse (think Barry White wearing a Cagoule while doing star jumps in a sauna and you have the right idea). I replaced as many screws as I could as they were rusted through and gave the pickup a good clean with a toothbrush and a bit of WD40 as the pole pieces were black. 

The neck is good and the frets are fine, but the body has take a bit of a bash over the years but it looks like good honest gigging marks to me.

The back however looks like to was played by C3PO with his shirt off. Buckle rash? It looks more like woodworm. Nonetheless, it's going to be played, not displayed. 

I restrung it and then went about intonating  it and setting up the action. It was a nightmare: everything was okay apart from the A string which kept choking out around the 9th fret. I tried everything from adjusting the relief, saddles, adding a shim and even tapped the frets with my wife's crafting hammer but it was no good. It was only then that I noticed the brand new A string from Ernie Ball had dents all the way along it. I replaced it with another string and well, problem solved. 

After all that faff, it plays great and sounds really, really good. I'm very pleased with my afternoon's work.

 

 

 

 

Looks great - as with many EBMM basses from the late 80s/90s a nicely figured neck as well.

Btw I'm pretty sure your previous Stingray was fire engine red (I think the stamp is RED FE or something similar - a colour used when EB first bought Musicman and started to produce Stingray basses. 

1 hour ago, Cuzzie said:

85 with a meter is not bad - you can have a plenty loud enough gig and it generally only cuts the power of its consistently offending.

Sometimes the places with meters that will cut only cut a few power sockets right on the stage, but if you can find out and be sneaky you can send a long lead to a socket outside the cutting zone thereby avoiding it as long as the proprietor doesn’t see.

The drummer problem is very real - quite a lot seem incapable of playing quietly (I remember years ago, I was visiting a mate who is a drummer, and his father came in from a gig - he was an elderly jazz musician and announced 'the gig was awful, drummer appeared to think he was building a shed!!! 😂)!!

I have played a couple of quiet gigs with a loud drummer, with a noise limiter - in sound check he was the only one setting it off - he also, it has to be said, has a 60s Ludwig kit - the kit is loud itself and I recall other musicians commenting on how loud Ludwig kits are. Anyway he solved the problem by obtaining towels and putting them over the drum heads - the sound limiter did not go off in the gig and the drums were a very reasonable volume. You do come across drummers who can play intricately and quietly when required but many seemingly can't. Of course, back in the 80s many drummers got the sack from bands as drum machines were not only capable of a decent sound, the volume was capable of adjustment, there was more room on cramped club stages, and you didn't have to pay the machine!! 

As we've gone through the '60s revival' stuff and to an extent the 70s, I wonder whether, once again history will repeat itself and these, apparently all too frequent absurdly loud drummers will be replaced by drum machines!! However guitarists and bassists were often replaced by keyboards in that same era.......... 😦

2 hours ago, leschirons said:

For what it's worth, here's my two cents worth.

Years ago, I wanted a cheapy fiver to play dodgy venues with so I picked up an OLP Stingray 5 from Basschat well under £100. They're a bit dearer now, maybe £150.

Same narrow string spacing as a real MM as they're licenced MM copies.

Ended up using it on over 200 gigs in preference to my Fenders, Music Man and Status basses. Really comfortable to wear and play. Not the largest tone pallet in the world but certainly sufficient for 90% of gigs. Only sold it 3 weeks ago as I was cutting down on stuff to bring back to the UK. Huge mistake. I'd get another tomorrow if I thought I'd start gigging again and if you can find the Tony Levin model, that's even better.

@leschirons IIRC Tony Levin had a lot of input into the EQ on his signature OLP, so anyone who gets hold of one (they seem quite scarce) and knowing the propensity for the tinkerers and modders to butcher cheap basses, it's worth bearing in mind - they have a Tony Levin spec tweaked EQ 👍