drTStingray

Yeah agreed entirely. Northern soul is another influencer in a different way (that dance craze was quite region specific as well). I get that needing to much better to play some of the stuff as well - trying to do some of Jaco and Stanley's stuff was impossible for me by ear. Bands like AWB and Kokomo had such feel as well - single note bass parts with incredible timing and you needed the right drummer, rythmn guitar and feel for playing together as a unit to get anywhere near it. Anyone else get influenced by James Brown through clubs? I loved Get Up Offa That Thing and learned the bass part from hearing it and seeing/feeling its effect in a club!!

I first heard Bootsy on Flashlight in a club - and on other Parliament stuff which I had to learn as I was fortunate enough to get the bass job in a soul/funk band in the later 70s, which gradually morphed into disco/funk. The main men were Jamaican and had an encyclopaedic knowledge of black music since the 60s - hence covering bands like Fatback and Parliament. If you saw Bootsy with Funkadelic they had up to 40 odd people on stage, with three or four bassists and each song went on for about 30 mins - you couldn't really pick out who was doing what and it was more of an experience than a gig/concert - a bit like a funk version of Zappa!! Except that squelching bass sound ha ha!!

Yep agreed - I also resonate with the local player thing - we had several - one of our best local funk bands actually supported the Stanley Clark Band when they performed for the first time in Brum. Also Jaco with Birdland - I was astonished when I saw him in concert playing the melody on false harmonics. Incredibly, looking back, I came to this through a prog and blues rock background - my group of mates basically diverged from prog - some towards Steely Dan, some AWB, Tom Scott and Marley, Mahivishnu, Return to Forever and Back Door - I think two or three of us got into clubbing in a big way also - myself a bass player, along with a drummer and guitarist - club music changed our playing fundamentally, though we still played Greenslade and Camel covers for a while (with V funky rythmn section) ha ha! The biggest tracks in clubs often didn't become mainstream hits - although some have in recent years having been resurrected by people like Joey Negro and Giles Peterson. The 80s Brit funk scene was very much dance orientated - and indeed dance music has always been far more influential on music than commentators give credit - even to this day. Level 42 got its audience from UK clubbers and the jazz funk fans - I never fail to be amazed the number of women at Level 42 concerts these days - not the sort of demographic you'd expect and surely evidence of their fan base being different from say, Genesis - whose concerts would be frequented by mostly guys often with long hair with beards etc!!

I think so. Certainly from what Ive seen of such things in the UK, and that is a microcosm of the US stuff.

I like the way it looks like a miniature AJ Presentation bass. But without the bulk, if you see what I mean. Good to see Sting following your lead Ped!

Very smart web page. Looks very C and W circuit to me. Shovel Drums is a new one on me - I've heard of the term 'drummer building a shed'. i reckon unless your mind is attuned to that type of country act you possibly wouldn't enjoy it. And it's all upright?

Hey Lowdown, Graham Central Station were one of a number of new acts being pushed in the mid seventies by their record company in the UK (also included - Earth Wind and Fire). Kokomo was a UK band in that also. As far as the mainstream was concerned their music did not figure much and neither did it figure in clubs at the time. EWF took off to become global stars whilst Graham Central Station did not to anywhere near that level. So Larry Graham did not figure to the same level - I was around in the late 70s and although had heard some GCS (and tried to learn it) I'd never even heard Hair until more recent years. In my opinion, Stanley Clark was a bigger influence on bass players than given credit, and particularly his sound. This influenced all of the big acts - listen to Rose Royce or Brothers Johnson, say 1976 and then again 1979 - the bass sound (particularly pop and slap) has changed from a thumpy P bass to a far more focussed Alembic/Musicman sound. Bean9seventy is right about dance music being a catalyst in bass playing - after all that's what disco is/was - for me and many of my peers, T Connection (Do What You Want To Do) was equally if not more influential than, say GCS. This seismic shift in bass sound at that time did result in the Brit Funk players of the early 80s generally following the late 70s bass sound and style rather than the early 70s - using an Alembic type of sound (although you never a UK player playing one because they were largely unobtanium and fearsomely expensive). Musicman, Ibanez Musician and Aria were the basses of choice (with MK using Jaydee - which sounded very Alembic). This track (released early 76) demonstrates the sound - and some similarities with some of Level 42's work

+1 I had a 5-6 month wait for my Classic Stingray in 2010. I ordered it the day after they were announced and the dealer swapped one of the stock basses on order for mine (coral red) - which would not have figured in the first order by S and T otherwise (mostly black, white and burst). It was well worth the wait so hang in there!! I got a fabulous bad which I won't be selling. I think they are very busy as the guitar side has really taken off. I'm waiting to order one of the new Stingrays but haven't been able to yet.

I'll be interested to hear how you get on with these on the Ray.

Interesting - I would agree they sound fat on a Stingray (as do flats generally) - I tend to compensate with the EQ setting. To be fair the Reflex and 25th Anniversary are very different basses from the Stingray, with their Bongo inspired 4 band EQ and multi mode (active/passive/series/parallel). Did you try it in passive with the TIs? Ive heard people rave about using flats on both MM Bongos and especially the passive Cutlass/Caprice basses. I guess as with everything, our ears are differently tuned and one person's utopia can be another's anathema.

The various EB groups refer I think to the tension. Group 3 is on a par probably with TIs and Cobalts and certainly roundwounds. Ive never used chromes so am not familiar with how close they are to the EB group strings but I think I recall some reference to them being very similar. Best of luck with this - flats can be a bit of a lottery as they're all so different and none of them are particularly cheap.

I have always liked that picture but it always struck me as a bit of an odd marketing ploy by Fender to advertise it's wares in relation to surfing long after the Beach Boys' surf music heyday and surfing music generally - although it is often perhaps associated with Fender instruments - the ad is late 70s/early 80s I think!! Unfortunately, as discussed many moons ago on this very forum Fender basses can't walk on water - they unfortunately sink. Anyway sorry for the interlude - back on topic 😀

I'm glad you mentioned this one Bean9Seventy. I started bass playing well before I got into clubbing - my first experience of this was in the mid 70s and I was mesmerised by the bass lines on lots if not all of the stuff the DJs played - and that T Connection track was played regularly and filled the dance floor. It struck me as a similar type of line that Stanley Clark was playing on his first solo album. There quite a lot of other tracks making a regular appearance - some of them quite obscure - I guess this was the 'dance culture' of the time. I think Boogie Nights started as a track played in clubs - I certainly remember it being played (12" version?) Interesting to hear your views on bass and disco music, particularly as it was the disco dancing which got you into bass. I was already a bass player but was further inspired by the music in clubs in that era. This is one of the first pop and slap parts I ever heard - 1976 - I definitely hear some MK grooves in there after the first guitar breakdown - Love Games for instance

Ive had mixed results playing through provided back line amps in the past - however by far the biggest impediment has been not understanding the controls of an unfamiliar amp - particularly things like pre shape push buttons which if you're not familiar with the amp, and in a dark area can cause problems of ludicrously scooped tone if depressed - as a for instance. Ive used Ashdown in the past (I have an ABM 500 with ABM cabinets which I don't gig currently) and it's true their sound is a combination of hi fi and vintage - but generally pretty good. I've also played through an Electric Blue combo as described which produced a perfectly good sound when set up neutrally, using a Stingray. It was set up anything but neutral before - IIRC at least one tone control on the amp was full on. I think the issue is trying to get a neutral sound when the amp has other gizmos which may be switched on and also when the people providing the amp either haven't a clue how to set such an amp up or use an extreme tone. My worst recent example at an open mike was where the 'house band' shares duties every other month with another - when I attended as a guest on my month off, myself (and several others) used the bass equipment provided by the other band, with our own basses and appeared to produce a bass sound a fraction of the volume of the house bassist - to the extent that every 'guest' bassist complained they couldn't hear themselves and worse still neither could their co-performers who also complained. It seems there was some trickery afoot in the signal - perhaps a boost button or maybe the amp had some gizmo engaged - anyway it was not very satisfactory and just shows the levels of tomfoolery which can occur when using provided equipment.

I have TI flats on a 2 band Classic Stingray and EB Cobalt on my 3 band fretless. Number one reason is the tension - similar to the roundwounds I use, and with the same gauge (usually with a 100 on the E). Secondly the tone of each type is excellent and you can get quite a bright sound with either type if you want. Thirdly neither set have been changed for over 2 years so they last well. I can't be doing with high tension 60s style flatwounds, in fact anything which makes a bass less playable to me is an impediment rather than a facilitator of music In fact just such a set caused me to all but stop playing one of my basses, until I put a set of round wounds on and rediscovered it. These Stingrays do sound good with flatwounds but I'm still not totally convinced as roundwounds have their advantages and with muting can sound just as thumpy - however as a Bernard Edwards fan since 1977, and with the knowledge his Stingray was in the period (to early 78) when they shipped with flats (GHS to be precise) - I sort of like them and flats have proved to be the only way on a Stingray to get his recorded pop sound as per We Are Family I have ever been able to achieve (having played the song since 79, playing it with flats a couple of years ago was a revelation). I still think of flats as a bit of 60s throw back..... although Pino's sound with them also makes me persevere!! I have also used Ernie Ball Group 3 which are also similar tension and are good. I might try some GHS at some point out of curiosity if nothing else.

You have to remember that many grandmothers are in their 50s/60s (I.e date from 1958 or either side thereabouts) - whilst some wear their age nicely with reasonable relicing, some are majorly distressed whilst others are perfectly preserved. However there's a strong line in grandmother facsimiles from much more recent times - in fact to use a 1950s phrase paraphrased, lamb dressed as mutton - then there'd be the even cheaper versions (cuts of mutton) masquerading as 60 yr old grandmothers - these would be the Squiers we are talking of - apparently they sound, operate and perform on a par with the real vintage version so much so that anyone's regular partner, even one with very high operating costs and performance could be replaced by a cheaper facsimile grandmother lookalike according to over 90% of people in quite unrepresentative samples. Spooky that.... 👍😯😂

We had rock music and especially the Beatles but it was underground - but was that left handed violin shaped instrument Paul McCartney played a Squier then? When Elton John came in the 80s his song Nikita had Fretless bass - Musicman? Not a Squier either.

Sorry but I simply don't believe this - are you sure it was the basses? (I'll accept the lack of cloth ears - though I've played with plenty of half deaf guitarists and drummers in my time so I'm not but sure why bassists are exempt - even CLF himself was half deaf i understand). Ah well - when we're all playing Squiers in a few years....... no doubt that's all that'll be left in production or worthy of playing when this viewpoint extends everywhere. Reminds me of the days we all drove Moskovitch and Trabants - because the powers that be thought they were perfectly adequate to get from A to B and everything else was an extravagant, decadent irrelevance - we're just showing off in our unnecessary Audis and Mercedes these days - after all who needs aircon, ABS etc etc - it's all irrelevant 😂😂

Im not being snobbish about Squiers at all - in fact I actually like them and think they're good value (not as good as the latest SBMM Sub though 😀) - but the idea that the differentiators between the tone, playability and sustain of those and a very expensive bass with complex tone woods, construction and electronics, in the hands of a skilled player will simply be lost in a mix frankly suggests those suggesting there isn't either have low standards and expectations or indeed cloth ears!! Or we'd all be using Rickenbackers..... as they'd make no difference either - btw I like them as well

He did something similar but on a Fender Jazz Mark King signature bass. He stopped playing it because it didn't do the Level 42 and Mark King thing. So I'd hazard a guess a Squier wouldn't do any better. Flea had a similar dallying live with a Fender Jazz - soon dropped for something more aggressive. I seem to recall a Mr Entwhistle took a similar route for similar reasons. It would seem that by current reckoning this forum is populated by 93% Fender with flats players - this is very 60s throw back!! But is that because only Fender lovers replied or only a large majority of Fender lovers frequent bass forums. I must admit I don't remember the last time Rickenbackers were referred to in a thread but I regularly see people using them. I couldn't have imagined Chris Squire on a Squier because it wouldn't have made the right sound.

But the difference is he'd thrash you even more comprehensively on a Ducati because it's a lot better at going fast and almost everything else. How well would your Squier take bowing - orchestral music for instance. Or rockabilly upright style? This thread is in general so per se must apply to upright bass as well. I don't think I'd be playing a Squier on Beethoen's 5th!! 'Coffee table' basses aren't bedroom basses - they're mostly used by very experienced players where tone, articulation and nuance required are way beyond the thump along rock or to quote another thread once on this forum - boring plodding. Bass guitar - indeed music - is often about nuances and intricacies - this thread simply proves to me that many bass guitar players on this forum don't either get that or don't play in a style that uses them or needs them - that's fine but don't use that to judge what other people should do - they can take a lot of forms - if you can't hear them (or the guitar does not allow you to play them) then there's no differentiation from one style to the next and the bass guitar becomes no different from one thing to the next. That devalues most of the subtleties which can be used by skilled and inventive players.

I thought the question included without the audience or band members noticing. In most cases for an upright bass (or band based around say a Wal sound - eg a certain era of Roxymusic) this would be yes. For an upright, if it was a jazz gig, it might result in the band getting no more gigs!!!

The presumption that a bog standard Fender P or J, or the Squier version thereof can be used to perform absolutely every style of music is wrong. Take Level 42 - Mark King used a Jazz - indeed had a signature version - for a short while - then stopped apparently very soon after because it didn't allow him to sound like Mark King (and Level 42 like Level 42) on quite a proportion of what he played - thus it was inadequate for the job. The Fender basses and derivatives are fine for a whole range of music - excellent for some - but the idea they may be fine for absolutely everything is really delusional!! If they were none of the other more recent bass types and the styles and sounds of music developed using them would have happened - that is also presumably why Marcus Miller modified his main bass so long ago. Tell most Wal players to play a Fender and you'll probably get a rude answer from most. For some of us, it's like asking us to take a backward step for no good reason - those who drive Ferraris are not going to willingly going to change to a Ford Popular even though both will no doubt get you from A to B. I often wonder if musicians were in charge of the motor industry whether it would have regressed as far back as solid tyres - after all they support a vehicle perfectly adequately.

Although not the first mainstream single to do so, Car Wash by Rose Royce, with its slapped breakdowns and pop and slap octaving along with Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is possibly introduced that style to many mid 70s bass players - I went to an audition (in the UK) for a soul/funk band in the latter 70s and one of the other guys there played a lot of slap bass - and quite intimidating it was!! A lot of UK bass players were influenced by it - I'm pretty sure I heard Alan Spenner using the style in the later 70s also, and Neil Murray in National Health even. Larry Graham in Graham Central Station days also popularised it around that time in a more up front way than in Sly and the Family Stone - it appeared in some of Earth Wind and Fire singles (eg Saturday Night). I saw the Crusaders several times in the 70s but on one occasion and notably they had a bass player called Robert 'Pops' Popwell playing with them and he was a phenomenal slap player - in fact was featured in a solo much as you would see Louis Johnson. That Crusaders track is interesting and does sound a little like Mr Pink by Level 42. I would have though Mark King heard all the music going on around him (including what people in the music shop he worked in played) and like any other developing player would have likely been influenced by it. The Level 42 stuff was really an 80s phenomena and Mark clearly took the style to a new level - the 80s sound (used by lots of other Brit funk bands of that period) was different as well being more scooped and hi fi sounding - more reminiscent of Stanley Clarke.