drTStingray

I voted no - I play active basses in the bands I play in - apparently the bass sound is a particular feature, other people tell me. In fact, the main man in one of the band's complains bitterly about people playing with 'vintage' sound where note pitch is less audible - he prefers a sound where all the notes are clear. Squier Jazz or Precision would provide a different sound which would be noticed - it would be thinner sounding and the slap sound would not be bright enough. Additionally it would be more difficult to get a defined enough sound. I'm not entirely sure of the point of the question particularly as any personal preference is not allowed - musical instrument choice is, for me at least, a significant part of the process of playing music so personal preference (I.e what suits my playing style - be it neck shape, sound, instrument body shape, reliability etc) is fundamental. So as an example, nice as 50s Precisions are, the neck width and shape is such that playing one regularly would be a chore for me as I have relatively small hands - this would likely affect my playing and I would have to modify some of what I play. If push came to shove and I was on a desert island and only a Squier Precision was available then I would definitely play it. But then the same would go for any bass guitar if it was all that was available.

We've been to the Motown musical and thought it was excellent. The band is very good as is the bass playing (bass player uses a Sadowski). Dancing in the Streets was also good - I've played with the guitarist who was in the West End show - all excellent. I always find myself listening to the band and the arrangement as much as watching the show when going to musicals. Thriller is also excellent (great bass player also). We Will Rock You was also great - with the wonderful Neil Murray on bass.

Without a certain level of musicianship you don't have a band (unless it's one of those bands which don't play the music just mime to it, appealingly). Beyond that there are lots of other factors including stage presence, audience connection and also that good old one, the band being better than the sum of its parts - rather like a good sports team - can play and perform well together.

Each scene change is accompanied by a few seconds of slap bass solo. My teenage son at the time told me all his friends (non musicians) thought that was what bass guitar was (not that rumbly, thumpy stuff!!) A bit of a cult late night tv show. Any sequencer line can be challenging on a bass guitar - as can slap bass.

I was speaking figuratively and being ironic! I meant there haven't been any in a couple of weeks - the last big controversy I recall was over some of Quincy Jones' recent Alf Garnett equivalence comments which touched on the Fab 4!! Yeah I generally agree - didn't Wilton Felder play because the booked player failed to show up? One thing is for sure, Carol Kaye, good as she is, was certainly no 60s/70s black R and B bass player - all of those guys played with a feel and authority very few could emulate - it was readily apparent in live performances I went to throughout the 70s - as I became more and more exposed to it through a changing personal musical taste it really changed my approach to playing. Bob B, Alan Spenner and a handful of others could play totally like this - my theory is their bass playing was rooted from the outset in that style or was fundamentally influenced by it. It certainly isn't apparent in, for instance Beach Boys recordings - not that those don't have their own appeal - it is just totally different.

Stratus, Billy Cobham is one which fits into this category. Extremely hard to nail IMHO but only three notes to the A section. This is Tal Walkinfield doing a great job of it

I'm a bit surprised that people would think Jamerson couldn't or wouldn't have played an orchestral bass part - as well as the bass groove work he played on many tracks with full orchestra. I also find it surprising that Motown would have used anyone but Motown players on their tracks until they moved to the West Coast and even then you would wonder why they would move away from a winning formula. All that said, I don't doubt Carol Kaye's ability and absolutely jaw dropping back catalogue. She is great. The track posted is interesting - I don't however hear the pick referred to at points. As for the Beatles - we haven't had a thread for a while to remotely challenge their national treasure status.

Thanks for posting this it's awesome. Power of Love by Martha Reeves and the Vandellas is a great track and really features Jamerson in there playing very 70s style R and B but with all of his normal playing style. His deliberate timing variations are awesome and a very important part of his style. Here is the studio version and - not only is it astonishing how close to the studio version he plays even though it appears at first glance to be improvised to an extent - he is also higher in the mix (cos it ain't the 60s!!). I believe it's largely all in the mind and fingers.

You missed out lots of great bass players - if we're talking early 70s:- John Paul Jones Andy Fraser Leo Lyons* Larry Taylor Greg Lake Paul McCartney (with Wings) * definitely used Marshall - 2 X 100 watt stacks including 4 X 4x12s. Also used Acoustic sometimes. Live bass sound wasn't great at this time and certainly would not get anywhere near a recorded sound - my personal view was Andy Fraser got relatively close although this was with a Gibson and a very R and B style of playing. The whole emphasis moved from valve amps to solid state and Acoustic was a big player - J P Jones used these - this was to do with getting cleaner bass sound at high volumes. At the same time bass playing was moving on and many players required greater clarity of sound reproduction than the hitherto tendency for 'woofy fart' sounds - moving stacks of air but not giving clarity. 18" speakers were pretty common in the 70s also, although my experience with an Acoustic 301 was that it gave quite a clear sound. Had anyone seen or heard of Ampeg in the UK at that time - I don't recall seeing them - I know they famously provided The Stones with equipment on one of their early 70s US tours - I can't remember why though.

Another excellent one for Fretless is I, Assassin - Gary Numan. The track Music for Chameleons has a great in your face Fretless line - if you can get past the idea of Alan Partridge being discovered in his leather underpants playing air bass to it.....!! Very difficult if you've seen that episode!!

I was always totally transfixed by Jaco's tone - until I saw Weather Report live. It struck me that the recorded sound was possibly through some sort of preamp in the studio (as indeed were classic mid 70s fretted performances like Nate Watts on I Wish and Sir Duke). Whilst a Fender Jazz Fretless sounds good through a modern amp and cabinet, I have always thought a Stingray Fretless gives that extra oomph and presence that makes for a phenomenal sound. However Pino, for me, is one of the best bass players and also one of the best Fretless players ever - so I'm guessing a lot of this is down to pure musicianship and 'the fingers'. Ive heard a number of people say that a Stingray Fretless is one of the best Fretless basses - I tend to agree but then I'm biased as I love the things anyway. I suspect a ceramic pick up Musicman (Sterling or 92 ish-08 ish SR5) in Fretless form would also be good - even better with the piezo, which was offered at one time. The other bass I really rate in Fretless form is a Wal. I think all of these basses have a mid range presence which helps you get the mwahhh when you want to, but are bassy and thumpy enough to sound non Fretless when required. That said, a Fender Jazz Fretless in skilled hands can also sound great (I've seen them used on jazz gigs where they've sounded great). Maybe Jaco's live sound in a large theatre venue was a little back in the mix against Zawinul's keyboards (he doubled quite a lot of bass parts on synth).

My first interest in Fretless bass guitar was Boz Burrell with Bad Company, followed by Jaco and then Pino. I would say that between Bernard Edwards, Louis Johnson and then Pino, my interest in playing Stingrays was born and when an immaculate 1993 example cropped up on You Tube about ten years ago I couldn't resist - actually playing all those bass parts recorded on a Fretless on a Fretless rather than a fretted bass (as I did previously) is great fun - a good, and probably not obvious example is Feel Like Making Love by Bad Company - sounds better on a Fretless 😏 However this should dispel any idea a Fretless can't be aggressive sounding as well - excellent slap sound as well as Fretless sound - along with Pino's ever impeccable groove. Musicman Stingray and Trace Elliot I think.

Not wishing to be the purveyor of bad tidings but it has barely stopped snowingfor 24 hrs in N Kent - there's about 150 mm of lying snow, and an amber warning for another 10 cm to 1000 am tomorrow. And thunder and lightning earlier this evening - there's a yellow warning for every day until Saturday for heavy snow.... I wouldn't bet without transport problems Friday and Saturday anywhere in the south - it was chaotic here this morning even on the major routes. Wind chill plus low temperatures stops the salt from working.

That looks very much like a Stingray tribute? Never seen one before. This argument about lines or not is very curious as far I can see. The argument put forward that it takes longer to learn to play an unlined Fretless is certainly not my experience - I bought mine off EBay about 10 yrs ago - I was astounded when I first played it how awful my intonation was - however it took me about two weeks of regular use to get my accuracy to an acceptable level - the dots on the top of the board are essential as location indicators - but beyond that it doesn't take long to get your ear attuned and to be accurate. I find the area about 12th fret can be tricky when standing up (owing to the angle you're viewing the neck, and also the fact the notes are so much closer together). To me the real difference is the aesthetics - I prefer a blank board. I also fully appreciate some people don't - not entirely sure why anyone thinks their choice is more correct than anyone else's.....

I've always had good experiences at the Bass Gallery which has had some excellent basses in stock - responsible for giving me Wal and Musicman Sabre GAS - also tolerating me trying a whole strong of Precision basses before I convinced myself I still prefer Stingrays haha!! Also provided good advice re the board on my Fretless. For those who thought the shop was closed - well so did I the first time I went - you have to press the buzzer and someone lets you in..... I also found its far easier to walk to it by walking up the road on the west side of St Pancras International Station and continuing into Royal College Street than going by tube!! Its an Alladin's cave of bass equipment with some great used stuff on display as well. Wonderful.

As you say, the quality is consistently good across the whole period of production and they're a robust design so tend to be roadworthy as it were - few if any problems likely. There are lots of variations in features - late 80s/90s models in OHSC or original gig bag are rare - especially in the Uk - some basses of that period have crazily figured necks, and some of the colours are extremely rare. So if someone is looking for, say an SR4 in peach with OHSC or gig bag and figured maple neck with maple board from the late 80s, as a for instance, they may be willing to pay more. Similarly for, say a Diego blue classic Sabre from the last few years. Quite a lot of people aren't necessarily looking for just 'any old Stingray' although no doubt there are some people who are! In Fender terms, some people go for the relatively rare international colour basses of the early 80s or the JV ones - perceived quality or simply the coolness of a factory yellow Precision I guess.

Blimey - sounding very interesting - in spite of having a new SR5 in my sights!! I wouldn't worry about taking the neck off - this sounds almost certain to be a 1988 - as Rodney72a said, try EBMM without including the B in the number - plus the volume pot will probably have a sticker on the bottom.

Fabulous bass and great story with an excellent ending. Enjoy your Fretless Ray. I concur with you regarding how good a Fretless Stingray is - I've had mine about 10 yrs - they sound fabulous.

Do what suits you best but remember, if it's good enough for Pino........ This popped up on EBay and I couldn't resist - little did I know I'd have to record with it - successfully two weeks later and used it for about three years as my main bass in the same band - unlined Fretless looks so much better but IMHO - others may prefer lined. Old Horse Murphy's NBD thread also has an unlined Fretless Ray - a bit closer to the colour of Pino's than mine.

Interesting!! You may find EBMM don't have that in their database - sounds like a very early EBMM one. I would suggest you check it out with EBMM. If you looked it up on musicman.org that is not a complete database and only contains details of basses Gav has received - the serials aren't totally consecutive but you can get an idea of date from it.

The serial number is on the bridge - you can get the DOB and build details from EBMM customer services or from the serial number thread on the Musicman bass forum. If you're talking SR4s, late 80s ones for sale aren't that common. They are generally really nice basses - value would possibly be around £1000 + dependent on whether they're in a desirable colour, with ohsc (quite rare) for any MM basses up to mid/late 90s. As a for instance I once was involved in bidding on a 1987 trans red 2 band, immaculate condition, crazily figured birds eye neck also with an ohsc - teardrop MM type - it went way above my upper limit and sold for £1250 ish...... in 2007. I subsequently found out the hard shell case alone was worth, at the time, over £200. I would say around £1000 + if the bass is in very good condition and all original - bear in mind new ones (undiscounted) are around £2000. I wouldn't sell a Stingray for less than £850 these days. Bear in mind there may be another price like when the new Stingrays appear later this year - which may bump up the used values again. For those who just want a Stingray, then these prices won't suit as if you find someone desperate to sell you can probably pick something up cheaper - but as with all instruments many people are more specific with their requirements - look at the price range for a used 'Precision' bass - anything from £250 to £10k plus dependent on what you want.

Absolutely right - I suspect even now many non musicians don't know that McCartney played bass guitar in the Beatles.

Mine too but on reflection the picture may be closer to the Birds Eye fish finger cap'n. But those who were there will definitely get the hysteria of 1964 ish in a way others won't 😉👍 - as with any other world changing event.

I also love the time machine nature of The Chaps/Outlaws picture - as well as the youthful Du Beke, Blackmore, Hodges etc on the wall behind them appears to be a picture of Chas Hodges 50 yrs on........I didn't realise until I played the You Tube. Broken record on not (and what a find and witticism that is 😂) you and Blue are right - you had to be there!!

What I mean is Epstein set up his own empire of which the Beatles were a major part although the venues they played touring the country were the same as other acts - in fact a friend of mine saw both the Beatles and Cliff and the Shadows at the same venue - a couple of years apart - another had the good fortune to be given a ticket for the audience of Thank Your Lucky Stars when the Beatles were on the bill so I guess you are right in that sense. Interestingly the first couple of singles did not impact upon my life any more than any other music of the time - I was vaguely aware of With Love from Me to You. But it exploded subsequently. But yes you are also right re the films etc etc - I think the 'establishment' saw pop acts as lasting a max of a couple of years thus artists were steered or travelled of their own accord down other avenues (eg Tommy Steele with musicals). Of course the likes of Elvis were also longer lasting - but so were the Beatles - another mould breaker.