drTStingray

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1508243287' post='3390754'] I'd probably define mainstream a little differently = a style used by well recognised and well respected rock and pop musicians. How does that sound? [/quote] It's a style which came out of black American R and B and transferred into all related genres (disco, funk, jazz funk, even hip hop). It also transferred into R and B influenced pop (I'm talking Seal, M People etc etc). Rock musicians have generally not played slap - even RATM could be described as a fusion of hip hop and rock. However there's quite a bit of slap in metal. So it seems to be alive and kicking in all the genres it was originally. And sometimes in pop - even radio-played pop. Never popular in rock bands and I guess still isn't generally. Are there a lot of rock players on here? I don't think too much has changed.....

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1508081967' post='3389614'] Yes ! I Just read your (great) post in the other thread. [/quote] Cheers!! I must admit I've now watched this video more than once - some great tips in there from some of 'the masters' for my money.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1508146002' post='3389993'] I'm not sure a bunch of old guys slapping in the tickled trout makes it "mainstream"? [/quote] Maybe slapping tickled trout.... On the contrary, most young bass players I come across can and do play slap bass - I find it's generally some of the old guys who've never learnt how, or who only like a very narrow range of music (eg country and western) who seem to object to it!!

Call me old fashioned, but as far as I'm concerned it's mainstream. I play some slap every day and even try and learn new lines and patterns. I suppose my practice routine includes 70% finger style and 30% slap. I also learn new finger style patterns as well. I play some slap in all four bands I play in, I think in moderation. I always recall something a rockabilly guitarist of advancing years told some time ago - upright slap bass is very impressive - for about 3 songs.... some of these guys don't play any proper bass lines. I tend to agree with this - too much gets boring. Rather like too much flat wound string thumpy bass - ok but it's rather one dimensional unless played like, for instance Pino with John Mayer where he plays with a lot of dynamics. I'm all for variation in styles of bass - why limit yourself - there are a whole range of styles available.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1508087054' post='3389659'] The world will move on, despite such acrimony, and 'Any good for metal' will no longer be recognised as a valid, grammatical phrase. 'Wodja mean, metal, innit..?' will be the future response, coupled with scratching the top of the head. [/quote] The thing is though, the demographic into music genres like metal is far younger. I suspect the area which will get less popular as generations depart are the 70s classic songs played in pubs - like All Right Now. In the same way as the audience for The Shadows and the like dwindles - when I played in such a tribute band the age group of the audience never ceased to amaze (or worry) me - let's say there were quite a few very elderly people - nothing wrong with that but.... Music like the Beatles, Tamla etc seems (if the West End is anything to go by) timeless and attracts all generations. In contrast early 70s prog and rock was very largely a male preserve with many sitting twiddling the ends of their beards if you know what I mean. Bands like ELO etc had a broader appeal (even Level 42 does - I was astonished at the number of 40 something women in the audience at one of their recent concerts). I don't think bass guitarists have anything to worry about - the likes of X Factor winners will continue to be touring with proper bands and musicians.

Great stuff - thanks for posting. 1980s - notably not a Fender bass in sight!!

The bass has different roles in different music forms but is generally there in one form or another. It is important to understand the history a little to take a view on the future. Take the upright bass - in classical music it is sometimes bowed, sometimes plucked - in jazz it is almost always plucked - and still is - the upright is alive and well!! The electric bass guitar started off performing a role similar to an upright - and was generally frowned upon in jazz with one or two exceptions, until the 70s. But basically it allowed the bass to be heard better - and was invariably plucked. Anyone with the mistaken idea that the Fender P appeared on most rock and roll in the 50s and pop in the 60s is sadly deluded. For starters a lot of rock and roll retained upright bass (rockabilly still does) - bass guitar entered the fray in songs like Baby I Don't Care by Elvis (interestingly played by Elvis allegedly because his rather superb (and generally upright) player Bill Black) had problems playing the guitar-like riff. All the early Elvis was on upright, sometimes slapped without a drummer. The bass guitar was on most pop music from the 60s (much of the U.K. output not on a Fender - pop players like the Beatles were allowed to play their own instruments rather than have studio players do it). If you look at Bubinga5's post 'All Star Bass Series - Masters of the Bass' you'll see how bass was in the 80s for the players at the front of the game - interesting a lot of those were ex upright players - and the film is a very accurate display of how bass was in that era for many. And synth bass joined in (as early as the early 70s with Superstition, Higher Ground, Boogie on Reggae Woman by Stevie Wonder) but really became prevalent in pop music in the 80s - people were worried that guitar and bass guitar was on the way out, such was the take over of keyboards. So all these forms of bass, and the bass guitar are still here now. Types of bass instrument change with music styles - so in my opinion there'll always be a place for bass guitar and specifically a bassist. Yes, a computer can emulate it but there is an argument that the feel a good player can introduce is lost. There are lots of bassists around - but I do get concerned that the current fad for very simplistic bass played as a muddy rumble in the background on some pop music does not exploit the range and role the bass has available and worse still, might put off new players in the same way 60s groups sometimes gave the worst guitar player the bass role as being the least challenging instrument. Not everything about the 60s was wonderful and being heard on records or live on the bass was actually quite challenging - a bit like some modern pop music...... As an analogy back in the late 70s and early 80s social club circuit groups started using drum machines - they were perceived as having many benefits but the main ones were not having to share a small stage with a load of stuff and not having to share the fee with a drummer - so it was feasible to play as a duo. I don't see any reduction in the amount of drummers around these days.... we did worry for them back then!! So I think the bass guitar will always be around and in all genres except classical, jazz and rockabilly is probably the most prevalent bass instrument. Keyboard is quite popular is dance and especially electro music.

I've always associated these with guitarists going for that Duane Eddy style low twang. There are lots of example played on them - used by Hank Marvin on a couple of tunes. The guitar solo in Witchita Lineman is an example of the sound. The whole concept seemed to me to be a guitar with lower notes available - the string spacing is definitely guitar not bass. There is a lot of interest in these from 60s guitarist officianados - quite a portion of whom in my experience aren't willing to pay top end guitar prices and make do, for instance with Mexican fiesta red Strats. Maybe that's why Fender pitch the model where they do. I think they did a Fender re-release some years back - I seem to remember one of the old guys I know showing me one of these. In terms of use as a bass, there are examples but not many. Jack Bruce used a bass V for a while - 30 in scale E to C where you played across the strings instead of up them - once again not a hugely popular idea. I remember a Bass V being on the wall of the music shop where I played a Precision bass for the first time - circa 1970. Always intrigued me!!

There's at least one person on here who has one - they look very nice indeed and have the ceramic magnet pick up. I'm going to a shop tomorrow and if they have one will be checking it out!! Unfortunately the price of all Instruments is more reasonable in the US as a result if the exchange rate. These are on the pricey side but a beautiful instrument nonetheless.

If you were around in the 80s, if you couldn't slap you'd be quite likely to fail an audition. Used tastefully it can create a nice dynamic change - and from my experience, audiences find it exciting and like it. Of the bass players I know locally, there are very few who use the technique and probably a similar number who can't actually do it. It's well worth using, in my view, as long as you do it tastefully.

[quote name='pfonck334' timestamp='1507103363' post='3383270'] I owen to 1990 stingrays and I have under my eyes an official Musicman brochure from 1990 and I can tell you 100% that both bass and treble are boost and cut. At least for the stingrays from that period I don't know for the new one [/quote] Yes, always were from the start and still are!!

[quote name='Muppet' timestamp='1506802389' post='3381271'] The neck is finished differently to the headstock,,so I guess that’s why there’s two different shades.,the guitars are the same from what I’ve seen. [/quote] Apart from the Classic series, which have fully lacquered necks, and standard Bongo basses painted necks) all MM basses (and guitars) have the head stocks lacquered and the remainder of the neck has an oil and wax finish. There's a far more pronounced join between the two finishes on a roasted maple neck (although this one looks a lot lighter in colour than the one on my Neptine Blue Sabre). Such a cool bass - congratulations.

+1 for trying as many as you can - I spent more than 6 months searching for a 5 string trying as many makes and models as possible. I ended up buying a new Stingray 5 and am still, 15 yrs later, very pleased with it. Second choices were Lakland, Warwick and Yamaha, all good in their own right also - at the time Fender's offerings were very high end or Mexican, and I didn't like either the neck profiles or their sounds. If you're anything like me you may prefer new basses rather than used - if so a Sterling by Musicman Sub 5 new may fit your budget, but for a similar price a used SBMM Ray 35 might be had, and this would give you more flexibility in sound with the 3 band EQ and three way switch - the core tone would also be good, as well as the B string sound on either. The Stingray 5 was one of the first mass production 5 string basses and although is designed around the original Stingray concept, it was designed from scratch as a 5 string - my experience is it works extremely well - the Ray 35 is largely the same bass with some savings in component quality and Far East assembly.

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1506609606' post='3379920'] The USA SUB is a great bass... but light they ain't. Heavy monsters all of them. [/quote] Not so - my USA Sub 5 is positively feather weight - so much so that whilst playing it seated, the neck over-balances causing neck dive - however it's fine on a strap. They have poplar bodies (which 90s era solid colours often have also). Similarly with Stingrays - for the 4 string, generally about 9.5 lbs but there is variation both upwards and downwards - Sterlings may be lighter than this. Stingray 5s are bigger basses, and may be 10.5 lbs - however some are lighter. The Cutlass and Caprice seem to be around 8.5 lbs - great if you want an ultra playable P or PJ.

[quote name='Cuzzie' timestamp='1506452738' post='3378900'] +1 for a USA SUB and then put a Nordstrand MM pick up in it. It will be classic sounding [/quote] Each to their own, but I'm not entirely sure of the reason to change the pick up to an aftermarket copy - the USA Sub has the same basic pick up and electronics in use in Stingrays from the beginning of time (or 1979 in the case of the EQ as there were several revisions prior to that). The people making the best Musicman style bass are, of course, Musicman!! There are lots of different types though, and different neck dimensions and finishes - just a case of finding the model which fits personal preference. I have a USA Sub 5 and whilst it's a very cool bass in its own right, it's not a patch on my Stingray 5 - which has a great deal more versatility owing to the 3 band EQ, and series/parallel/single coil selection available - and gorgeous natural gloss finish.

Dependent on the desirability (colour, OHSC, figured neck etc), a Stingray like this may well sell for £1200 (€1345). The prices of used ones appear to be on the increase, presumably contributed to an extent by the increase in the prices of new ones and the demand.

I always rated Dave Peacock's bass playing (and Chas Hodges for that matter - he's on a Jerry Lee Lewis album I have - and pretty fine bass playing as well) - of their sessions stuff, I only found out fairly recently they are both on this (memorable bit starts at 2 mins 10 secs - Dave on bass, Chas on guitar. http://youtu.be/xKISdd2mKzU

I think he means Bb? I tend to use Ernie Ball strings on my SR5, having tried lots of other types - I have had the Super Slinky pink pack 5 string set on for about 6 months and have been very impressed - gauge is 125 to 40. The low B sounds very tight and focussed (including recorded) and the whole bass sounds excellent - very well balanced sound.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1505381642' post='3371432'] Mine was in front of the bridge so killed the sound. Everyone I knew removed the foam, even if they didn't take the ash trays off. [/quote] Sorry to pick on your quote chris_b - but would you guys (and Carol Kaye) be intimating ........ that Leo got this element of the P bass wrong? Blimey... Mind you I've heard Carol Kaye describe P basses generally in less than glowing terms in the past. And he did fix it on the Mustang as I understand so was happy to improve on designs.

I think the following is correct:- All Sterling H (4 or 5 strings) have ceramic and series - with series/parallel/some form of single coil switching. The Sterling with multi pickups are also ceramic - with series wiring (coil selection but no parallel) - as previously observed the multi pick up Sterling wouldn't do the classic Stingray parallel sound - the ceramic magnets make a more punchy and warm version of the Stingray parallel sound on H versions. Stingray 5H has similar electronics and pick up spec to the Sterling from 1992 to 2008 - after which the SR5H has alnico magnets which is the only difference as I understand. The early SR5s also had alnico but the single coil switch selection was not as silent as in the later post 1992 models. If you really want clarity on this, email EBMM customer services and they will confirm the specs - the one area I'm not clear about is whether the current SR5 HS and HH has parallel or series wiring but I suspect may be parallel - the H definitely has series still - not that I need to know as I'm not planning buying a multi pick up SR5 - maybe an SR5 H though.......

My basses are more modern than that ash tray laden thing people are referring to - if you can call designed 40 odd years ago more modern - I suppose it represents an improvement on 60 yrs old - say Escort RS1600 compared to Ford Popular. Anyhoooo - these basses, be they the 1993 fretted or Fretless, 2010, 2014 or 2016 built ones all have a custom designed individual string muting system - which Leo and mates brought over from the 60s Mustang bass - doesn't affect intonation at all from my experience no matter how much you wind them on - being able to do this means you can vary the intensity of muting by individual string or across the whole bass - and neither did stuffing a nice think sponge and scourer pad up by the bridge on a 2007 version of one of these modern basses which similarly had no effect on intonation. Lots of other famous bassists have been filmed or pictured using a similar system with a chunk of sponge or foam rubber - Bob Babbitt, George Porter Jnr etc etc (they were using Precisions). What sort of bass and what sort of mute equipment were you guys using to get this intonation problem - seems astonishing to me.

I didn't even bother to cut the one I used on a Stingray a few years back - it was one of those scourers with sponge one side and a thin scourer layer on the top - worked a treat stuffed between the pick up and bridge - and it was blue (rather than the yellow and green ones you often see on the supermarket shelves!!) - matched the colour of the bass.... Great for playing early Elvis stuff like My Baby Left Me and Blue Moon of Kentucky.

[quote name='bassace' timestamp='1504468467' post='3365119'] And why do they play Green Onions at that speed these days? [/quote] I'd tend to agree with you but I saw a video of Booker T and the MGs doing it live in the late 60s and they did it at that speed - I was astonished how hard Duck Dunn played on it as well. The version they did on the Prom was true to the live version I've heard (I suspect some of the other songs were as well - probably the influence of Booker T and Steve Cropper). Jools was very laid back and only played one piano solo in the whole set, and that one was perfectly in genre. I really don't know why people have such a downer on such an excellent musician and band.

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1504459629' post='3365011'] There'd been 5 days of rehearsals (between interviews) for the JH guys and the Stax originals. That's not a hell of a lot between guys who hadn't met before, and considering their ages. Cropper and Booker are such seasoned veterans and session men that they can pretty much drop in with most bands, but the vocalists I thought did really well considering. I was three rows back almost directly behind JH and the sound was pretty good from there, once Cropper's amp got fired up properly. [/quote] Sounded great on my tele as well - the bass needs to be prominent in that sort of music and credit to the guys mixing, it was good. I watched some of the earlier big band Prom as well and that sounded good - double basses nicely in the mix.

[quote name='Jack' timestamp='1504459241' post='3365006'] Conversely, both of mine exhibit the quiet G. [/quote] Do you mean recorded or when heard whilst stood a couple of feet in front of your amp? If they are 3 band instruments have you tried altering the mid range? That usually has a major impact (you can hear the change by playing G string harmonics also). If 2 band boost the mid range on your amp or drop the tone controls back a bit to introduce more mid range.