drTStingray

[quote name='petetexas' timestamp='1504429115' post='3364720'] The one issue I still have , is that the top G seems quieter than the rest of the strings , even though the pup is tilted ( .190" gap from pup top to bottom of G string , and .250" gap pup top to bottom of E string . [/quote] Firstly try and check the front of house sound as it may not be producing the same effect as you're hearing. If still an issue, if you drop the bass boost back a little you will find more mid range will appear in the sound which may even it out. Failing all that, boost the mid range on the amp a little. I have never felt the need to mess around with the pick up poles on a Stingray (I have 9 of them) - and have found them to produce an even FOH sound and record evenly also, across the strings - I'm not even convinced it makes any difference at all (other than lowering the resale value!!).

I really enjoyed it and how wonderful to be able to hear the bass well - was that a white Ibanez Musician or similar Dave Swift was using? Beverley Knight is really excellent.

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1503914225' post='3361462'] No more routing since the EMGs went in. Here is the weight of a 40DC and the MM5CS. The 2 pickups together weigh 0.8 lb ! [/quote] Crikey that's a lot!!

[quote name='Misdee' timestamp='1503917738' post='3361501'] Don't be surprised if EBMM steal your idea and start marketing this adaptation. They have already committed heresy by introducing a passive Fender- style P and PJ, so what do they have to lose? [/quote] They already did create basses with a decent Precision sound (amongst others) - the Classic Sabre has a neck pick up single coil selection which sounds like a Precision (I have one - the setting is quite useful for occasional use) - the Big Al does a passive P sound really well. As one of the early Stingray prototypes had a P type pick up and more than one modified Stingrays with a P pick up have been featured on here it's hardly a new idea - interesting on a five string though.

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1503909348' post='3361403'] I'm getting tons of clank from mine. Depending on how hard I play. Gentle = round full tone. Hard = proper clank. [/quote] That is because the sound of a Stingray and especially a Stingray 5 is contributed to heavily by the construction - the bridge especially with those deep seated bolts as well as screws and heavy mass, along with the body resonance (especially if it's an ash body). So you've got all of that as well as your vintage sounding P pickup. If you look at the bridges on the MM passive basses (Cutlass and Caprice - P and PJ) you'll see the bolts aren't included - when asked about this MM said it was deliberate and is part of the design to get a more vintage sound. Btw the weight loss may be to do with you having two defunct pick up routs and the pre amp/ multi switch rout - quite a lot of wood missing under that scratch plate now?

[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1503853527' post='3361187'] Absolutely bang on. A bit of kick through the pa with a boost at 60hz really hits you in the chest and mixing that with the bass gives you the basis of a great gig. After all its live music and should be something you can feel as well as hear. Problem is many people don't know where to boost and cut. [/quote] I don't disagree with this - up to a point - but it requires restraint on the part of the drummer. Kick drum is an oft misused thing. It also depends on the genre - If you have a drummer with one of those double bass drum pedal thingys who likes to show off with the occasional roll on it, it can be a nightmare - the drummer equivalent of having a guitarist who plays like full on Slash on everything - including Ed Sheeran songs. Last night at our gig (a large pub) I must confess to getting a little peeved with our (new) drummer and sound person at sound check - the bass drum PA sound was boomy (in fact it was a large and boomy bass drum anyway so needed cut), and he was also in the monitors (inexplicably). This plays havoc in trying to play groove based funk music as it tends to drown out any intricacies of the groove construction between different instruments. I'd played an outdoor gig earlier with a different band where the sound was excellent - anyway we sorted it out but I confess to having pointed out that unless I was mistaken, 76 Trombones hadn't been added to our set list and we weren't planning to do marching music as a part of the set so what's with the loud sub sonic boom in the kick? It was remixed to a thud and deleted from the monitors (which meant everyone else in the band could hear what they were playing without it being over powered by subsonic boom mush). Anyway it was sorted amicably to everyone's satisfaction and a good gig was had by all.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1503818715' post='3360985'] It's called a conversation. This is what happens [/quote] Or a thread hijack - dependent on one's perspective 😏 The OP has said his query was answered in the first few replies. That tends to colour my view.

[quote name='petetexas' timestamp='1503595621' post='3359560'] Hi Guys, Tilted the pup (nearer the G string , and further away on the E) for tonights gig . I WILL TAKE A SCREWDRIVER WITH ME - JUST IN CASE ! . If there is no improvement , I will then move the pole pieces , or try a compressor to even out . Must go , the van is outside for me . Pete [/quote] Other than getting the pick up orientation correct (there are factory settings), you may find that injudicious boosting of the bass EQ may appear to create this effect when stood in front of your amp, especially if you scoop the sound on the amp as well - even more so if you play in a band where the stage sound is awash with low end keyboard or guitar chords - however Stingrays don't create this effect when recorded, or even at FOH which leads to a conclusion that the problem some people find is to do with EQ choices on amp and/or bass. As the pole pieces on a single humbucker Stingray follow the contours of the neck (and thus string height from that end of the bass), the only way I could think that levelling the pole pieces would alter anything would be if someone has set the bass up, for instance with low and completely even saddle heights thus making the D and A strings closer to the pole pieces. Another thing to consider is string guage - Stingrays come fitted with 100 to 45 stings - put a 105 on and it may change the balance towards biasing the E string. Anyway I hope you get it sorted.

Blimey this thread's gone all grumpy old fella suddenly ........ The bass is devised around a one off prototype from 1976 - i wasn't aware anyone was suggesting all Stingrays should have been like this - it's a limited edition that's been issued in a couple of additional colours.

Congratulations - that looks great, especially in the butterscotch. I agree with you regarding the slightly less aggressive sound - mine has quite an old school thump to the sound - however I find it still has the trademark Stingray slap sound - perhaps a little less aggressive, as you say than a 3 band. How do you find the slap sound?

I've been asked to play a solo in a blues before now (normally the 12 bar format). One of the best examples I can think of a blues song (albeit a jazz one) with solo bass is Goodbye Pork Pie Hat - the Marcus Miller version is nice and the bass solo towards the end has some killer phrases. http://youtu.be/iAeeKDTPEw0

[quote name='casapete' timestamp='1503177970' post='3356303'] Also one of the first players I remember seeing with a MM Stingray ( and matching MM rig!) [/quote] I've seen footage of the whole band using MM rigs, and the rhythm guitarist using a Stingray guitar also - I think Carl Radle was one of the first bassists using the Stingray and continued to for a long period.

I used to use one (an Aphex one) I haven't used one for about 5 years. Mind you I generally play Stingrays, which can produce a slightly compressed sound naturally. I don't have problems with consistency of sound so don't feel the need to use it - the reason I did previously was to have the ability to get a very squashed sound when required. I think they can be useful to even your sound intensity.

I have made several attempts over the last 40 something years to learn to sight read notation fluently. I suspect the lack of a requirement to do so virtually ever for my bass playing has contributed to the fact that I still can't - other reasons being laziness etc. The vast majority of my requirements have been fulfilled by learning material from recorded work. It's only in more recent years that notated (or tab) bass parts have become readily available - many years ago the closest you would get is a piano left hand part which often did not reflect the bass part - more it provided pianists with an ability to play the piece unaccompanied rather than reflecting any part of the artist's recording. I don't think tab is evil - it has helped me to learn quite complex things I could never have worked out by ear - and would probably have struggled with from the notation - but by using reference books or magazine transcriptions which show both notation and tab, it has given me a speedier reference to the notes and has also helped me to recognise notated rythmn and rest patterns thus helping my ability to sight read (I struggle less with the notes than with the rythmn when sight reading). I have learned (from notation) examples like the entire piano part and trumpet part for Cantaloupe Island - to both supplement my understanding of the piece and also allow me to concoct a solo bass piece. This is purely for personal interest and development - I've only ever played in one project where the song was played and I was required to play the bass part (and a short solo). If I'm depping I might download tabs as a quick reference to speed up the learning process - I'm far more likely to write my own chord charts for reference on the gig. I'm quite in awe of people who can read fluently - several brass players I know turn up for dep gigs with their own hand written notation and play standards (I'm talking things like Pick Up the Pieces, Watermelon Man, Autumn Leaves) accurately - I guess the brass parts do need to be spot on. So I think it has its place, and has its limitations, but can be a quick reference to play at least the notes accurately....... the question of incorrect transcription affects notation as well as tab - the fact there is (possibly) more tab available may result in more inaccuracy (certainly I've seen tab from web sites which is completely wrong - simply using your ear and playing along will clarify if something is wrong!!). This is probably anathema to purists but it works for me and I think has helped my reading of notation. I think a significant proportion of what I play is about feel and even notation is limited in its ability to convey that - I think that's something the player provides.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1502781407' post='3353399'] File compression and audio compression are not the same thing. The A has always meant Address. [/quote] I meant the compression effect on modern music created on digital platforms, creating a lower standard of audio quality. I think most of us know A in PA = address. I was referring to the joke earlier in the thread that the A appears to mean amplification (as opposed to broadening) the sound of some instruments - notably the bass drum.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1502711539' post='3352991'] It's an inheritance from the dark days of disco, I think, which has skewed their hearing and expectations of what constitutes 'good sound'. [/quote] The wierd thing is that if you went clubbing in the late 70s/early 80s you'd get great sounding bass guitar and bass drum (the latter 4 to the floor) - the sound would be properly separated on the 12" single and the DJ would not be boosting sub sonic mush. Now if you went to one of the pubs in Handsworth playing dub reggae, the bass would be extremely prominent - using 18" speakers - enough to rattle your small intenstines - but still appropriate to the genre, with all the usual elements perfectly audible. Sub sonic mush is a much more recent mainstream creation IMHO - partially to do with modern equipment allowing you to do it (give many people a means of boosting the bass and they'll turn it to 11), ludicrously compressed music being acceptable through digital media and becoming the norm, and also people thinking anything 'vintage' is great when in many cases it is and always was complete rubbish - I'm thinking overly scooped mixing techniques; mixing the bass drum at the same volume and sonic space as the bass guitar and other notorious ideas eminating from the 60s and no doubt great for some music of that era, but capable of ruining music from any genre or era with different ideas - to me an analogy would be someone inventing a gadget called 'Phil Spector sound' and every DJ and sound mixer pressing the button for every song they play. I recently was a wedding guest and was rather amused to hear the DJ provide such a scooped and sub prominent sound that songs by Chic and other disco era acts had far less middle than appropriate - so you could only hear the low notes on the bass, and the bass drum prominently - so you'd lose half the bass line - and complete instruments such as piano. Singing, hi hat and symbols, low notes and bass drum was the basic offering - made for some quite strange sounding songs although the more modern stuff seemed to fare better. Rant over - I do like the idea of the A in PA meaning address rather than amplifier!!

[quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1502109826' post='3349338'] I think you completely missed the point I made in the OP...... When I'm talking about augmenting what I really mean is using your guitar knowledge to play bass better (eg if you know a sus4 chord will sound good, why not build a riif on the 3rd/4th, or if you think an add 9 chord works in that song play a 2nd etc) [/quote] Apologies for editing your reply. I don't think we're a million miles away and I probably agree with your last para. What I'm saying is many bass players get to the same point by a different route (eg learning walking bass lines - which often have far more passing tones than the guitarist will play) - and then scales and modes - for instance the dominant seventh chord is based around the mixolidian mode. Whilst a rythmn guitarist will focus on chords for obvious reasons a bass player will focus on single notes and probably root ones often. The reason for listing stuff in order in my post was that is the exact route I've followed - for instance I learned Teen Town over a period without even thinking about the 13th chords it's constructed around - I started looking into that later once I could play the bass part as I was curious how Marcus Miller and Victor Wooton solo around it. Similarly Sir Duke by Stevie Wonder where there's a part of a diminished scale played - which led me to experiment with the scale over the whole bass - which then helps me if I get a diminished to play. This is largely because my attention span on theory is not long so it suits me to dip in and out when it suits me - and also to follow up bass parts I've learned by understanding a bit of the theory. If you gave me a guitar to play I couldn't play a diminished chord straight off but I could play the scale in any key in any position on the bass. I guess we are all different!!!

[quote name='oldbass' timestamp='1502032735' post='3348856'] Was working at the Wickham Festival in Hants last nite (media drone!) and as always I'm keen to "assess" the bass tone for a couple of bands...well the two mid evening bands played P's and to say they sounded bloated and indistinct would be an understatement....why do we bother discussing this and that piece of gear etc. Maybe we should discuss individual sound guys....ha [/quote] Funny you should say that - it was one of the main reasons I fell out of love with the P bass in the early 70s - modern amplification has helped a lot though. I think you'll find that's the main reason why basses like Alembics, Musicman and all the others were invented (I.e. active basses).

[quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1501923468' post='3348215'] I am a self taught bassist/guitarist. Spent my youth playing in originals bands and after a long break i am now in my 40s playing in a covers band. In all bands I've never needed to learn much theory and especially now I just learn the bassline to the song we are covering. Kids are a bit older now and wife is always out so I decided to go back to basics and learn a load of scales, dorian, locrian etc Wow...what a revelation. I have never enjoyed playing bass this much and can hardly put it down. Stick my earphones into my amp linked up to you tube for some jamming backing tracks in a chosen key and I'm in heaven. Noodling for hours!! Anyone else gone back to learning scales many years after picking up the bass? [/quote] Excellent - well done - learning scales is excellent and will give you a number of skills - not least articulation over a scale and also, if you practice them gradually at speed, being able to play more quickly. I always return to scales, modes and arpeggios when I run out of inspiration - it normally gets the inspiration going again!!

I've been playing for around 45 years and have never specifically learned chord tones. However I usually am able to identify what chords other band members are playing from my knowledge learnt from, probably in order:- 1) learning thousands of bass parts for songs ranging in complexity from very simple to reasonably complicated. 2) learning all the notes on the fretboard and how to play phrases in different positions 2) learning bass parts played by favourite bass players 3) learning solos played by favourite bass players 4) having a very broad musical taste and listening to a very wide range of music 5) learning scales 6) learning modes 7) learning argeggios 8) along the way figuring out diatonic harmony and playing double stops or three notes chords 9) along the way becoming accustomed to chord tones like 7th, 9th, 13th, diminished, half diminished etc I think there is quite a misnomer that the bass guitar is a subset of a 6 string guitar - this is as wrong as saying a double bass is a sub set of a cello or violin - apart from the physical similarities their function is quite different - in the case of guitar v bass guitar the only similarity is theyre strung instruments and can be held the same way - the music played on them is completely different, requiring a different mind set to play ensemble. I have been told several times during my playing years that bass players can't be any good unless they can play guitar - I'm afraid that's nonsense. Learning chord tones per se can broaden a bass player's ability - however I wouldn't see it as a pre requisite - it can be very helpful in jazz when comping with a piano player in the band as seeing/hearing their chords can help in choosing notes on the bass. If you're going to do things on the fly it's also v important to know the effect playing say a 3rd note against the root chord is - because it will colour the music in a certain way (used quite often in Abba - an example is Dancing Queen). Otherwise the bass will probably play the root note (the safe option). The octave you play that in will have a marked impact on the sound though.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1501918034' post='3348153'] Standard internet way of thinking these days, if someone asks if it is vital to do something and lots of people say no, those that do whatever it is take that as they are in the wrong. Is it vital? No, is it wrong for those that do? No. [/quote] Some of us like to do it, are able to do it (owing to equipment choice and technique), and think it makes their band sound better - the fact that band members, punters and producers also like it suggests those of us that do are certainly not wrong. However if you get told by a whole stream of people that they don't bother, ergo it doesn't matter, it's quite natural to get a bit irritated. A lot of us spend a fortune on bass gear, for lots of reasons but more often than not in search of the elusive perfect sound (s). Those that don't are fine - each to their own. But it doesn't mean bass sound doesn't matter within a song or piece - rather it means they don't think it does. There's also nothing wrong with doing your own interpretation of a cover either. Anyone saying bass sound didn't matter in the 70s, 80s and 90s would have been considered rather strange (even more so if they were a bassist) - just listen to how those songs are mixed compared with now - it seems that some of the attitudes of 60s pop music, as well as the sounds, instruments and mixing have taken over the mainstream over the last decade and a half.

[quote name='Jakester' timestamp='1501839117' post='3347665'] Noone's using mental health as an excuse or stigmatising it. [/quote] Your post is a good clarification. Let's hope not! Or stereotyping black rap artists. Cannabis induced psychosis is an interesting one - possibly exacerbation of a pre-existing condition rather than actually creating the condition in the first place.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1501754734' post='3347100'] Now there's a title you didn't expect to read. Kanye cancelled a string of concerts last year after displaying "strained, confused and erratic" behaviour at his concert in Sacramento. He then spent a week in a psychiatric hospital. Lloyds are refusing to cough up on the cancellation costs, on the grounds that the star's excessive use of marijuana had led to this behaviour. And where do I get this from? The BBC? The NME? Another 3-letter acronym? Nope. The Financial Times, Companies & Markets section. [/quote] Extraordinary that an insurance company should be able to diagnose the cause of mental illness so readily when the medical profession itself is often unable to over someone's lifetime!! Even more tenuous the link between marijuana (as opposed to other class B substances) and mental illness. This wouldn't have anything to do with the fact it'd cost them a lot of money to pay out so they owe it to their shareholders to contest the claim as a matter of course? Whatever next? Insurance companies refusing to pay out on motor insurance claims because someone may have used intoxicating substances in the past (even alcohol)! Some of us may have had quite 'interesting' experiences with insurance companies in the past so this will come as no shock!!

There doesn't seem to be a lot of love for the Rickenbacker on this forum so I can see why a lot of people like this video. However he doesnt appear to have noticed the highest profile user of all, or that Larry Graham is pictured playing one on Thankyoufor etc etc etc. He does say the tone is unique and excellent - something I never realised until I saw someone testing one fairly recently - easily as flexible in tone as a Jazz - much more than a Precision. And some elements of those owe their engineering to prehistoric 1950s also. I also do wish people would learn to pronounce the name properly - Backer as in back door - not barker as in chief barker - or bocker as in knickerbacker (sic) glory!! 😁

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1501538914' post='3345440'] We are a band who cover songs using our own sounds. We sound like us. The Guitarist does change sounds for each song, but he's limited by the guitar he has, the amp and cab he has, and even the make of effects he purchased. [/quote] That's all fine but why shouldn't the bass guitarist do something similar. In fact I think we all possibly do - by varying how we play song to song - I too used to take effects with me but rarely do these days - largely because I can't be bothered and because there's often not enough space to set them up - however I do play Chameleon- which does sound better with envelope than without. I suppose if you wanted to be really accurate you'd play it on a keyboard - I think it sounds good on bass guitar. Is the debate here really along the lines should you use a bass with flexibility in sound or one which doesn't - I guess there's no right answer - each to their own I guess - I know what I prefer!