drTStingray

This isn't quite right - yes they won't sell you a body or neck without swapping for the one being replaced - and quite right too. But I think you can still order parts but not direct - you would need to order via a dealer (in the same way you would order a bass or strings etc). Anyone know what happened to the OP?

Thus bass already exists (US Sterling with 3 way selector for parallel/series/single coil. I understand MM do sell replacement pick ups and EQs also.

This genre often has quite prominent bass so Stingray or Stingray 5 is ideal. Many people use active basses for this type of thing - in my opinion you need something with an authoratitive sound. Warwick/Wal would be another choice.

Musicman use dummy coils on most of their active basses with single coils and they operate in that mode without hum. Not sure what they do on the new Caprice bass (passive PJ) but they also have a patented silent circuit which is fitted in the Classic Sabre which also operates in single coil mode hum-free. I would be surprised if other manufacturers haven't also addressed the issue.

It arrived - wow that is gorgeous - congratulations.

[quote name='Dandelion' timestamp='1490049625' post='3261852'] Over many months I have managed to squirrel away enough spends for a EB Stingray. My question to you is this, As I already have SB Ray 34, will it really be that much of an upgrade? From my understanding the only difference is the place of manufacture. Both the EB and the SB are quality controlled and shipped from the same US factory I am led to believe. The only difference I can fathom is thay the EB has a compensated nut. Whatcha think? [/quote] Directly on topic, virtually all of what you say is incorrect. EBMM do not have any involvement in the manufacture, quality checking, set up of SBMM basses - a different company does it under licence from EBMM. Some of the parts are similar but some are different and of lower quality. There are also a stack of options on the US basses you don't get with the cheaper versions. However you can easily try some to see whether you'll be happy with the extra price over the Ray 34. Hopefully you'll come back sometime and let us know how you got on. Notwithstanding that some people have already commented they use a US Sub to scratch their Musicman bass itch, and good value they are too, their finish would be a backward step if you have a Ray 34 - not least their lack of body contour and industrial finish. They are certainly a great sounding and playing Musicman on a budget but that does not meet some people's aspiration for a proper US Stingray - for example my US Sub 5 is a cool and quirky bass (it is white, which is my favourite colour on them) but is completely overshadowed by my natural/maple SR5. It's like comparing a house with very cheap furnishings and carpets with one with more expensive ones - there's actually quite a difference.

As I understand it, on the SBMM basses the tuners are not the same quality as a US Ray - not sure about the rest of the hardware. The battery box is a cheaper version also. A major element of the US Stingray is the completion of the neck by hand and filling of the ends of the fret slots. I suspect this is what gives that awesome playability - you will not get that level of quality with the cheaper versions. Many of the parts are subtly different to prevent people profiting by making up cut and shut jobs with the cheaper parts and passing them off as real ones. The advantage of buying new is you pick the colour and spec you want and get the feel of a brand new bass. That said there are some cool used basses around as well if you're willing to wait for the right one to crop up. The 3 band EQ does give more control and allows you to change sound on the fly for specific songs - it can be useful for strange sounding rooms. That said the 2 bands sound great as well. There is also the choice between maple and rosewood boards, one or two pick ups and the configuration of them. You will need to try some to find the type you want. Note although the USA Subs are great value and have the US electronics, pick up, similar tuners (without Musicman on them) etc, they also don't have the level of neck hand sanding and fret end filling. That is one of the ways they saved money as well as using less favourable looking wood and painting it. However they do sound and play excellently and although I have a number of Stingrays I also have a US Sub 5 which I think is a cool bass in its own right in bog standard form and gets some play time at times.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1489509814' post='3257546'] From Rush.com's "rig rundown" section, 1989: The colour-coding apparently helped him when he was breaking in a new ARP synthesiser and bass pedal arrangement. [/quote] Without a tort scratch plate that bass just doesn't make it ..... 😂😄

AFAIK parts like EQs, control knobs, tuners and the like have been available for ages. Not sure about pick ups. They certainly won't sell you a large part like a neck or a body without swapping for the original. That's great for people buying used basses as they generally don't have to worry about people selling made up concoctions as the real thing (apart from the occasional attempt to pass off a cheaper copy as the real thing). That's also why many of the parts are deliberately not interchangeable between the SBMM, Sub (non US versions), and Musicman basses. Note there's two types of Sabre control plate, one with a multi position blade switch for coil selection the other with on/off switches between the controls. I'm pretty sure you can buy a control plate but they may not have a Sabre one in stock. You'll probably have to order it through a shop which deals with S and T.

[quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1489427650' post='3256837'] [size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]It’s funny the way in which you hear Wals being referenced in terms of the big 3… Mick, Geddy and Justin as if that is the gamut of the Wal sound.[/color][/font][/size] [size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"] [/color][/font][/size] [size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]For me whilst I enjoy Geddy’s late 80s/early 90s sound and the bits of Mick’s fretless I have heard (Japan were never a huge part of my listening list and I can’t honestly hum any tune by Tool) they represent for me only the tiniest corner of what a Wal is capable of. And it’s their ability to sculpt a host of different tonalities which has always been a huge draw for me (fingers arguments notwithstanding).[/color][/font][/size] [size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"] [/color][/font][/size] [size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]Think of other notable Wal users and their tones… Flea on BSSM, Bruce Thomas on Elvis Costello’s “Punch the Clock”, Laurence Cottle with his Big Band, with The Alan Parsons Project or with Black Sabbath, Macca on Flowers in the Dirt or the Light Fantastic Live Album, Martin Kemp with Spandau Ballet, John Illsley with Dire Straits, Percy Jones with Brand X, Jeff Ament with Pearl Jam, Greg Lake on the ELP Black Moon album… all broadly different examples of tones that a Wal is capable of producing.[/color][/font][/size] [size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"] [/color][/font][/size] [size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]Back on topic, though, it was interesting to see what happened with the second hand price of Wal basses in the two or three year hiatus between Pete Stevens finally retiring and Paul Herman restarting production. If I recall the highest I saw a pretty standard Wal model go for was around $9500 dollars (around £7500 at the time – a decade ago now). It will be interesting to see how other luthier brands go when their makers stop making. However, as others have said, I suspect it will also be driven by distinctives around design. Zemaitis basses were already goig to silly prices before Tony Zemaitis. Real Zemaitis guitars and basses are now eye-wateringly expensive. And if any instrument had a distinctive USP they were one.[/color][/font][/size] [size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"] [/color][/font][/size] [size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]At least the future of Wal seems secure for the foreseeable.[/color][/font][/size] [/quote] You didn't mention Alsn Spenner - central to the sound of Roximusic in the late 70s/early 80s and for me, epitomising the Wal sound. As for Wals being thought of as naff in the 90s, well clearly Flea didn't think so - however it's rather like Fenders - definitely considered naff in the early 80s and too thin sounding for most genres. Quite a renaissance over the last decade but remember fashions come and go. Did anyone mention Hofner - definitely immortalised by one of our national treasures!!

The price of brand new US made basses, and especially the better Fenders, Custom Shop, Musicman, and I guess everything else is influenced by changing exchange rates, new CITES requirements and other factors - basically the price is going up and I don't think we've seen what it will settle at. Thus the used price is likely to rise also. This may take them out of reach of some people. I would have though Warwick, Spector and Sadowski basses would continue to be sought after along with G and L and Lakland. You can also see how the bass market is dwarfed by guitars just by looking at the displays in large retail stores.

Certain models and colours of Musicman basses. Wal basses. I fully expect to see the value of old Fenders (indeed the whole vintage thing) to change - the volume of people who currently buy them for nostalgia purposes rather than as musicians are likely reducing. The same demographic change has hit the value of most collectibles from the 40s/50s era. As with antiques, values change with changing tastes and demographics.

[quote name='JamesBass' timestamp='1489014402' post='3253825'] I find you just open the mix up a bit by removing some of the overbearing low frequencies. Especially on the kick. [/quote] Noted - but how about actually turning down the kick - in fact the whole kit - it seems to have only been in recent years that drums have been mixed louder generally. I don't understand why the drums are mixed as three or four 'instruments' and given equal prominence in a mix because it clearly ends up overpowering the music - rather like having four guitars or keyboards. Listen to disco mixes of the late 70s on original 12 in singles - they somehow manage to have prominent bass drum, bass guitar and everything else mixed so that it plays its part. I'm guessing there was no 'fill the entire sonic range by pressing a button' and auto EQ ing - basically losing separation.

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1488878383' post='3252507'] And possibly the original Subs? Sorry, I was also including guitars in this, as I'm pretty sure the Luke was Basswood, and if you think tonewood is a hot potato among bass players don't get guitarists started on the subject!! [/quote] The Subs and early/mid 90s solid colours on SR4 and 5 are poplar (I think the Steve Morse guitar is also). I think body wood and fretboard wood makes a difference (I base this on the fact I have Rays with ash, poplar and alder bodies - but there are lots of other elements which change things a bit) but it's all fairly marginal IMHO. As you say, basswood is fine.

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1488811635' post='3251952'] Nothing wrong with basswood (apart from it looks boring). Music Man use it under solid finishes. [/quote] Slight correction for the uninitiated - basswood is used only on Musicman Bongo basses. I read somewhere that when the bass was being developed it was found to colour the sound least of all tried at prototype stage. That said, and probably concurring with the theory about aesthetics rather than sound, the higher priced limited PDN models often feature different body wood/ trans finish, even on Bongos.

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1488535937' post='3249707'] there's something there about wanting to be yourself etc... for sure, don't be a pushover. But a band is a group of people and that is going to mean discussion and compromise, unless you're all clones and think 100% alike all the time, or you're all hired hands (in which case you'll do as told,, full stop, and smile for the cameras if they want you to ). I think many hobbyist musicians (like myself) can get a little too precious about their gear and what they play. I've seen this coming from insecurity in some cases, from sheer bloodymindedness in others, selfishness... and a few times because their artistic integrity was superior. In other words: I've never experienced that attitude to be a positive thing. Just like being a pushover will also not take you to anywhere nice either. It's a balancing act. You have your preferences. Others have other preferences. Together you push and pull and discuss and sometimes even argue, why not? an argument does not have to be something where someone is trying to subjugate another... in the end, if you have sufficient in common, you end up moving in a direction you've collectively decided, and carry on. You need to be flexible. And balanced. Leave your egos in a pocket of the gig bag, locked. You'll have more fun. [/quote] I tend to agree with this, in all aspects except instruments and equipment (unless there's a particular sound issue). My personal experience over 40 odd yrs as a semi pro has been this issue crops up rarely but when it does it's usually a portent for other 'controlling' behaviour - it's also notable that most of the people doing it I have encountered have been technically weaker or indeed the weakest musician in the group, and simply ill informed or wrong (not just when commenting on fellow musician's instruments or sound either). You have to decide whether you can tolerate it or not. I have known people asking others to have their guitars resprayed because it doesn't match the band (in one case the self styled leader had an aversion to a certain colour!!). The bottom line is you do come across controlling and irrational behaviour in music groups but thankfully it's not a regular issue in my experience. A high turnover of musicians is often a pointer to potential issues!!

Also the Reflex and 25th Anniversay have ceramic I think - only available used - there's a 25th in the for sale now. There is also the Bongo but that does not really get a Stingray sound. All of these are few and far between to try out.

I forgot to mention - the Classic and Old Smoothie basses have lacqured necks (not at all sticky though) whereas the standard Stingrays have oil and wax finished necks.

Not really - they're 2 band so plenty of bass and treble boost available - remember you can get a quite different sound dependent on whereabouts between the neck and bridge you pluck the strings. I usually set mine full bass and almost full treble - roll back the EQ to accentuate the mids if you want a staccato sort of sound. Worth trying with the mutes rolled on as well. I suggest you try the amp set flat initially - remember if you scoop the amp a lot (or use pre set amp filters like the Markbass, it's possible to overemphasise the bass (say on E and A strings). They're generally very good, consistent basses with few problems. I hope it goes well.

There's some confusion in this thread though quite a lot of info is right. SR4 is just an abbreviation for Stingray 4 - you can guess what an SR5 is. New current spec Stingray 4 string comes in a variety of colours, a hard shell case, can be had with rosewood, maple or pau ferro (Fretless) fingerboard, and with 2 or 3 band EQs and can be had in bolt on or neck through configuration or with H, HH or HS pick up configurations. The bolt on can be had with a narrower neck profile (ordered as an SLO special), they all have ash bodies (occasionally a PDN limited edition model may have a different wood such as alder). There are other models including the classic Stingray (2 band 4 or 5 string with highly figured neck wood, and other retro features like string through body bridge with mutes) - there's also an old smoothie version of the classic with a different pick up and other features. The classic, old smoothie and neck thru are higher priced than the normal model (because they have higher grade materials and features) - this may be why a 2 band appears more expensive than a 3 band - but possibly comparing standard model with classic. The normal model in 2 band form should be slightly cheaper - natural body colour commands a mark up on price also. A few years back, the standard SR4 (i.e not classic etc) was available from some dealers for £999 in red, white or blue, with 2 band EQ and a gig bag - there may be one or two still around - this was back when the economy and particularly dollar v pound values hadn't changed greatly so if you find one, it will be a bargain (and likely more than £999 now). The poplar body won't make much difference and was used in the early 90s for all of the solid colour SR4s and SR5s. Maybe slightly mellower than ash at the extremes. The US Sub Stingrays also have poplar bodies. You are right there is a vast range of prices but if you order new they will be reasonably similar - used prices vary greatly - some of the more unusual specs and colours sometimes command much higher prices - depends if people want them (basic supply and demand).

The two humbuckers on the Warwick $$ seem to be side by side around the centre of the section between the bridge and the end of the neck. In fact the neck pick up looks to be in the same position as the MM neck pick up. The Musicman bridge pick up is in the usual place, whilst the neck humbucker is placed about the width of a humbucker closer to the neck than the bridge one. Remember the Musicman is based on coil selection and certainly on my Classic Sabre, selecting the inner cool of the neck humbucker produces a good Precision sound. The outer neck humbucker coil is around the Jazz neck position and there are settings where you can have neck and bridge single coils to approximate Jazz sounds. I don't have a Warwick $$ but have played one and I think the bridge humbucker is in the gap between the pick ups on the Musicman one. However the bass designs are quite different - the Musicman seems to aim to give you the single pick up MM sound but adding a few other alternatives which it achieves - my HH Ray and Sabre are the most versatile basses I have. The G and L seems to have the bridge pick up in a similar position to the MM one but the neck pick up closer to the bridge one. Once again a different take on it. The Gibson and Fender Telecaster bass (later version) have humbuckers right next to the end of the neck. Yet another approach!!

I haven't played one but heard Dave Marks play one once - it basically adds some quite nice string sound and an airy sort of acoustic sound. I'm afraid you will have to try one to appreciate it. I have a Bongo 5HHp however and use the piezo almost permanently mixed about 70% magnetic and 30% piezo - it basically adds an element of warmth to the sound. Mixed 100% the piezo makes a rather nice and unique sound when playing hip hopesque R and B - especially down low and on the B string. I understand they're pretty good on a Musicman Fretless though I've never tried one. I think the Dave Marks Stingray demo was Fretless possibly and the string sound was reminiscent of an upright. They're pretty few and far between at all let alone on a Fretless - best of luck tracking one down 😕

[quote name='LewisK1975' timestamp='1487945950' post='3244440'] Third! [/quote] Only to be exceeded by manhandling a Hammond B3 up fire escape stairs - followed by the Leslie unit 😯 - definitely a four man (burly) job - who says bass players have the heaviest gear!!!

Bloo*y hell you do hear about/come across some finicky people in bands from time to time!! I do like the guy who writes for a Precision bass - which one would that be, JJ Burnel on Peaches by the Stranglers, James Jamerson or maybe it was Roger Waters when he sounded like he was desperately after a Chris Squire Rickenbacker sound. Total nonsense of course as was proved with the changes in basses!! I think the points about people being controlling is well made - and they are best avoided because unless you're incredibly thick skinned and can ignore it, it will eventually lead to great stress or fisticuffs or something similar. I played for quite a while in a band where the self styled leader had some sort of OCD syndrome and was want to pick on individuals for instance requiring them to line their amps up exactly together, and against the back wall of the stage or room - and yes I did refuse as my rig needed space for the porting to work - this was the tip of the iceberg though as lead colours, strap positions and colours, music stands, drinks holders, set lists, drum stick holders you name it came in for treatment over an extended period - it was both funny and exasperating all at once. I would have great worries about people telling me what bass to play because it would probably be an indication of a general approach and in any case, most times I've encountered this type of thing, the person concerned is completely wrong anyway, and basically lacking in knowledge in the art of bass. It sounds like Lee Sklar has had that experience - the producer switch lol!! I also read an interview by Marcus Miller where he talked of using the bridge pick up on his jazz but being told to turn it off because of the supposed inherent hum - which he did and then turned it back on whilst they weren't looking. I like the idea of encouraging these guys to buy you a bass - do you reckon they'll have a view on the strings to use, and amp and speakers? I'm afraid I'd be off in a shot but that's just me!! You'll find people with ill informed prejudices and fixed viewpoints on things throughout life - it doesn't mean you have to follow them though.

I think you're doing Gibson a disservice here. It doesn't look that different than a Fender Dimension bass and I don't recall anyone complaining that was generic, derivative or even a copy of an EBMM - which it clearly is in some ways 18v electronics screams Bongo but that is in a whole different league. Remember two of the greatest bass players to walk the planet, Jack Bruce and Andy Fraser both made their names with the thicker sounding EB3 (Precision and Jazz were thin sounding things by comparison) and although weren't famous for putting generic bass on pop records (as session players) but providing bass on some of most jammers, rockers, bluesers and general muso's favourite songs - certainly the bass heavy ones. So give em a break guys. I'm no Gibson fan but I do worry that players on forums are too tied to the ubiquitous Fender models which are ok, adequate or even great in very skilled hands - but remember the main reason they waned in popularity for some players until the 'retro is king' era starting in the mid 90s - players were saying 'ok I can play Schooldays but it sounds crap on my Precision'. Not sure how it would sound on this Gibson either but it looks to have a whole lot more capability for varied sounds than a P bass to me (for those who want to play a bit more than generic vanilla bass, that is). I'll try one if I see one!! I love Fenders btw - just haven't believed they were the last word in bass since the late 70s!!