drTStingray

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1476857516' post='3157761'] Why would a P need a blend? I thought the stacked knobs on the P Retro did the following: 1: Top - volume (pull for active mode) Bottom - passive tone 2: Top - mid boost one way,bass&treble boost the other way Bottom - variable frequency [/quote] I would have counted a stack knob as the equivalent of two controls (i.e. two knobs ....... oo er missus).

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1476816624' post='3157573'] That post could be the very definition of false equivalence. [/quote] FWIW not really - the development of active basses (from early 70s) was a direct result of striving for better sound reproduction and mirrored other contemporary developments in the same field (SS amps, hi fi systems, better recording techniques. Bear in mind it was quite a quick gestation to get to the Wal type of bass with filter preamp (also Alembic) and for the mass market, the Stingray.

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1476816624' post='3157573'] That post could be the very definition of false equivalence. [/quote] Do you mean before or after I corrected the Apple spell gremlins? Damned technology eh lol!! 😉

[quote name='Wolverinebass' timestamp='1476809086' post='3157472'] That's an evil bass. Sounded fantastic as well, hence why I was curious as I was sure that model was passive and it didn't sound like one as it had much more snap. It still weighed enough to anchor the QE2 though. Ha! [/quote] Whilst this doesn't help the OP with their query I am puzzled by this issue. I've been used to having more than one tone control on music equipment like amps, record/tape/CD players since the late 60s/early 70s. Treble and bass controls don't cause me a problem though the more you add (eg pick up volume/blend; mid; selection of mid frequency etc etc) the more there is potentially to think about and confuse, I'd agree. The idea of a bass guitar with only one tone control came about in the 50s and 60s at a time when most people listened to music on radios or record players which usually had...... one or no tone controls. Music was also recorded using minimal multi tracking and multiple bouncing of tracks. However, multi track recording, stereo sound reproduction, sophisticated hi fi systems, tape, CD and micro processors all followed this often in the quest for ever improved reproduction and quite simply the world has been revolutionised. So do you guys who prefer one tone control, with all the limitations that brings, hanker after 1950s style recording, listening to music on early transistor radios and Dansette record players also, because bass and treble controls for instance, for listening to music, are more confusing? I just find this whole issue quite curious. I do accept that some passive tone controls are well engineered and actually quite useful - some appear archaic to me however.

Back on the 70s, my recollection of bass amplification was it didn't produce a sound anything like recorded sound, and the sound from valve amps started to break up into distortion long before they were running at full power, such that the bass sound disappeared into the mix. Some bass players, particularly those requiring a cleaner sound at higher volumes (typically an R and B type sound) transferred over to high powered SS amps like Acoustic (John Paul Jones was an example). Leo Lyons was also quoted as saying using an Acoustic stack was not too popular with the rest of the band because of its power (and presumably its ability to stay clean at high volume). I used to have problems in the 70s competing with loud drummers and guitarists and keeping the bass sound I wanted. My Acoustic 370 on the other hand could drown the band with clean bass sound. So I don't know the answer to the question raised by the OP but anecdotally modern class D power and lightweight cabinets appear to me to have the ability to offer clean bass sound at high volume without all of the drawbacks of 70s equipment (weight being a big factor).

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1476370153' post='3153726'] I've never read it (sorry!)...was put off by the disparaging comments over journalistic accuracy and editorial content a while back. (I still get (US) Bass Player, but that's turning into a catalogue with each passing month; September '16, 37 pages of adverts in a 68 page magazine!) [/quote] And an article on lots of little class D amplifiers which didn't include Mark Bass.... a bit like having a round up article on basses not including Fender!! Back to BGM - I have it and it's US cousin and think they're a wonderful monthly read or scan read - I have them on order from my friendly local corner shop newsagent, whose business I like to support, so I pick them up with my Saturday morning paper. It's quite funny, when available they come out from under the counter in a plain brown paper bag........ I occasionally pick up on a theory (BGM) or transcription article (bass player) - I've learned some quite complex stuff from these over the years - and there's even an article written by one of the members here which is about this very forum!

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1476435172' post='3154202'] The other side to this, I guess, is if you go into Gak and buy a bass. They offer you the box and you, as you're buying a gig-bag too perhaps, say, "No thanks". Do they then charge a fee for box disposal? After all, it will cost them to have Clearway come and take their cardboard from round the back. I can't imagine that happening. So, now't wrong with recouping some dosh from those that want them if you ask me. [/quote] They should be building any overhead costs into their pricing already. I suspect this is simply extra bunce for them - if you get the original shipping box for your bass, certainly with Musicman, it has the data panel with factory build date, serial number etc so is of interest to some people. I don't generally sell basses so I've recycled the boxes I've had but kept the data panel (call me mr OCD lol 😀 )

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1476428864' post='3154131'] I don't agree with the argument that the box belongs to the person that buys the item. Does that mean we all own a share of the cartons that strings, cables etc. are delivered in? [/quote] I think it's a different matter if you ordered the bass through them as I have before now. They would normally ship the instrument in the shipping box to you - but if you collect from the shop you should have the shipping box offered because it is technically yours. In the same way if you bought an effect from stock you'd expect to be given the effect box. So there's the answer - order a new bass from them 😏 And get your shipping boxes like that!

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1476313203' post='3153344'] Unless I'm mistaken, you did order a Smoothie didn't you? If so, have you had any word yet? They seem to be trickling out now. [/quote] Yes I did - I've been told mid October but haven't heard any more (that is the third date I've been given)! Have you got yours yet?

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1476111002' post='3151390'] After checking out their price tags... I think the farther I am from further Wal contact, the better [/quote] Whatever you do don't play one - if you like Stingrays you'll be hooked........ I'm waiting till they can increase their profit from the favourable export rate to the US, and recycle funds into lowering the price for us UK guys, post Brexit 😏 Lol - strolls into the distance to the strains of Rule Brittania!!! Seriously though, they're awesome and I badly want one!!

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1476022392' post='3150482'] I've recently seen a Musicman Caprice (a 4 string passive bass) for £1900. £1900!!!! I know this is insanely high as I've been following or EBMM gear for years. Initial RRP (shops can discount this) was £1650. 6 months or so back. I am well and truly out of the new bass / guitar / amp / cab game until the prices sort themselves out. I am certain most sane people will be doing the same. Brexit has ruined the market IMO. [/quote] The pound was worth $1.27 last week - 10 yrs ago it was $2.00. Similar issue with the Euro now. In respect of the new Musicman Cutlass and Caprice, these basses have been receiving rave reviews in the US and described as quality on a par with boutique manufacturers and Fender CS - this doesn't surprise me at all and in that context, would be worth that price, particularly in the context of the Sadowski Metro mentioned.

Level 42 in a couple of weeks - at the Apollo - can't wait. This will be the 4th time I've seen them - 1981 (Birmingham Uni Union Bar); 1990 (Ipswich Regent); 2007 (Eastbourne Conquest) and 2016 (Apollo London) - once per decade!!

[quote name='mikeswals' timestamp='1472075173' post='3118379'] I dig shedua, especially with fairly heavy ribboning: And if you like pink, then can't see why you wouldn't like violet either! [IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f224/Negative7bass/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160614_152528_zpsblqmbxce.jpg[/IMG] [/quote] That purple 5 string's nice. However I think a shedua faced mk1 with ribboning is what I will eventually go for. I have a Musicman Old Smoothie on order which I've got to pay for the majority of when it finally arrives - so the Wal will have to wait awile!! The articles on the JG series are very interesting - one of my main reasons for interest in Wal basses are Percy Jones, but more particularly Alan Spenner who is probably one of my biggest influences in bass playing - I see his JG listed and appears to be one of the earliest. Can be heard on Roxymusic songs - fabulous. I was lucky enough to see him play the Wal in a Kokomo reunion gig at the Roundhouse at the end of the 70s - the bass sound and playing was fabulous!! Anyhow, maybe later next year for the Wal order...

Superb. Sorry I missed this - and all those Wals as well!!

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1475103213' post='3143158'] Is the shop still there? [/quote] My recollection is that no music stores which were in operation in Birmingham in the 1970s still exist and I suspect few if any in the UK do.... Listening to you guys talking about the Squier v Encore is interesting - I did exactly the opposite and bought my lad the Encore set up for several reasons - firstly it didn't sound any different, secondly it was cheaper, thirdly I knew that if he decided he didn't want to continue with it he could sell it, fourthly if he did make a go of it he'd probably want a shiny new expensive bass, and finally I knew the shop owner who belly ached a lot about one of the 'name' manufacturers forcing him to stock all sorts of extraneous instruments which would clutter his shop for months if not years in order to sell their starter kits - effectively using his showroom as a parking lot for its over-production of instruments - hmmm I had some sympathy with him, having sold me various clarinets and the like for my daughter and seen his shop cluttered with this stuff!! I can quite imagine the shop probably made more money from their own starter kit sale than the Squier. He still has the Encore, which covers his desire for that sort of sound but progressed to Ibanez and Musicman for higher quality instruments. A different perspective perhaps but there you go.

[quote name='Machines' timestamp='1474642135' post='3139540'] Fender P Fender J Musicman Stingray MUSICMAN SABRE G&L L-2000 MUSICMAN CUTLASS [/quote] This indeed is sort of correct (I've added a bit) - but it's a little more complex because as Stingray Pete has said, the twin pick up Deluxe version of the Stingray (Musicman Sabre) appeared in 1978. At that time the firm Musicman was contracting CLF (the factory) to build instruments and amps for them - they were in ongoing dispute about instruments not passing quality control and being returned for correction - it culminated in a whole batch of necks being made with incorrectly shaped truss rods - Musicman sacked the factory CLF and engaged Grover Jackson to build instruments - they (Musicman) eventually went out of business until Ernie Ball bought the company in 1984. CLF spookily started making G and L instruments around the same time, the initial bass, the L2000 being very similar indeed to the Musicman Sabre. You don't need to ask me which is my favourite of the list - the Stingray (was afflicted in about 1978/79). I have tried an ASAT and was impressed with feel, look and sound. They are very very good value for money, as are Stingrays. I have yet to play a pre EB Cutlass (graphite necked Stingray) - the Sabre version (Cutlass 2) must be even more awesome...

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1474666529' post='3139813'] While nostalgia and rose-tinted glasses are a wonderful thing, I doubt with all my heart that they were [b][i]legal[/i][/b] tender, no matter how seriously you meant it, There's only very few providers that have ever produced[i] legal tender[/i] in recent years (I've worked at one of them) and a printer making Beatles collectors cards has never been one of them. [/quote] Indeed they are - and I certainly hadn't appreciated you were coming from a professional angle Big Stu - I've corrected the original post which of course should have said 'were considered by some 8 yr olds as legal tender' 😊 Were you a member of the banking, minting or bank note printing industry?

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1474641842' post='3139534'] I think the dark blue fold out was 1990(?). The 1970 folder - which I never got - looked like this: [/quote] Wahay - some great memorabilia on show here. I have one of those somewhere as well - pretty sure it's incomplete though! I do, however recall 1970 being the first World Cup (of far too many groan.....) with an expectation of England being capable of winning - 1966 was simply a bolt out of the blue. And at least there were some decent excuses back then - as you say Mr JF nobbling G Banks, R Moore etc etc - these days the average world class football star is pictured in Tatler or wherever sunning and cavorting on a foreign beach the day after England get beaten before the knockout stage even starts.

[quote name='tredders' timestamp='1474573081' post='3138973'] I had a Big Al a few years ago. Great looking bass and massively versatile, but it was wasted on me - I just set it to sound like a Precision and I already had several of those! I wasn't keen on the neck - a little chunky for me, but plenty of people rave about the necks on these. Looks ace in that colour though! [/quote] The neck on a Big Al is similar to that from a US Sterling - I.e Fender Jazz size - I'm surprised you found it chunky compared to your Precisions 🤔 I agree it looks ace in sky blue though - suits it well.

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1474572792' post='3138967'] This doesn't surprise me - based entirely on this....... Hey Blue!! The "Dr" is chasing after your Sweeping Flashing BS Over-statement Of The Year crown. [/quote] The only problem, Big Stu is it's true - and they got banned from the playground at my school owing to disputes and the like. No doubt you wouldn't believe it because it wasn't in the NME or some other font of all pop history. It's not unusual for crazes of collectables to cause problems at schools - in my kid's day it was Pannini premier league stickers and ninja turtles stuff - in mine it was Beatles merchandise, particularly the picture cards sold with a piece of bubble gum - there were a set of 50 and it was nigh on impossible to get the lot - which of course is what everybody was after!

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1474522472' post='3138509'] Exactly, just like The Beatles would have been to an eight year old kid, but there's been another 50+ years of fading memories about that concert to enhance, enlarge and exaggerate since way back then. [/quote] I'm with Blue - I think you do get a different perspective from real life experience - however where I disagree with him is how much that counts for - I'm certainly of the view you didn't have to be there - however being there gives an understanding latter day commentators are unlikely to comprehend. I was 8 or 9 when I experienced Beatlemania at primary school and I wasn't joking when I said Beatles cards were (considered by many primary school kids) to be legal tender - especially the rare ones. I'm talking 63-64 period. There were other bands and artists at the time but the Beatles continued for several years at the same level of public consciousness - which other band had a live screening of a performance of a single release by satellite on prime time tv at a time when there were only just about three tv channels in the UK? Certainly not Mick and Co!! Their influence on that generation was profound and subsequent generations. It's really quite daft comparing their influence with others - of course there have been loads of influential artists, some more than others - but comparing with the Beatles, whether you like them or not, is really a bit silly (unless you ignore history of course).

I don't think I know a musician personally who has not attempted to play a version of Come Together - I'm guessing many people on this forum will have done despite some of the particular demographics!!

[quote name='Funky Dunky' timestamp='1474397240' post='3137738'] Tell you what - they've done a helluva job. Sounds like legit bass to me. [/quote] Agreed - I was astonished when I got involved in a past thread on here and was told it was a keyboard. It came on the radio the other day and I listened to it very carefully. Sounds like a Fretless bass to me. I liken the sound to a slightly warmer fatter version of the sound on the theme to the TV show Bergerac (which sounds like a Fretless Wal or Musicman to me). Even the slides and vibrato.

[quote name='Burrito' timestamp='1474401526' post='3137784'] Is this a trick question because if so I'll pitch for Elvis [/quote] Costello? Nah (the NME may have said so for a few weeks in the late 70s). The problem with anyone using the NME as source material is that by the late 70s many people viewed it as a kids paper - which overlooked the fact that the kids of the 60s had matured into an album buying public and the industry expanded out to take account - before the 60s/70s this didn't happen to the same degree. So as a result punk gets hyped up etc etc - the real music fans read the more grown up Melody Maker at the back of which were adverts for used Fender Precisions, Marshall stacks and the like. The NME appealed to a certain demographic as did Jackie magazine - the fact modern day researchers over use it is a barometer tells a misleading story.

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1474399867' post='3137762'] Reggae was pretty strong in clubs in this country before Bob Marley came along. Trojan records were trotting out Records in a big way, although it was all very commercial. Was it real hardcore ? Not really. But it certainly introduced folks to Reggae. [/quote] Back in the 60s reggae (and other versions of it) was big in the Caribbean. The likes of Trojan introduced it here. So in the late 60s the albums under the arm of skinheads and townies were Motown Chartbusters volume 3, Tighten Up Volume 3 etc etc. So groups of white people dug this music. I also recall watching an interview with Chris of Island records who was instrumental in bringing some reggae to the UK - their biggest worry was the bass being too loud and prominent for western tastes........... now there's a thing 🤔 I had the pleasure of working with a black Jamaican group in the 70s and I can tell you their influences were all reggae and soul (the guitarist was also a Hendrix/Isleys fan). I don't recall them being that into Marley to be honest - though I do remember many white people liking him/them if you include the Wailers. Maybe they introduced an audience to reggae though many white people only know the famous stuff - White musicians often play Marley unauthenticly - missing the point in my mind. The Beatles were a teen sensation from 63 onwards (I was about 9 back then) and I mean a sensation - Beatles Bubble gum picture cards were legal tender in the playground and unlike crazes which followed (Bay City Rollers etc) managed to mature musically as their audience did and thus continued to be a phenomena and central to UK if not world culture for a number of years and remain a national treasure. So I've voted Beatles - not least because soulster Billy Preston played with them and I know my70s black band mates knew all the famous songs. Stones were a different animal completely - not a teen craze IMHO (though not to say some 60s teen ladies weren't affected). They were a harder R and B based outfit than the Beatles and to me as a kid were not involved in teen/kids merchandise, more the occasional sultry and rather strange totp performances were about all the exposure there'd be (Radio 1 didn't start till 1967 remember). I started to dig them as I got older but some of the other bands like Fleetwood Mac sounded like better musicians to me (sorry Keef and Co - I love the groove though) - standard of musicianship was always important for non classical/jazz musicians back then - the establishment poo poo'd pop and rock or anything else as mindless nonsense played by idiots (or mimed because sessions musicians were the real deal) - even as long ago as the first Shadows album, there was a track (Nivram) setting out to prove they could all play - and in a very twee late 50s way this is explained on the sleeve notes!!! Marley arrived to most in the mid 70s (during a period dominated by albums from Wings, Lennon, Genesis, Allman Brothers, Eagles etc). The Jamaican community in say, Handsworth (Birmigham) where I grew up, or Notting Hill started in the 50s and was large by the 60s. Look to bands like Inner Circle, Steel Pulse for young UK Caribbean based reggae of the mid/late 70s. Reggae was well and truly here before Marley. The Beatles changed everything. Sorry for the long post but I was a bit pissed off by the Beatles v xyz threads and their contents - just remember amongst other things John Lennon's off the cuff utterance which was televised caused burning of Beatles paraphernalia in the US in the mid 60s, such was their power of communication and the affront felt by evangelists - of course John was right they did have a bigger worldwide audience.......