drTStingray

[quote name='Marc S' timestamp='1469459662' post='3098472'] As a matter of interest (well, to some anyway) when JV's first came out, and were around £200 new, I bought a US Fender P, which was a 1970's model, and just a little over £200. Although a JV might be around £600 now, I guess that 70's Fender could fetch £1500 - £1800, Which is an even bigger escalation in price. [/quote] Back in 1973/4, a brand new natural/maple. Precision was on sale for £252 in my local music shop. Remember in the mid to late 70s (after the oil crisis) inflation was running in double figures - perhaps as much as 15% per annum. There are several different issues here - 1) comparatively few people wanted new Fender basses in the early 80s as the fashion was for keyboard bass or fat bass guitar sounds such as Wal, Musicman, Ibanez Musician - the latter were in the $800 plus price range new at the beginning of the 80s. 2) thus the price of both new and secondhand Fenders at this time reflected this. 3) critics panned these ranges back at that time. 4) Squiers really were starter basses - thus with an amp there may have been more of a market for these (at £200). As stated they competed with the likes of Antoria etc. 5) No matter how comparatively good these Japanese built Fenders and Squiers are, it's a matter of some surprise that 80s models fetch such high prices now, and particularly for the starter model Squiers, say compared to instruments which were desirable at the time - such as an Ibanez Musician which is altogether a superior instrument with far greater flexibility. A good Musician would probably cost around £600, on a par with a Squier - I suspect market price is less to do quality and more to do with other factors entirely, such as brand hype and vintage factors being talked up. At the end of the day people will pay what they consider a market price for these instruments - however I can't help thinking these are over-priced/ valued.

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1471903179' post='3116925'] There must be a million examples of technical mastery that leads to an underwhelming end result. [/quote] Like Chopin, Beethoven, Pastorius, Grepelli etc etc ad infinitum? The fact is we all have differing musical tastes. I personally can find the 'bass virtuoso' stuff a little tiresome after a while but that's just me - I also get bored with rockabilly slap bass after about three songs. However I have tickets to see Level 42 for the fourth time in 3 and a bit decades and am thoroughly looking forward to it - as much for the overall music experience as for the bass, electrifying though that will be. I don't think all complex or techinically difficult music can be dismissed as self indulgence. There are those around who think that bass should be felt but not heard, played on an old P bass (though God knows why as one thump is very similar to another) through an Ampeg - there are also those who think Bob Dylan and Neil Young are great - I'm afraid I disagree entirely and could find loads of well reasoned arguments to justify my view - however I think it's better to just agree to differ as who am I to dismiss other people's tastes? Back in the late 60s me and my mid teen school mates went to loads of gigs of very famous bands of the era - I gained a little notoriety amongst them for the sacriligious act of falling asleep in a Pink Floyd concert - the epitome of cool 'underground' music at the time. This was pre Meddle and Dark Side of the Moon, I was tired, and the extended jams within songs seemed often to consist of combinations Waters, Wright and Gilmour making wierd and wacky noises by twiddling knobs on embryonic synthesisers and playing mellotrons (keyboards using taped sounds) - mellotrons notoriously went out of tune owing to heat!! Yes it was abysmal folks and I disagreed vehemently with those of my mates who thought otherwise!! When Meddle came out I became a Floyd fan again. I just concede all people have a range of tastes - sometimes they match yours, sometimes they don't. I like Wooton's version of Teen Town with the double thumbed slap solo by the way, slightly better than Marcus Miller's version but still prefer Jaco and Weather Report's. Im curious what it might sound like played on a Wal!!

[quote name='TommyK' timestamp='1471762167' post='3115556'] Cobalts are much brighter like worn in rounds, also much higher tension. Like it shocked me how high! [/quote] Crikey what bass and what gauge of EB Cobalts did you use? I've got a set on my Stingray fretless and tension wise they're almost identical to the standard TIs on my Stingray Classic. OP EB Cobalts would be a good flatwound to try. Can be quite bright, but also thumpy and very nice tone, and nice and smooth to the hands.

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1471874443' post='3116575'] Or go Stingray with SLO (Sterling) neck [/quote] Stingray has one less fret? These SLOs are v rare.

I wouldn't be without a Stingray - fabulous in either 2 or 3 band EQ form for me, fretless, fretted maple or fretted rosewood take your pick. The Sterling has ceramic pick up magnets - as well as the narrower neck, smaller body, you get a series/single coil/parallel capability with the H version - the parallel sound is close to a Stingray sound but can be more aggressive if desired - the slap sound is a monster. Series gives more mids, single coil gives a bridge single coil sound. Great playability, great sound with generally top notch and robust build quality. The necks on EBMM basses are so playable, whether you have huge or small fingers. There's no electronic hum in any mode with these basses (except pre 92 ish SR5). The answer is definitely yes.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1471885036' post='3116714'] Ah but it's got £18 quids worth of stacked pots on it,that must be worth the near USA asking price surely? [/quote] And to think I nearly bought one.....

Another one I recall is pre EQ or post EQ DI.....

[quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1471880338' post='3116652'] Music stands [/quote] I thought that one was a 'not flavour of the month'! Definitely not considered rock and roll or in the least cool by some (if I remember the gist of the thread accurately)!! The thread definitely was flavour of the month though.

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1471865169' post='3116435'] That was BS. They asked for x orders in a month. When I was subsequently in the market for a 5 string, if a Stingray with 19mm spacing were available I'd have got one (I went Lakland instead). But that particular month was not the right one for me to order anything. The whole thing was designed to fail, to give EB the opportunity to say "look, I tried, there were no takers". Which I don't get since they do not need to justify to anybody what they choose to produce or not. But the whole EBMM world is a... complex one, to say the least [/quote] Well it's unfortunate you didn't manage to get one as the SR5 is a great bass - I used mine Saturday for the first time in ages and I was reminded how good it is. They did indeed set a months order window limit and required 50 orders - presumably the usual deposit arrangement and 3+ months wait for the instrument - I guess to justify the cost of the tooling - however it was in response to hundreds of posts either clamouring for production of such an instrument or even suggesting the existing instrument shouldn't have the narrower spacing. So unfortunately for those who wanted one it didn't happen. I viewed it as a company testing the market to see if there really was sufficient demand - there was a mass of vitriol flung by certain individuals IIRC but hey ho, it's the Internet.

[quote name='Machines' timestamp='1471868792' post='3116494'] It's generally a small number of people making a lot of posts that make something seem very popular, but really it's just a hot topic. This can give a different perception to reality. [/quote] That is very eloquently put and much better than I did - you mean hype?

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1471864409' post='3116419'] Fenders have been flavor of the month every month for 60 years... except a brief period in the 80s when slapping the sh*t out of your bass became popular.... [/quote] Aherm - I thought that was the decade or so when those pesky keyboards players got all above themselves and replaced lots of guitarists and bass players.... Seriously though - Fender basses weren't at all popular in the UK in the 50s (fairly unobtainable), or even 60s - maybe for a part of the 70s, definitely not the 80s - only really during some parts of the last 10 yrs or so.

Any topic in bass guitars with over 500 posts usually based on a Fender product or facsimile thereof, but if you can be bothered to read the whole thread, the ratio of basses bought to thread replies is less than 1 in 50. Classic examples I can think of:- 1) 2016 - Fender Flea Jazz Bass (Mexican with a price supplement over standard) 2) 2015 - Sire (not Squier) Jazz bass (low cost active bass endorsed by Marcus Miller) 3) Limelight Fender - not sure when this started but possibly 2014. 4) Talkbass - 19 mm string spacing MM SR5 - however that one was about 800 posts and 5 orders placed so the proposal was canned. Goes to show how much hot air can float around a forum!! I'm with everyone else on class D - fabulous creation - proper bass guitar sound without the hernia created carrying totally unnecessary weight and technology outdated 40 + years ago.

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1471432909' post='3112997'] Cobalt flats! How did you like them? I'm still enjoying what they do in my ATK300. I'm not much of a flat string person, but I like that MM-type bridge pickup fingerstyle 'burp' I get with them, fat and smooth. [/quote] You know you need to put some on a Stingray!!! Got them on my 93 fretless Ray - coincidentally used for a 'lounge jazz quartet at a wedding as background music where no-one minds or watches so long as you play your set times' - hmm 35 songs from chord charts provided by the piano player - and clearly written to demonstrate his leaning towards Bill Evans circa 1960 - I.e one chord every two beats per song with some very spacious, pleasant sounding but ludicrous extensions!! Anyway I got through it (only one pre run through) AND the Ray sounded great with its Cobalt flats - singing beautifully when required or thumping great particularly when I lost the plot on some of the more complex patterns. And no battery problems - I knew exactly when the bass had a new one fitted (and the Sabre I took as a back up - aherm in case my head was in danger of exploding owing to playing fretless and trying to read the charts - I used it for three songs!!)

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1471378260' post='3112698'] I seem to remember Ernie Ball flats being quite stiff too. [/quote] There are a range of types of EB flats - I only have experience of Group 4 or Slinky flats (Cobalts) - they both have relatively low tension (for flats) on a par with TIs or equivalent Round wounds. I agree re Roto (Jazz Bass version were the ones I used) arm wrestler territory in my experience - tried them on a five string...... not for very long it has to be said!!

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1470297176' post='3104788'] Isn't that a repair with a bit of incidental cleaning while the box was open? The problem was caused by the coat, not a lack of 'servicing'. Mechanical things are very different to solid state electronics, parts wear out and/or go out of adjustment. That doesn't happen with electronics. [/quote] I'd agree i wouldn't have taken the amp there had it not gone pop, but to say they simply vacuumed it and cleaned the controls is quite wrong - they checked out a load of other stuff and replaced other parts - it got a completely new output stage (the bit the coat-based overheating fried) - at the end he tested it with an old Precision bass - basically well over an hour's work and a very affable guy as well. I said don't worry too much I'll be using a proper bass when I get home lol 😏 As for electronic parts, I think they can go faulty, and the electrical linkages can go wrong owing to vibration and goodness knows what else (being dropped for instance). So solder joints etc etc. I'm sure some people can deal with their own amps but I'm afraid where mains is concerned I let someone else better qualified than me fiddle with equipment - I don't do anything beyond the plug!! I don't buy the idea that electrical components don't degenerate or wear out at times. One of the reasons vintage basses sometimes sound more mellow 😉 However in my case I wanted the whole amp checked out so was glad Ashdown offered such a great service - the guy did my amp in between building prototypes - very interesting stuff. I couldn't give them a higher recommendation (though my back prefers the LM3 I use for gigs these days).

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1470157407' post='3103712'] I`m not sure on this at all, it makes no difference to me, an instrument can be gigged extensively and kept in perfect condition, or never gigged and never looked after at home. It`s the condition, playability, and all parts working that matter to me. [/quote] I think the issue is there is far less chance of an instrument which has been used for home use only being immaculate than one that's been gigged. Take my LM3 as an example - it has quite a few scratches, accumulated over several hundred gigs - if it had sat at home it would have none. I guess the analogy (well back in the 60s and 70s) would be sports cars or sports variants of saloons being advertised as never raced or rallied - i.e. Not thrashed to within an inch of their life. I'm lucky enough to have bought such a bass (though I only found out after I'd bought it that the guy hadn't used it for years) - a pristine 25 yr old Stingray fretless - one of those instances where luck is really on your side!

I guess I fall into this category of having an amp (Ashdown ABM) that has been manufacturer serviced. It first happened because I blew it up - left a coat sat over the top of it and it overheated and went pop - Guy at Ashdown, an excellent chap, serviced it while I sat and watched and replaced the faulty bits - he tested all the rest and vacuumed it and cleaned the pots - very thorough job. This was several years back - I'm going to take it again soon for a service as the valve circuit is a bit noisy and I would like it to all work perfectly. They use OE parts from the stores. It was also quite an eye opener whilst there as they were doing stuff for endorsees at the time including a band I hadn't heard of at the time - Biffy Clyro. Perhaps it's like servicing a car - in my mind it's far better to have one serviced and certainly if you're buying a used one the letters fsh in the description are almost obligatory - even better by the manufacturer's dealer etc. Similarly Rolex watches - if they're not serviced by an authorised outlet it invalidates the warranty.

I was predicting and expecting a 20% hike in the price of US built equipment to match the currency change - I also predict it will no longer be cheaper to buy stuff from Thomann for similar reasons in relation to the Euro. As someone in the process of buying an American bass I'm a bit pissed off. As for why the exchange rate bombed in the last few weeks, then I really couldn't say, with my politically correct hat, why that is....but with my real life hat on its plainly obvious to anyone other than those in denial or challenged in some way why. I thought this was a bass guitar forum so if the populace can't have a moan about a 20% price hike of many people's favourite equipment caused by a currency crash related to a highly political event - then I'm not sure the point of such a forum!! Next thing we won't be able to talk about Fender's QC.......

[quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1469983908' post='3102461'] Great post. As said, the things that transfer mechanical energy into electrical energy will have the greatest bearing on tone. The construction and woods used all add something, but in a band mix you might be hard to put to hear the difference between two basses that are ostensibly the same, but built with different woods. Definitely go with the advice that Wal will give you after taking into account your own aesthetic choices. Exciting times ahead [/quote] Thanks for the advice.

[quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1469981850' post='3102448'] Before I start I'm going to set out some caveats because the moment I hit post what I say will be decried as snake oil. There is an element of truth to that but not to the black and white way in which many talk about it. It's a matter of nuance. Certainly the main sound of a Wal will be from the unique pickups and active circuitry. That and the bolt on construction. A Wal sounds like a Wal irrespective of the woods it is made of. And, in a mix context, the nuance will be much less obvious than solo'd in a perfect listening environment. As many others have said in the inevitable/interminable tonewood debates it is very unlikely that your band or your audience would/could ever tell the difference. However, unlike some who say there would be no difference whatsoever I would say that there will be real, appreciable differences - albeit subtle ones. In any complex system all the elements will contribute to the results albeit to a greater or lesser extent. But other elements like how and where you pluck the strings eetc etc will have a much larger effect on any particular sound. So, whatever wood you plump for you will still have a Wal that sounds like a Wal. However, there is an accepted understanding of how the various Wal woods tend to vary in sound... This goes from Wenge and Maple which tend to be considered the hardest/brightest sound through to English Walnut which is considered to be the most mellow (Ian and Pete always considered this the best wood for fretless). So, here goes. Maple tends to be thought of as the brightest sound. Wenge is close behind and is thought of having more of a punchy sound. Shedua (a relative of ovangkol) comes more in the middle with a pretty balanced, punchy sound. It also comes with some very unique figuring patterns. Paduak is a bit more mellow and then softest is English Walnut. However, I would underline that this is really subtle nuance territory. I would echo the other comments above... Focus more on the aesthetics of the wood that most float your boat and whether to go for a matt or gloss finish. Wenge Shedua From... To... [/quote] Thanks for the post - that's very informative. I get exactly the nuance issue with materials - having a few Musicman basses with body woods ranging from ash to poplar and mahogany I'm of the view that these constructional elements do impart subtly different elements to the sound, which is why I asked the question about Wal basses. I'm also conscious that guitarists with same manufacturer instruments but different details, and especially facings, hear differences - usually at the extremes - especially treble so figured it must be similar for basses. And that shedua looks fabulous - definitely a contender!!

Gentlemen, having got over my urge to buy a pale pink bass recently without parting with any money, I've resumed thinking about buying a Wal again - i.e. a right proper bass. However I'm curious about the difference in sound different types of body facing wood might have. I quite like padauk and also the maples, but would they result in different sounds? Anyone able to advise? Many thanks in advance.

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1469923606' post='3102091'] I thought Mrs Tiggie Winkle's work on Bitches Brew was sublime! [/quote] Aha now you're talking!!! Very experimental!

Of course the real difference is the bass player is playing an electric bass whereas real jazzers would be playing an upright (and many would be getting away with even more simply because their questionable 'passing tone' choices are far less audible). Overall, I think it's a nice example of late 60s/early 70s Rock/pop/blues/soul players doing a take on a jazzy song - there are loads of examples and many are quite nice. I'm quite a jazz fan but don't get hung up on stuff like Moondance. In the same way Mustang Sally is a decent soul song if you don't let rock guitarists anywhere near it. I did listen to Moondance properly and am not sure if the acoustic guitar doesn't give the impression of the bass and drums (which are quite fluid and loose) being out of time because it is rather regimented and probably too high in the mix as well. Not sure why the bass drops out as it does - perhaps it clashed with something in those bits? Anyway I like playing Moondance (and Mustang Sally) and it seems audiences like them as well so win win I guess!!

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1469922790' post='3102089'] Playing the same bass, but all sounding different. Doesn't that mean that a lot of a musicians sound is indeed in the fingers ? Otherwise everyone who plays a Fender Jazz bass through an SWR amp would all would sound like Marcus Miller, but they don't. Next time you're with another bassist, give hi your bass and have him play it, see if he sounds like you. [/quote] Lots of people do sound like Marcus Miller when playing a Fender Jazz in that style. An example is the guy who plays on tracks the Anthony Jackson doesn't on the Lee Ritenour project Overtime - there are other examples of players as well. IMHO you need an HH Stingray to get the ultimate slap sound - the outer H coils cop the Marcus sound - the neck H the Louis Johnson and Bernard Edwards fingerstyle, and both Hs, the Louis Johnson scooped slap sound. http://youtu.be/kmsmtF9wMjc http://youtu.be/gQjSt-L677c

[quote name='seashell' timestamp='1469698721' post='3100362'] Oasis market, Birmingham. [/quote] I'll admit to buying canary yellow loon pants with 19 in flares (that's about 485 mm in modern money) back in the 70s from there ........ one of my mates bought an afghan coat also - is it really still there!