drTStingray

Done - took a little time - and I didn't perceive the questionnaire to be about reading ability. Many people seem to be able to play in many keys even if, like me, their reading ability is not good - to me it's a fundamental of being versatile enough to play with a range of other people and especially singers (although I have come across some guitarists who resolutely refuse to play in any key but E and possibly A, in spite of those keys not suiting the singer at all).

[quote name='highwayman' timestamp='1463692708' post='3053484'] Thanks fellas - nickel or stainless strings? I play (so far) with a pick, post punk & 'hair' metal... [/quote] I've tried a variety of strings over the years on Stingrays - I've concluded the EB slinky pink pack 100 - 45s do it best for me (these are what they are fitted with as new). The 100 E string also evens up response across the strings (especially useful with the powerful EQ and the thump those mutes can create). The cobalt slinky flats are also excellent - I suspect they'd be good with a pick also. Normal long scale strings are fine with the through body stringing of the Classic and pre 80 pre EB - plenty of length. That is a very nice Stingray Classic.

[quote name='AndyTravis' timestamp='1463691430' post='3053471'] Before I do any tinkering, having done set ups on Pre-EB stingrays and having owned a classic... Do the 1990's ones with the big bridges all have the thumb wheels but not actually function? Just got a 1994, and the thumbscrews seem a bit reluctant. [/quote] Yes they should work but they can jam especially if over tightened. From around 95-96 the mute plate and mutes are omitted from bridges and the holes in the bridge plugged with hex bolts - these can be taken out and the mute kit purchased as a part and installed. After 96 they have the shortened bridge without mutes.

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1463480393' post='3051613'] I've always found that passive basses sound better & sit in the mix better than active ones when recording. [/quote] It really depends what music you play, the level of playing skill and the level of recording/mixing skill. However it really shouldn't matter (and doesn't at the highest level) - so long as you create a professional bass sound then you should be ok. Some people prefer more sound sculpting to get 'their' sound and really an active bass only gives you more tone control - you can mess around with your playing style and the controls to make an active bass overdrive the signal and other things but really it is simply broader tone control at the end of it all. And as we have to accept, some players prefer one type to another, as they prefer one bass type to another - I say thank goodness for variation otherwise we'd all be playing one bass type, in one colour, with flats (for instance) - I don't get enforced choice - reminds me of 60s Soviet block country cars!!

Glad you guys are happy with what you've found. Guys like Pino play a variety of basses in different situations. Alex James famously used an SR5 in the studio! All those great 70s guys like Nate Watts put their P and J basses through outboard pre amps. I'm into my 60s, have been playing since the early 70s and discovered 'fat' sounding basses and extended bass styles - the last thing I want to do is return to passive style basses again as that's what didn't do it for me after the mid 70s. I was watching a famous act on the tele the other night and the bass sound was fat and prominent - it then appeared in shot and it was a Warwick - I thought what a breath of fresh air compared with the inaudible stuff I often hear. I've tried to re-bond with the good old P bass tens of times over the last 10 yrs but it just doesn't do it for me - and I end up over hitting the strings to get the fattest sound I can, especially in a noisy mix with a loud drummer. And I need to spend £3k plus to get what I want......... if not more. So I shall not be returning to passive personally any time soon!! I'm glad you guys have found the sound you want but I always can't help thinking, are you getting the best out of bass guitar - it seems to me to be analogous with having a top of the range GTI type version of a car and turning all the sport features off - or having the heater and air con removed to get back to basics. Each to their own though.

Best value IMHO - an active USA built Sub 5 Stingray - built for about 3 yrs from 2003, I bought one for £400 recently and it's a killer - fabulous bass, and I just love the industrial look about it. They have the 2 band MM EQ and pick up. Sort of a classic Ray 5 in cheaper clothing!! One piece of advice if you are taking up five string, get your muting technique sorted - the bottom B string will vibrate when you don't want it to (like an overtone droning sound as in bag pipes) if you don't mute it when you're not plucking the B string - this catches people out whose normal technique is to plant their plucking hand thumb on the pick up.

[quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1463172659' post='3049347'] I think this was the first one officially for sale, if they had kept this one then the next one would have been the first one officially for sale and so on, I think there was a few basses that the reps took around that feature different serial numbers? a few test mules too. [/quote] It was never sold in the first place - according to the guy who owns a lot of the early factory records the serials for B00001 and G00001 were given to Forrest White by Leo and the instruments were produced later in 1976 - the bass has his initials in the neck cavity and presumed he built it. One of the other partners was given serial 0 or 2 but those instruments were never built. (it's all on the MM bass forum under a thread of a similar name to this one). Fact is this bass was Forrest White's, is in mint condition, looks and sounds great and is a piece of bass guitar history. As a Stingray lover I would love this bass but could not afford or justify spending that much. I believe it should be in a museum. Sounds a bargain when you consider you can buy a tatty non original stack knob jazz for about the same money!! The story of Musicman up to and after 1979 is really quite interesting as there was a major disagreement between CLF (the factory) and Musicman over quality control which led to a parting of the ways. Some very interesting stuff in this context has come to light recently amongst other info on instrument production - it's all in the MM bass forum thread. The factory has plenty of old and interesting basses which may explain why EBMM haven't picked up this instrument. Strings and Things have, I think bass #7 also - displayed it at LBGS 2015. None of this should detract from what is a time machine bass in immaculate condition, made (presumably) and owned by one of the original partners in the venture. A real piece of history.

Just bought a Stingray off Jay. Good communication,quick postage and all arrived safe and as described - I've never known a 13 yr old Stingray headstock to be ding free but this one is. Hassle free and recommended.

I thought it was pretty good. Spookily I went out in the car shortly after hearing it on here and it came on the radio - it's actually quite catchy and also comes from the school of thought that bass guitar didn't die as a part of pop music in the last ten years!! The bass makes quite a contribution.

I think the point with these, as has been picked up elsewhere, is that you would get a traditional sounding/looking bass but with the excellent build quality, playability and neck feel associated with a Musicman bass. They've also produced some pretty decent passive tone controls in other models so these should be versatile. Im personally not a massive fan of basses in the P, PJ (or J) tradition so will not be ditching my Stingrays in favour of them. However there are good reports of the feel, playability and sound of these basses. I wouldn't mind trying them when available.

I remember once getting involved in a thread on Talkbass in which someone had asked why they kept hearing people mispronunce Rickenbacker as Rickenbocker, whereupon there ensued a great long thread which basically concluded that Rickenbacker don't know how to spell their own name and of course it should be pronounced Rickenbocker - etc etc etc or Richenbacher even - oo er!!! I'd forgotten until I read this thread and more importantly caught a bit of a radio 2 show (there's an admission of my demographic!!) when driving at the weekend, which was about Erasure and particularly about a cover they did of a famous pop song. The American lady commentating/ dejaying was saying what a remarkable cover of an Obboh song this was - it immediately brought the Talkbass thread flooding back - I must admit I've never heard Abba mispronounced before...... or maybe they spell their name wrong as well ha ha ....... However all that aside I quite like it sometimes. As fur clubs - well yes being #1654 in the P Bass or Stingray club seems a little run of the mill - however if you have something a little more obscure and are one of say 50 or so it can add to the interest when new members join and there's interraction on the subject of the bass type.

[quote name='Rich' timestamp='1462005048' post='3039437'] As for "It had, much to Costello's horror, five strings", this just makes him even more of a complete tit AFAIC. [/quote] Singer/songwriters - you gotta love em eh? I remember many years ago watching some sort of late night BBC4 documentary where that exact moment with Costello and McCartney was shown and when asked why he didn't use the Hofner, he said it was a problem because for instance, it didn't play in tune (or stay in tune - I can't remember the exact words) - presumably this sort of issue is not a problem for the vintage loving officianado as they can digitally correct any recordings made......maybe they're not too bothered about playing absolutely in tune live anyway?

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1461768749' post='3037472'] I have show Friday night. I take a solo in an old Buddy Miles song "Them Changes" I plan on soloing around the Purple Rain structure. Blue [/quote] It's a good structure for soloing around - nice bass and keyboard parts as well.

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1461768364' post='3037466'] Our tribute is not to ruin any of his songs. We just don't have the electromagical gizmos to do them justice. That's probably why most bands are doing Purple Rain - because it's the only song that might be vaguely recognisable when reproduced down the Dog & Duck by the Weekend Warriors [/quote] I've previously been involved in reproducing several of his songs including Purple Rain. The most horrific was Signs of the Times, which relies on minimalism, awesome groove and R and B feel, and an appropriate voice. Unfortunately the average Dog and Duck lot often have too much crunch, a distinct lack of soul and groove and can often turn things into a blues rock widdle fest, be it Hard to Handle, Prince, Stevie Wonder etc etc. There are exceptions but not many!! Oh and Prince was awesome in my book - sadly I never saw him live.

Steve Pearce is listed in the band bio on that page. Has Paul Turner replaced him or is he also covering?

[quote name='rodney72a' timestamp='1461719165' post='3037144'] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]You call this wear?[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Take a look at this one then - a 1961 stack-knob which was sold several years ago by an American dealer:[/font][/color] [url="http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/72arodney/media/p2_uvy40uh0p_so_zpshlxhxbku.jpg.html"][/url] [url="http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/72arodney/media/p3_u25an430t_so_zpssmvrvb0b.jpg.html"][/url] [url="http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/72arodney/media/p1_ugu5ptgpc_so_zps0lzstkim.jpg.html"][/url] [/quote] Good grief - that's what you call distressed finish! Hardware looks pretty good though. I noticed even the stack knob Jazz Fullerton reissues from the early 80s have a higher price - one at Andy Baxter for £2750 currently.

[quote name='Jebo1' timestamp='1461444130' post='3034746'] Whatever people decide to play is cool with me as long as they've got groove and a bit of soul it's all good! [/quote] Yep + 1

[quote name='Jebo1' timestamp='1461439407' post='3034697'] I couldn't really stop the gig and go and get a battery, so I plugged in a passive Fender. Problem solved, Warwick sold. Extreme example and certainly nothing to do with the quality of Warwicks, I just won't use them after that. Superstitious nonsense I'm sure. [/quote] I haven't gigged with a passive bass since around 1980 - always carry spare batteries after a problem many years ago. Good job your spare (vintage?) Fender didn't need a quick truss rod tweek as well eh? I don't think this thread was intended to morph into a passive v active thread but in response to this, it has to be said that a passive Fender creates a significantly thinner and certainly different sound from your typical Warwick/Wal/Musicman bass - I went to a gig of a famous band whose sound was founded on a Warwick sound - the bass player used a passive vintage Fender - it actually changed the sound of the band (for the worse as far as I was concerned) - love the bass player, one of my favourites - just couldn't hear them properly. I've heard the reverse as well - famous early 70s band - famous player used a (now) vintage Fender in the day - used a Wal and suddenly you could hear the intricacies of their playing. So swapping to a vintage bass may suit some sartorial/fashion/bassist's current preference imperative - but it can play havoc with the 'band' sound. All dependent on your personal perspective and preference.

You are right, it's personal opinion and quite a lot of people would agree with your view. Is the price of the vintage hyped - in terms of sound and playability my view is yes. If you look at it like antiques, the prices go up and down as they are more or less fashionable. Certain types of antiques which were worth a lot 20 yrs ago aren't any longer and vice versa. They're hostage to fashion and the views of different generations towards them - and some of the changes happen when whole generations pass away. Put it this way, it seems entirely possible for vintage instruments to dip and rise in fashion.

[quote name='paulmcnamara' timestamp='1461415998' post='3034460'] Just thinking lately about bass icons such as Jameson and Jaco and how at their pinnacle they were using Fender basses that were probably no more than 10/12 years old, and yet we seem to put so much emphasis on 'needing' to use or desiring a vintage bass when really these guys show us that its all in the fingers and head? [/quote] Indeed - and back in the 70s most of the best bass parts seemed to be played on newish instruments. Back in the 70s I played in a soul band and the Jamaican origin guitarist, a self confessed Hendrix fan, played a daphne blue Strat with a small headstock and non TV style logo - I was deeply suspicious he'd been ripped off with a copy because it wasn't the sort of Strat anyone played then - however it was a 50s guitar ........... these days I'd instantly recognise that. The point is that these things come into and go out of fashion - I suspect there are a whole lot of reasons other than playability why 'vintage' instruments are so sought after that even knackered examples command decent prices. And despite what anyone protests, unfortunately this does currently afflict Fenders (guitars and basses) and Gibson (guitars mostly) where some command silly prices. Take 80s Fender basses for instance - panned and uncool at the time, yet some are now becoming reveered! I quite like the idea of owning a vintage bass but every time I explore the idea I have an overwhelming desire to buy a new or newer bass. I suspect the allure of vintage guitars has as much to do with individual's nostalgia as anything else - retired chaps buying them as some have plenty of spare money and tons of nostalgia for the late 50s/early 60s bands. As a youth of the 70s, will my generation, which is associated far more with 70s instruments, cause the price of 70s stuff to rise in price when it becomes like the Hank Marvin followers of now and the latter are not around - and will the 60s instruments become less popular? Who knows but some of the old basses are very lovely - worth the value of a new Wal? Daylight robbery in my book but that's just me! I'd take a new instrument any day (and remember when the bass is mixed in a recording, who would know whether you've used a £5000 P bass or a £500 one?).

[quote name='badboy1984' timestamp='1461216896' post='3032465'] Well after trying to get a similar tone last night, I come to a conclusion is myself that has the problem. I can get a similar tone with the right EQ but is me thats no use to playing with the tone. Is one of those things, I got a tone in my head that i want or like but when i actually come to use it I can't get use to it. For some reason when something is not sounded right I just crack the bass up abit and gone back to my fretted tone. I do get more of that fretless tone when i play near the neck tho. [/quote] If you haven't got a mid range tone EQ control on the bass have you tried upping it on your amp a little? That in combination with where you pluck the strings may help.

As I understand it (and my understanding of vintage guitar collectibles is not great) but generally vintage basses are nowhere near as collectible as vintage guitars. So it's not unusual to see vintage Strats etc going for 4 + times more than an equivalent era Fender bass ....... I guess this simply reflects the respective value of guitarists v bassists ....... cough cough no that was a mere jest - I suspect it reflects the difference in demand. THAT IS EXCEPT the stack knob Jazz bass is the only bass generally on a par with the most sought after guitars, collectibility wise. So that's why pristine ones are £20k and this 'distressed'/'well worn' one is the price it is - plus it's said to have been owned by one of the most iconic bassists of the last three + decades. No I don't get it either - in fact I'd much rather buy a new bass as, like with a new car, I love the feel, smell, notion of a brand new item - plus I tend to not buy makes where its alleged you need to try 25 before you find 'the one', be it cars, basses or anything else - come to think of it only shopping with women (who all seem to want to try 25 items in different shops before buying the first one they looked at) seems to be on a par with the established method published by some for buying some types of musical instrument. I certainly didn't buy 25 Golf GTIs before I found 'the one' either - I may have changed my mind on the colour suitability for example after a time but that was me changing my mind rather than anything to do with the car. Going back to what I said - yes I can see why it's the price it is - but no I don't get it either!!

I have a fretless Ray (largely because I like Pino's playing so much from that era - well from all eras, and Jaco, who you can also attempt to emulate with it). Several points - that type of sound (note swell/mwah) is present on my fretless Ray acoustically - the construction/design of the bass create that - the tone controls/pre amp etc add to that (in my case, the guitar has a three band EQ and the mid range control can be used to pump up or lower the amplified sound of the mwah and harmonics - a 2 band Ray like Pino's can be adjusted by dropping the bass/treble controls to bring up the mid range). Notice where he's plucking the strings and how he varies the position/intensity to change the attack. The level of skill and control is great (way beyond me). Finally, if you watch him playing the same bass with Paul Young on the Live Aid show and other performances you'll see how he turns it from a fretless tone monster into a snarling funk and slap machine at will. It's the characteristics of the bass plus an extremely talented player.