drTStingray

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1460995570' post='3030488'] If the "customer requirements" are lower prices then, if you're building in the west, then there's only so far you can go. If a factory worker in China earns £250 a month, that's always going to present a problem to a western commercial organisation. At this time, whatever you make in the west, you will never beat the Chinese on price until the worlds economy changes. But it is changing, slowly. [/quote] This is true now but doesn't explain why UK and US motor markets (and electric instrument and white goods markets) got infiltrated by Japanese manufacturers in the 60s/70s/80s. They simply produced a more consistent product which met customer expectations - all the more surprising as in the 50s and early 60s, anything with the moniker 'Made in Hong Kong' or similar was a watch word for cheap rubbish. The later Japanese stuff was anything but and even more so now, the brands have a good reputation for making well engineered stuff which is reliable and lasts (eg Toyota cars, Yamaha instruments etc etc).

The Japanese copy basses became quite popular in the 70s - I had one (an Antoria Jazz Bass copy). It was a good intrument that I had as a present - I would have preferred a Fender as that was the bass of my dreams but hey ho, this was a good second best. The Japanese imports started to gain favour with motor cycles starting in the late 60s and then cars in the 70s, and basically gave a reliable, well built (for the time) vehicle with decent performance but more importantly came fully loaded (eg radio and everything else as standard). Your average British car didn't always meet all of these requirements and the manufacturers attitudes to 'extras' like a radio etc was you could have them, but at extra cost. This disrespect for customers resulted in considerable inroads into the market by foreign imports, especially Japanese. They seem to have done something similar with musical instruments from the 70s on with Yamaha covering a range of different instruments. Those guitar and bass copies (which only resembled them - were not totally identical initially) were around at a time when the needs of those aspiring to a decent instrument for a lower price could not afford a Fender or Gibson. I guess the Squiers of the 80s were a response to this but were really entry level basses. The more recent up market guitars (Sadowski etc) seem to meet another niche which the main manufacturers may have been slow to respond to. There was indeed a court case not too many years ago which Fender (I think) lost, but may have outlawed copies (in the 2000s sometime?). IMHO the bottom line is the copies generally started because of an inability or reluctance for the major manufacturers to respond to what the public wanted. Now there's a shock...... Fender/Gibson etc unresponsive to customer requirements!!

Strangely, I'd be the opposite. If I was spending that much money, and knowing what they offer, I'd be wanting to order my exact spec. As I understand it you do it through a custom shop dealer and you fill in a build sheet which details all the options, some of which are only available as master built rather than team built. There's a thread somewhere on Talkbass about it, and a PDF of the build sheet, which runs to several pages. Presumably the quotation you get is for UK prices. Haven't done it myself but have thought about it.

[quote name='Jimbogubson' timestamp='1460057337' post='3022264'] Any love for the dimension bass out there and can it make stingray noises? [/quote] As they have 18v electronics compared with the 9v of a Stingray, if there is any comparison to be made with a Musicman surely it's with a Bongo. never having played a Dimension myself I don't know - from what I've heard in sound samples they don't really sound like either.

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1459957237' post='3021270'] Just under £2.4k. [/quote] £200 uplift on standard Classic Stingray at GAK - quoted at £2149 - and yes I'm thinking of getting one!!

These Tony Levin OLPs are quite rare. I remember when they came out an article with Tony Levin indicated he worked with the company to tweak the pre amp so they do actually have a 'Tony Levin signature preamp', always presuming someone else hasn't swapped it out previously. People say great things about the John East Stingray pre amp, which I have heard said is based on his 76 Stingray. However, information now coming to light from posts on the EBMM bass forum, based on company records shows there to have been a series of pre amps used on the pre EB basses - and up to a major upgrade in late 1978, they were all doused completely in epoxy - unless John's bass was one of those which went back to the factory for rectification and got the free pre amp upgrade as part of the work. Long and short, it's your bass, up to you to do what you like, but the pre amp should be a TL special rather than the standard OLP.

[quote name='Highfox' timestamp='1459753584' post='3019126'] I'm pretty much the same with them, took them off after one gig, sounded nice but far too stiff for me to enjoy fingerstyle. [/quote] Me too - made my Stingray 5 virtually unplayable. But I love flats (with sensible tension) - you needed to be an arm wrestler to play my SR5 with that particular make and model of flats.

[quote name='Mudpup' timestamp='1459286495' post='3015220'] Thats actually the difference between a 3eq and a 2eq Ray there - its not the fretboard that sounds different....... [/quote] That may well be, without knowing how he set the EQs on the basses it would be difficult to know. However I have both rosewood and maple boarded Stingrays and they sound quite different, particularly the slap sound. Rosewood has a darker sound and is slightly more mellow.

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1459288977' post='3015254'] I'm no expert on Musicman stuff, but I believe the Classic range was introduced a few years back and was meant to be a recreation of the earlier, pre Ernie Ball basses, and also a new 5 string model with the same characteristics as the four string. So your 93 will indeed have some of the features that the Classic range has, but it isn't a classic. I'm sure one of the forums many Stingray fanatics will be along shortly to tell me I'm wrong..... [/quote] You're nearly right!! The Classic series was introduced in 2010, and is a combination of the features of an early 90s bass (figured maple neck; 6 bolt neck joint; long bridge with mute system; wheel truss rod adjuster), with pre EB features like slab, non contoured body and strings through body. There are other features which are different (hollow saddles; chrome truss rod adjuster; 7.5 in neck radius). Whoever said you can't get a 2 band sound with a 3 band fitted bass is incorrect - i can certainly get a good approximation with a specific EQ setting (noting that the 3 band has more mid range at centre detent - thus you have to cut it slightly - boosting bass and treble a little will also help). The Classic model is available only in 2 band EQ form - the regular model in 2 or 3 band form, and the multi pick up version in 3 band form only. There is a neck through model also which is available with all of the pick up/EQ options. They're all available with rosewood or maple fingerboards and the standard Stingray in fretless form also (lined or unlined). The 3 band is a little more flexible than the 2 band in a live setting IMO. In multi pick up form there's further versatility.

Cripes nearly all of you think it's gross misconduct so instant dismissal........ I would confess to having been drunk on stage once or twice in my youth ........ but only as hilariously as other incidents like the drummer's stool breaking and him falling off the back of the stage in the middle of Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is by Rose Royce - all the more hilarious because this particular drummer was v flash both in dress and his choice of kit - all see through shells with gold and red stripes...... Even if we are talking a fully pro outfit I would have thought a firm rollocking plus a bit of gentle persuasion and diversion at future gigs would have the desired effect. I've seen famous pros pissed on stage before now - and they didn't get thrown out. I think you should all lighten up a bit!! It's not as if he nicked the singer's missus or something!!

The Classics aren't reissues either as they are a hybrid of a pre EB Stingray (slab body) and an early 90s Stingray (6 bolt neck joint, wheel truss rod, long bridge with mutes), figured maple neck. It sounded ok to me - in fact rather good. You clearly aren't a fan (I recall your comments about EBMM necks being appalling - which many including me would take issue with) - so why bother?

[quote name='Schnozzalee' timestamp='1459007465' post='3012807'] Hmm...Can't get past the Marketing BS. [/quote] Well it's obviously a marketing video ultimately but there's no BS in it - I guess you're hearing things or something.........

Interesting video and makes me want one of these all the more. Sterling Ball's bass playing is good as well (and guitar).

Congratulations on your new bass - looks great and a mate of mine has a Lionheart so I know what they sound like and how flexible they are. Btw that's nothing like a Wal IMO - it is sort of more like a Sabre without a pickguard. Wals have exposed pick up poles - the Enfield doesn't so unless you are squinting or partially sighted I don't see it!! The only problem with your purchase - well you'll probably still be wondering how you'd get on with a Stingray fretless - I have one and it's wonderful - but I'd love a Wal and an Enfield as well - love those LEDs btw. Excellent and very intuitive. My fretless came, 20 odd yrs old but seldom used at home, but had roundwounds fitted. The board was not only swirled but there was a slight step in it between D and G above fret 11 equivalent of so - it has EB slinky flats now and sounds glorious - however I still have to kick myself every time I try and bend a string fretted bass style - unnecessary and swirls the board even with flats - you simply need to slide up the string slightly for the bend effect. I guess swirls are ok but wearing horizontal steps in the board will eventually require attention to restore playability.

Ah takes me back to my youth!!! But where do you start with these as there are so many. I picked this one because If you went to a club in 77, 78, 79 they would play this monster at least once - monster because you'd need some stamina to dance for that long but people loved it and the bass parts are wicked!! http://youtu.be/EwjZEEsMJaU

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1458671733' post='3009734'] Here it is, the pics were taking when i first opened it, and it needed a good clean, its one of the few 100% stock examples still known to exist, many have been modded or refin'd. Very special bass indeed. http://[url="http://s208.photobucket.com/user/rosesguitar_2007/media/Slab/image_2_zps24d15b06.jpeg.html"][/url] Pride of the pack. [/quote] Fantastic - I also looked at some of your other pictures but had to stop - all i can say is Wow - spectacular!!

[quote name='Opticaleye' timestamp='1458674835' post='3009774'] I bought 2 sets of these when they first came, out while I was in the U.S. I made this video with them; [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s736Ryj4J3A"]https://www.youtube....h?v=s736Ryj4J3A[/url] I really liked them at first but then, after a couple of months, they seemed to lose the fundamental quite a bit. At this point they sounded like bad flatwounds instead of the perfect mix of round and flat that I initially loved. I don't kill strings quickly either. Disappointing [/quote] Nice playing on the video - but goodness - that's not good. I put mine on the fretless Ray around a year ago - the bass still has a ton of mwah and they can still zing if I turn the treble up. The opposite experience for me and they sound warm and punchy with tons of zing if wanted. I also have a fretted Classic Ray which has TIs fitted - which sound really nice - they're a little older than the EBs but I have the tone of the EBs as on a par, with a little more growl and more zing available if wanted. The fundamental is fairly similar. The tension is v similar. The EB cobalts had a slightly sticky feel when brand new but that went after a week or two.

I bought a set of Ernie Ball Slinky flatwounds (cobalts) which I have on my Stingray fretless - they sound excellent and have some unique qualities in the sound - similar tension to TIs. Highly recommended.

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1458289271' post='3006232'] See Larry Taylor at Monterey with slab Precision in the video above. [/quote] Yes the very one - I hadn't run your upload, as you guessed but I'd seen it before. He seems to suggest it was just another new P bass hanging on the wall in a shop in the US, which he happened to buy because he wanted a P bass, and a black one. To me it had an aggressive tone (quite unlike his recorded work which had a Jamerson like intensity to the thump) - he played pretty hard from my recollection (plucking intensity rather like Leo Lyons - maybe you'd call it almost thwacking rather than plucking!).

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1458261272' post='3006185'] Forget all the negative hype bullsh*te. BassWood is a great wood for bass bodies. a lot of the reason they paint it over on Fender MIJ/CIJ, is because it doasnt have the grain of Ash. It still has the tone. Music Man Bongo's are proof of that. [/quote] My Bongo is quite a heavy beast as well - I know some are quite light but as mine is basswood it sort of blows the light weight theory also - at least as a given with basswood - it also has no dings whatsoever (2008 model). I suspect they used basswood partially because of neutral affect on tone but also the ease of cutting the curvy edges of the Bongo......... although that is also contradicted by more recent limited versions using alder or mahogany (with trans finishes showing wood grain). I wouldn't worry in the slightest about basswood on an instrument having experienced ownership of the Bongo.

Larry Taylor who played with Canned Heat, John Mayall and others (and is up there with Bernard Edwards, Jamerson et al in my humble opinion) popped up on Talkbass pointing out he had a black one which appears on Canned Heat's performance on the film Monterey Pop - he also said he bought it in a regular shop on the States. Quite interesting because I'd never even noticed before and his story appeared to fly in the face of the written legend on the slab P basses somewhat. Monterey was 1967?

[quote name='Tonci' timestamp='1458199967' post='3005436'] So, where can I find it? Just like this: https://www.google.hr/search?q=black+ice+mm+stingray+pickguard&client=safari&hl=hr-hr&prmd=ivsn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjrvujqmcfLAhWCxxQKHfh4C2QQ_AUICCgB&biw=320&bih=460#imgrc=DkJbIBhGPV9xeM%3A [/quote] You certainly used to be able to order a range of them from EBMM, via a dealer - however they reduced the range a while ago. You will probably have to get it from an aftermarket supplier (Pickguard Heaven in the States seem to do some of the discontinued Musicman ones).

Active electronics Simple, intuitive controls No extraneous electronic hum (noiseless operation) Humbuckers or single coil with exposed pole pieces Coil selection switch Series/parallel switching Basses with broad response to plucking intensity and position for flexibility Figured maple necks Maple boards Rosewood or ebony boards Shiny chrome hardware Natural or burst finishes Curvy design detail (Such as MM scratch plate - Bongo body edges) Simple scratch plate colours (black, white - the same in pearl format) Capability of punchy, fat bass sound without too much effort Wacky colours such as fiesta red, tangerine pearlescent

I have a slightly different take on this and think the brighter colours actually suit the shape well - mine's a sort of orange metallic colour (lava pearl) 5 string, also with a piezo. The shape makes it massively comfortable to play on a strap. I find the bass hugely versatile and generally fills the room with very supportive bass sound. It works perfectly in the modern blues/funk/jazz setting I normally play in. I don't use mine that often but largely because I'm more comfortable on a four. So much so that im seriously thinking of ordering a 4 string Bongo in chilli red. I wouldn't sell my Bongo as I enjoy playing it so much - it just isn't my number 1 because it has five strings. It makes a nice change from the Stingrays I normally play, as does my very very LE Sabre. Mine has no headstock ding though Wazoo is right, indeed you're also likely to have the drummers eye out with that headstock. I always get very positive audience interest when I use it, based on the sound and looks. People ask what make it is and it the past, people have presumed it's a boutique instrument. The only negative I've ever picked up has been on forums, from those players who seem wedded to the idea that guitars may only be made by two firms based on 1950s/60s designs. The shape is actually quite stunning in the flesh. It's almost all positive - I'd keep it if I were you.