drTStingray

Glam please. Can't beat a bit of Tiger Feet or Lonely this Christmas. Thrash is nice but the singing always makes me think of an individual football fan straining to be heard amongst a crowd of 40000 (maybe I'm in the wrong genre??!!)

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1450916943' post='2937099'] I don't think it takes an insider to know Barry Gordy President of Motown, while he provided opportunity he was not fair in financial compensation. A lot of those 60s icons were left with nothing. Including Jamerson. Blue [/quote] Blue, I'm not sure that's totally fair. The likes of Jamerson were on a salary and the books written suggest he and his family were comfortably off - certainly at the height of the success. The real upset started when they moved to LA, and soul music started to morph into other things, which some of the guys found difficult to adapt to - along with other issues. One would have hoped that people would have looked after these guys when hard times happened but history has shown the music business has not been able to prevent a lot of tragedy over the years.

Although both of these forms of soul music influenced music more generally, it's very clear that Motown influenced pop/rock bass players more than most. Jamerson and Babbitt had a profound and broad effect!! Listen to the original soundtrack of Jesus Christ Superstar - Alan Spenner's playing is pure Jamerson!! John Paul Jones (especially the Lemon Song) and Paul McCartney. Although not a soul fan until the mid 70s I had noticed the bass parts on Motown songs from the late 60s and the bass on some of the Stax (but the horn riffs were the real stand out there). The other thing both genres did was to crossover to white audiences in the UK in a big way - Motown was particularly beloved of late 60s skinheads, as was Trojan reggae and the likes of Ben E King and Otis Redding.

Both for me also. They're fundamentally different though - for me the Motown groove is more subtle and funkier - the stax rythmn section is great but different - and extremely powerful particularly live - the Stax horns are very edgy - more towards the James Brown style. But they are both excellent and a bass player's dream to play.

Very little for me - but before I was in bands for my second period in the last 10 yrs or so I played along to a lot of songs - a lot of Stevie Wonder, some weather report (via transcription books), I learned quite a lot from transcriptions in Bass Player and the like (only selected ones I really liked). I spent a lot of time going to jam sessions and having to play classic rock (nobody knew much else) but I did have the pleasure of playing a few jazz standards with a couple of people that attended, for which I had to research later! These days I rarely play along to CDs but I still have some of my 'repertoire' in my practice regime (which really involves having a couple of basses out and picking them up daily for half an hour or as the mood takes me) - this is acoustic of course - I generally have a fretless and fretted Stingray for this. I also keep slap and 'me' licks and fills at fingertip. Every so often I'll get the chance to play one of the songs I know in a band - Signed Sealed Delivered springs to mind; Cissy Strut; Reeling In the Years; Smooth Operator - so I have a head start!!! So the answer is definitely yes I do!! But not as much - I also have fads - for instance Jamerson - so I get out some songs or the Standing in the shadows of Motown book and CD and brush up some favourites! I just do what I enjoy (though sometimes I'm required to learn stuff I don't particularly like) - I still try and do a professional job (or semi pro to be precise) job of it!!

Working class heroes - well maybe in the eyes of the NME and music journos. Where did this luducrous idea there wasn't a gobbing fest come from? They all did it!! Bad chest my arse!! In reality many of the working class of the time were down night clubs dancing their hot pants and flares off to disco and soul - Johnny Bristol, T Connection, Chic and the like - or seeing the ELO who were absolutely huge at the time. It's not as if this was Merseybeat or something - you'd have more chance of seeing the 2 tone post skinheads than punks on the street (unless you were around the Westwood/McClaren manor). They were even banned from playing in places by most councils!

[quote name='Doctor J' timestamp='1450611059' post='2934234'] I can't and I'd love to see the auditionees who were deemed so unsuitable as to make Bootsy seem like the man for the gig. The best bass player is the most appropriate bass player for the part. They may not be the [i]best[/i] bass player in any other circumstances, but what fits best is what's best and that's often not what's most technically or melodically accomplished. [/quote] However unless it was The Osmonds or the Partridge Family for instance, it would be customary for the bass player to be able to play, unless the bass was to be used as a stage prop. There are several quotes in this thread which are truly hilarious - Bristol Johnny at a time when Philly soul singer Johnny Bristol was riding high in the charts........ and the Led Zeppelin with Albert Steptoe singing is also great .......... However for me, talking about Zeppelin and the Pistols in the same breath is like doing the same with Chopin and Bobby Crush (sorry Bobby) - an outrage. They sounded more like Chris Spedding to me (but with Albert Steptoe singing). You will have guessed I think they were truly sh*te and over hyped by a wicked PR machine - they certainly released a seminal album and did wholesale anarchy before the Young Ones and Bottom - but the latter were actually good!!!! Jaco was far more a punk (though a jazz one) -These guys were vomiting and gobbing yobs first and foremost!!

I think they're great - I've been several times on quests for Sabres, Wals and Precisions. Very relaxed atmosphere and great stock. I have to say the first time I visited I thought they were closed, didn't notice the buzzer and sign and went elsewhere - since then I've buzzed and it was all fine. They also gave me good advice on whether or not to reshoot the board on my fretless. Recommended and a little less 'bustling' than Denmark Street.

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1450526980' post='2933606'] having to learn early punk stuff for the band I play in a lot of it is very musical, don't forget a lot of the bands that jumped on the band wagon had been around for a few years and could actually play a bit, Stranglers, SLF, Penetration, The Ruts and the like, it was when other bands appeared that believed the hype that 'you didn't need to know how to play' that it got messy, very messy. Yes the Pistols didn't invent punk, but Joe Public thinks they did, listening to Anarchy in the UK now it sounds like a run of the mill rock song with sneering vocals [/quote] Yeah precisely - and the Stranglers and others were very good bands. I guess the Pistols were just the most outrageous and assisted if not directed by McClaren, got a handful of massive PR exposures which gave them notoriety. Bands like MC5 predated also with outrageous vocals against a rock setting.

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1450520461' post='2933510'] for the uninitiated the Sex Pistols invented punk and are remembered by the uneducated masses, helped by Mr Rotten's frequent TV appearances on things like I'm a (non) Celebrity and, am I the smarmiest man in the world?, Piers Morgan, as are the Spice Girls, not so sure about Brotherhood of Man though. [/quote] I would doubt anyone who was over 18 in the mid/late 70s would NOT remember Brotherhood of Man - frighteningly middle of the road, but sold millions of records and won the Eurovision Song Contest. Punk seemed a bit of a flash in the pan to me and replaced by more musical stuff a couple of years later. I went to a punk gig at a club in Birmingham around that time and not only did it have relentless gobbling between the bands and the audience, great energy and anger but they also pumped the smell of cellulose thinners through the aircon system and showed porn on the tv monitors!! To be honest I much preferred a couple of performances by Dr Feelgood at the same place - no gobbling, cellulose thinners or lame histrionics but as much if not more energy and aggression and a damned sight more musical in my mind, despite it also being fairly simplistic. I always thought the Pistols were just another arm of the Westwood/McClaren empire and I really wonder whether they qualify for the moneca of inventors of a genre. They were certainly the most famous of the time.

I wonder in truth whether the Pistols are any more broadly remembered than, say Brotherhood of Man or the Spice Girls. I very much doubt it apart from amongst devotees of the genre. Certainly kings of outrageous behaviour (very comical at times) - sad and pretty awful at times. Innovative bass player - innovative not - bass player - possibly .............

[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1450483164' post='2933347'] And in another interview I recall he said that he wound up playing that way because it was the only way he could keep it together singing and playing bass at the same time. Makes sense when you think about it - almost strumming like a rhythm guitar player - much easier to strum than pick when singing. Bet he is dynamite on a ukelele! [/quote] Nice thought but likely wrong or inaccurate (or he was joking). This was one of their first recorded tracks featuring lead vocals over a fingerstyle bass part. And slap bass was increasingly one if the features of R and B and jazz fusion from the mid 70s on (although Larry Graham played it even earlier). http://youtu.be/oHGcPWnJZtM

Watching these reminded me of this track - nice fingerstyle groove - a little bit of slap only http://youtu.be/nfMx0ph_4FM

[quote name='spectoremg' timestamp='1450383940' post='2932330'] Was it the 2012 tour? I was staggered and I mean STAGGERED by the quality of the vocals. [/quote] No it wasn't - possibly 2010 or 11 - but I would echo your comment - really sounded fantastic.

[quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1450382534' post='2932310'] [/quote] Ouch - Oh dear - f***ing iPhone apple spell strikes again!! It was mids!!! I've corrected all the other corrections as well!!

The guitarist in the band i play in has recently bought a new high end combo. He's a great player. However I was chatting to him one day and noticed his graphic EQ was shaped literally U - bass and treble boosted to about 75% and mid cut by 50%. I explained what that would do to our sound but he said that's the recommended setting. He did change it for a while but its gradually crept back. The real problem is that part of his sound can get into bass guitar territory frequency wise and especially on unison riffs or lower register notes on chords. Having heard us recorded there's no problem (the bass guitar always cuts through better anyway). If there is a problem its on stage where it affects our ability to hear ourselves....... I guess we have to put up with it unless we go totally PA with full monitoring - scarcely realistic in pubs. I tend to tweak my mids a little to compensate on offending songs. The point here is I suspect guitarists are being encouraged to have this sound - it's not something one or two individuals do. It can be worsened by musicians (guitar or keyboard) who play too much (or six string chords) - forgetting they're not playing alone!!

[quote name='Grassie' timestamp='1450378121' post='2932257'] Most people think of slap bass and Mark when they think of Level 42. The other vital ingredients (for me anyway) was Mike Lindup's falsetto and Phil Gould's songwriting and drumming. Level 42 would have disappeared without a trace after a couple of albums if it weren't for those two dudes. And as far as looking for stuff that MK has recorded that doesn't involve slap, check out Dominic Miller's album "November" from a couple of years ago. His playing is unrecognisable. [/quote] The concert I mentioned from a few years back was notable for fabulous vocals - the whole band sang backing as well as MK and ML and they'd really enhanced the vocals on that string of 80s hits. Also, the sax and guitar arrangements had been filled out very tastefully to reflect the fullness of the recorded sounds. The result was overall really good and though you can't get away from the MK elements, the overall group sound and dynamics was great. The drummer was also awesome - highly recommended. I've seen them three times - 1981, 1990 and circa 2008. The last time it was a complete and very enjoyable show. Everyone up dancing etc

Worst:- Definitely Mistletoe and Wine Best:- I'm playing a medley of White Christmas, Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer; Winter Wonderland; We Wish you a Merry Christmas; Jingle Bells; Silent Night etc followed by a standalone Merry Christmas Everybody by Slade - I have to say I like all of them as a player but not sure I would as a punter - mind you they're all well oiled by that stage. One I don't play which I like is Rocking around the Christmas Tree (to listen to and to play)!!

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1450363596' post='2932067'] Any note however bad, on any instrument, is never more than one semi-tone away from a good note. [/quote] It can always be a deliberate passing tone......... especially if you play the same pattern twice over (a jazz saxophonist gave me that little piece of insight) - however it doesn't work if for instance you play a flat 7 note over a major 7 chord.......but there again someone might say what the f*** are you doing playing such colourful non root notes on a bass!! Now how about a really duff note - the keyboard player selects the wrong transpose and plays Adele 'someone like you' in F rather than Bb......... as happened to me last weekend - pity the poor singer. i don't think even a bass player playing the wrong root note would be as bad!!! I've never experienced a keyboard player doing this sort of thing before but it's a recipe for f***ing up an otherwise great song if the singers up to it.

Im a great fan of him. I went to a Level 42 concert a few years ago and was taken by the number of early 40s late 30s females in the audience - so not musos, though there were undoubtedly some there. I guess Mark has a lot of non muso fans who get pissed off with sometimes poor amateur bassists slagging him off for being too flash. I've heard many rude comments about Mark King, Stanley Clark and the like - usually from guitarists or perhaps bassists wedded to a particular style (Presicion thump along with flats, Squire esque Rickenbacker, the Ox's typewriter style rock, with or without toppiness). I've said this before but It's generally only other musicians who dislike slap bass - I play a few songs in pub/function bands which have slap bass and audience members love it - my ex wife once said to me 'can't you play some of that exciting bass rather than boring stuff' (meaning root 5 thump along). I do wonder whether a lot of the objection to bassists like Mark King (and that shop noodling emperors new clothes chap) relates to an inability for many players to even hope to achieve that level of skill and musicianship - you hear this a lot with guitarists (complaining about obviously brilliant guitar players) - an approach being to attack it as too flash etc etc. I also thought MK had done session work in the 80s (possibly Nick Kershaw?) - around the time of the princes trust concert (incidentally at which you can see McCartney clearly quizzing MK about his technique when McCartney is on singing - I think in the last song) - I stand to be corrected however re Nick kershaw session.

[quote name='Raslee' timestamp='1450161969' post='2930073'] Can't make up my mind if tort should go on the black sub....sorry Discreet [/quote] Noooooo - the standard checker plate one is very cool!!!! (my view might be influenced by having several Stingrays with normal pick guards!!). Also worth giving the Sub a go on old school Motown - they can really thump in a defined, warm way - especially if you pluck nearer to the neck joint.

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1450139255' post='2930042'] Those USA SUBs are fantastic. [/quote] Yep Hes right - I have a white 5 string USA Sub - it sounds, looks and feels brilliant. Nice Limelight as well.

[quote name='No lust in Jazz' timestamp='1450076738' post='2929266'] I'm not too fussed about the genre good music is good music. But for me the guys that I mentioned - Jah Wobble especially made me want to pick up a bass. [/quote] Yeah I can see that - there were a number of really good bass players around at that time.

Funky R and B http://youtu.be/6jr3x4oJrDs

The best Precision bass is serial number L18796, a 1963 Precision. In my experience they all sound fairly similar, some having a little more resonance and tone than others. Shouldn't this thread be in bass guitars rather than general discussion??