drTStingray

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1450087679' post='2929354'] A very fair question. The answer must be to sell only the half of your gear that is pretty much unlistenable. A very fair point but nonetheless I expect most of the people who claim to be influenced by the revered one are playing with frets. [/quote] Fret less but only sometimes - oh wait - Jaco played fretted also sometimes!!!! There the similarity ends......

Disco/electro http://youtu.be/l8fPVuK4DLw

[quote name='chriswareham' timestamp='1450052965' post='2929241'] Well, take the suggestions as a starting point then. If not, then stay in your Jazz/Fusion ghetto. That's because unlike Jazz/Fusion and its ilk, it's not about improvisation (or more accurately being able to apply a bit of theory in order to endlessly noodle over a couple of standard chord progressions). Take the debut album by New Model Army - there's more invention in the bass parts on that than the entire back catalogue of any Jazz/Fusion outfit. Quite possibly, but that may be because Jazz/Fusion was about providing a platform to show off with tedious displays of what's then passed of as virtuosity, rather than true invention. Many punk and particularly new wave bands were looking for something new, having tired of the bloated pomposity of coke fuelled mid 70s dross. [/quote] You have some strange assumptions in your post - I've never played in a jazz/fusion band. I have played a good bit of punk and new wave though!! Each genre has its own tedium for some - punk with its displays of anger and aggression (much of it put on it seemed to me in the gigs I went to in 1977). Status Quo playing similarly straightforward music to a different formula which some might call tedious after a while - some people may say folk rock is all fiddley didley and country and western is root and fifth with one or two song themes throughout - all ways of saying it's not for me, but putting the genre down in a gross generalisation. I'm a bit of an old sceptic - I always thought some of the punk bands were rather like the Simon Cowell and the ilk manufactured pop - just that the manufacturers wore 'hip' clothes of the genre etc - it was a genre with the fashions to go with it - I thought the groups/movement rebelled against the bloated pomp of the late 70s prog rock (although I believe at least one famous exponent, on bumping into Phil Collins at an airport, admitted to admiring Genesis!!).

[quote name='JellyKnees' timestamp='1450030394' post='2928937'] I'm 49 (from Birkenhead) and no one that I knew around my age was really interested in the Beatles when I got into playing music in the late 70s early 80s. It was great. There was a sense of optimism and people were looking forward. Now we have this endless nostalgia BS and this whole Beatles tourism industry. Tedious. [/quote] I can totally believe this - when I was a late teen in the late 60s me and my music mad mates were not into the Beatles (Tremeloes, Beach Boys,Small Faces) etc etc - they all classed as pop bands (in the case of the Beatles probably suffering from memories of purchasing merchandise like bubble gum picture cards in 1964 and exchanging them in primary school playground) and not on a par with Cream, the Nice, Pink Floyd, Fleetwood Mac, Ten Years After. The Beatles had a little more mystique about them though than the likes of the Tremeloes and Hollies and that ilk - and especially with the Sergeant Pepper and Abbey Road albums. All that said, McCartney is undoubtably a great musician, writer, band leader, composer - probably amongst the greatest and most influential of our age - but as a bass player - I think he's a pretty good player and how he sings whilst playing some of those bass parts is a mystery to me. Technically, as a bass player, there have been many better but nonetheless he plays perfectly for his material. All IMHO of course!! I'm sure I've subconciously nicked many of his phrases which now form part of my personal dictionary of bass licks!!

[quote name='kevvo66' timestamp='1450038372' post='2929105'] The specials , think they were more ska but they were very good all the same 😺 [/quote] I think you're right on both - most of the bass parts in the ska bands of that era were great IMO - couldn't say the same for punk though!

[quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1450033421' post='2929004'] Like teen town then! [/quote] Ridiculous!!

I've never heard of half of these people. Not sure any truly punk players have contributed vastly to the combined dictionary of electric bass patterns. Maybe Jean Jack Burnell with the riff to Peaches on the Beaches and one or two others (some Oeter Hook parts spring to mind). Surely punk, perhaps more so than most genres, is all about the overall group sound rather than any of its individual components.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1450030877' post='2928953'] It just doesn't sound very good. Mr. Jaco & I are in it for different reasons, basically. [/quote] There are a lot of presumptions there. I suspect some of the deeper reasons we are all in it is to perform in front of people - Jaco, you and I included. And we all show off - some of us just have a greater or lesser technical and musical competence - and at times suffer from misjudgement as to what is or is not musical noodling (or going OTT). Some love the antics of Messrs Townsend and Moon - which sometimes borders on twattery of the highest order IMO - along with some of Jacos antics.

[quote name='chriswareham' timestamp='1450027526' post='2928896'] Bollocks. The vast majority of bass players today don't play Jazz or noodle around, mostly on a fretless, or even play without a pick. I was utterly underwhelmed by Pastorius and in particiular the tedious elevator music of Weather Report. Quite amused by the usual suspects on here who arrogantly claim that someone shouldn't play bass if they can't appreciate Pastorius. They tickle me pink (or possibly blue), since judging by their other posts they're playing in cover or function bands. The typical muso bores who seem to have never written their own material but just mimic others. [/quote] I think I'm probably one of these muso bores who noodles around and has had an open enough mind to have been influenced by a vast range of musicians and genres over the years - and thus am able to play a range of styles etc. The really curious thing is that people often say to me after gigs, we really enjoyed the bass - most groups who come here have bass players who only play a couple of different notes on the first few frets. So audiences enjoy it - even slap!!! Not sure why some bassists or other musicians don't (although I've seldom worked with them). If you were a musician in the mid 70s you would have been as exposed to Jaco, Louis Johnson, Geezer Butler, the bassist in the New Seekers, the ska players, ELO etc etc etc as the punk people (if not more so). Unless you were there at the time you won't understand this as BBC sound bite programmes are notoriously selective and overstate the influence of punk hugely. The NME was (probably still is) notoriously discriminatory towards the 'latest thing' - that being punk then - it was simply that generation's angry young men who happened to include gobbing and fake (or real) self harm in their uniform. They didn't appear to me to be anything different from, say goths or mods in terms of a youth culture. Btw I loved bands like the Sex Pistols and marvelled over their album (though believed it was played by sessions guys it was that good) - so I'm no hater. However I, amongst others in this thread, find it hard to understand how a rational person could dismiss Jacos influence on music - his technique and musicianship speak for themselves. Listen to the theme music to Bergerac - the bass part wouldn't have happened without the influence of Karn and Palladino - both of whom were clearly heavily influenced by Jaco. His influence crossed over the whole musical scene - as did jazz fusion in the mid 70s. A final point of interest - I went to see Herbie Hancock in concert circa 1979 - he played two sets announced as comprising - set 1 jazz - set 2 fusion. The hall was probably 20% full for the first set - over full for the second (comprising hit singles complete with vocoder, current album tracks and funkier head hunters material). The point is, even in the heyday of jazz fusion, 'jazz' was an esoteric and less popular genre. To put this in perspective this was concurrent with the first Star Wars film and that generation - the largest proportion of which were not punks!!!!! History lesson over lol ..........

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1449560420' post='2924560'] He sounds very tallented but I couldn't really hear any notes... just lots of parpy fretless sliding about. [/quote] This along with the aimless noodling remark really makes me wonder whether I've been blessed with super hearing or whether some people have little or no hearing at all. Not all of his stuff is on fretless (a point he used to correct people on back in the day) and apart from live (where his sound was slightly less distinct) the notes are generally very distinct - in fact most genres of music in the late 70s early 80s was characterised by very distinct bass notes and sound. If you don't like jazz or R and B then you're unlikely to listen for long enough to appreciate Jaco. Some of these comments are along the lines of what I would have expected to hear in the 70s from fans of anarchic enthusiastic clanging of the day - aherm punk I think was the genre.

Yes Jaco really was all that!! Supremely gifted musician, arranger and composer IMHO. He could also groove like the best R and B players I ever saw or heard. However, some of his music is, for me, not very accessible - but there again some of it is very much in the Jazz idiom - there is far less accessible jazz music around than Jacos. I have found his blend of jazz and R and B styles to have influenced my playing as much as people like Louis Jonhnson, John Paul Jones, Jamerson, Babbitt and many others but I have picked up a lot of jazzy progressions from Jaco which I would not have otherwise. His work is well worth a listen and some of the stuff with Mike Stern, Joni Mitchell etc may be less jazzy than that from Weather Report. He also influenced a lot of famous people, not least the phenomenal Norman Watt Roy (the bass part to Hit Me With Your Rythmn Stick is stated by Norman as being directly influenced by Jaco)

As you say, you saved up a decent amount if money so you need to spend it wisely - if I was buying a bass in this price range I would:- a) avoid buying things you haven't at least played an example of in a shop, and if possible try the actual bass you're buying b ) go for the style of bass which you prefer - remember there are lots of other valid instruments other than Fender Jazz and Fender Precision clones - not everyone likes these - there's a vast array of music which has been recorded on these basses - and a vast array of equally memorable music and particularly bass played on other makes such as Gibson, Rickenbacker, Musicman etc etc c) don't necessarily plump for something just because of the name on it - when I bought a bass for my eleven year old son many years ago I had a long chat with the guy in the shop over whether I should buy a Squier or one of the other cheap Fender copies - I ended up buying one of the others and he still has that bass, it's been heavily gigged and still sounds good - it's not his number 1 as he now has a Stingray and an Ibamez Musician, both of which are top class basses. d) look at Rickenbacker and Stingray copies - the Sub Sterling by Musicman Ray is an excellent bass for the money (Andertons had a used one when I was there the other day). e) try as many types as you can in shops

My SR5 has a lot more body resonance than the 4 - It creates what I would call a more growly sound - I can't say I've noticed the issue you mention (my 5 is in the 92-08 period when they had ceramic magnet pickups) but I've thought my US Sub 5 can sound a little like that - at least I thought so until I saw a You Tube video of a performance with it - talk about fat sounding!! The upper register popped sound is more like an Alembic (though to me the stage sound was a little thin). It may be worth you checking the pick up height setting, that all the saddle screws are touching the bridge and set the string height/neck relief to factory settings. It's surprising how much difference this can make. I tend to boost my bass and treble EQ a little and cut the mid a little to obtain a Classic Stingray sound. I them use the mid range to make fine adjustment dependent on what the song requires and what the other instruments are doing. The ceramic SR5 is significantly more punchy sounding than the Alnico version in my experience.

[quote name='cana.dan' timestamp='1449502669' post='2924125'] Stingray classic owner here. Love it, the electronics are the same but the body is a slab rather than the contours of the standard one. You also have a 7.25 inch radius. [/quote] Skinny frets, string through body, chrome battery cover. Different finishes and a stunning figured maple neck. I've had mine since they were first introduced in 2010 - it's a stunning bass and has more recently been joined by a classic Sabre bass. My Classic Ray has done a large number of gigs but is still good as new. The sound is great and it's currently strung with TI flats for that real Bernard Edwards sound. I have tried the current AV 63 P bass (sonic blue) and AV 64 Jazz (LPB) - they are both very good (though a recent extended play in a shop on an Adam Clayton Jazz has made me realise the current high end US medals are also v good). No I wouldn't swap my Classic Ray for either - having used it last weekend in a six piece band, just the sound on the Sade songs alone was enough to make me smile inanely - I might have the P in addition but not instead.

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1448819668' post='2918378'] I've seen worse. In fact some of you are probably playing things that I see as worse ... so I apologise. [/quote] I went to a large retailer's shop on Friday and would have tried one of these out but couldn't find one. However they had lots of other basses with funny things like offset contour bodies and four in line headstocks, none of which make any sense at all aesthetically ......... I think you're right et, many of us are probably playing far more ungainly devices than this!! I still can't help thinking there's an element of looking down the nose at entry level basses in this thread though I may have completely the wrong end of the stick!!!

[quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1448813626' post='2918323'] [/quote] I once played in a tribute band - the type involving pink guitars and a lead guitarist with large, 60s style spectacles (like Hiram K Hackenbacker's!!!!) - the guitarist turned up one gig with a whizzo music stand which clipped on to a Mike stand - great for small stages (or pubs) - by Stagg. On pointing out to the owner that the same firm was advertised in my local Greggs as providing part of the ingredient for their chilli con carne he replied rather tersely:- 'no doubt - BUT IT'S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT COMPANY'!!! So there you go guys, you appear to have it completely wrong...... !!

Yeah I spent 45 mins playing one last week at Andertons. It was very nice indeed. It was fun running through various sounds with it and I thought it was a very nice, highly playable instrument. The colour's really gorgeous and I thoroughly enjoyed playing it. I'm actually gassing for a pre CBS so I played this to get an idea of a high end current Fender to compare. As with gsg, I really didn't have any thoughts of it being a signature bass, just a v nice passive US Jazz in a very fetching colour (the signature is actually quite a discreet squiggle on the headstock). Congrats on your bass.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1448582451' post='2916705'] To be fair, I don't like Alembics either - they look like they've got buttocks. It's an arse issue, nothing more. But let's not go there. [/quote] Lol!!

[quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1448579296' post='2916676] Stagg seem totally obsolete when you can buy beginner basses from Yamaha and Ibanez now with no discernible defects whatsoever. [/quote] I would disagree with that. The Stagg bass I referred to in the previous post had replaced a Soundgear the G string of which was inaudible and various pots broke - it did not stand the rigours!!

I've been watching this thread with interest - and marvelling at the armchair diagnosis of a bass which no one seems to have played ......... Apparently it has a solid mahogany body and maple neck so should be resonant and solid. I quite like the look of it with its nod towards Alembic and Gibson. I don't share the sentiment of looking down the nose at bargain basement entry level stuff and presuming it will be no good. I've played Stagg basses and they've been fine for what they are - get a reasonable sound and are playable (and from what I've seen are robust enough to last years as a jam session instrument played by all and sundry). As the purchaser of an Encore Precision copy for my son about 15 yrs ago, it's still going strong, stays in tune and sounds....... Like a Precision!! In fact in spite of having acquired several high end instruments over the years he still occasionally uses the Encore and has not felt the need to replace it with s Fender, such is its ability to make the right generic sound!!! I suspect Messrs Stagg, Encore and Vintage and all the other regular entry level people are actually doing just fine!!

[quote name='Sonic_Groove' timestamp='1448289987' post='2914169'] There are even more great bass players on Ferry's solo albums. Late one's (Boys & Girls on) heavily feature one Mr Marcus Miller!! B PS RIP Spenner & Gusto [/quote] Shared sentiment on AS and JG. If you watch Ferry on the Live Aid video you'll see Marcus sporting a rather new looking modded jazz (his normal one) - it's a shame that his sound (IMO) is not good, and pales into also ran when compared with Pino on fretless Stingray and Trace Elliott with Paul Young elsewhere in the concert. Quite disappointing but then Marcus redeemed himself for me on live Miles films of that era when both his playing and sound were sublime.

[quote name='Mudpup' timestamp='1447968743' post='2911988'] Just received this lovely Stingray today 3eq with maple neck and in a pretty rare colour Autumn Redburst. It's all sparkly in the right light so gotta break out the disco pants! [URL=http://s1271.photobucket.com/user/mudpup1/media/Guitars/_57%208.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/mudpup1/Guitars/_57%208.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://s1271.photobucket.com/user/mudpup1/media/Guitars/_57%2013.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/mudpup1/Guitars/_57%2013.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://s1271.photobucket.com/user/mudpup1/media/Guitars/_57%2011.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/mudpup1/Guitars/_57%2011.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://s1271.photobucket.com/user/mudpup1/media/Guitars/_57%2014.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/mudpup1/Guitars/_57%2014.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [/quote] V nice - love that colour - I have at the back of my mind it may be called Autumn red rise sparkle. EBMM customer services would confirm based on serial number.

[quote name='zawinul' timestamp='1448021129' post='2912337'] Quite literally pissing myself!! best thing ive ever seen!!! [/quote] Oo a Wal as well .......... I learned Teen Town amongst a load of other Jaco stuff probably about 10 yrs ago - I copped out when I realised I was making v v v slow progress on the bass solo on Havona - I got about half way through and realised it was ludicrous even trying to learn it. I've kept Teen Town in my home noodle routine (I have never come across anyone else who can play the other parts!!) and thought - I'll never use it - however I play in a funky/souly blues band and for a laugh I played the first few sections of it as part of a bass solo in Cissy Strut - played in a jam session. What was even more fun was a few acts later a million notes per second bassist was obviously influenced by it and played some out of context descending semi tone stuff. All v tongue in cheek!! I think learning JP stuff and particularly in the context of the chord structure and some of the bass part structures has taught me a lot, which I have used in other, more sensible contexts. As with learning several other things (eg the unison riff in Sir Duke) - Teen Town is a great test to see if that GAS inducing vintage guitar or amp/cab in the shop can keep up - or at least whether your playing of it sounds as good as playing it on/through your own equipment/instrument!! I have to say some I've tried have been an abject failure - such as a 76 Stingray through a flip top Ampeg - which on playing the Sir Duke unison riff had no sound other than fret noise from the top three notes owing to a serious neck issue!! I may not have found that out quite so quickly and emphatically!

Not forgetting all of Gustafson, Spenner and Tibbs played Wal, and got that fabulous sound on Avalon and the like. I'm really surprised that Mr Tibbs played on the single Jealous Guy as it sounds so much like Alan Spenner to be unreal. I think possibly Alan Spenner played on the Woodstock Joe Cocker film - he certainly ranks as one of my favourite ever bass players with groove and note choice/musicality on a par with Jamerson and Palladino - greatly underrated. That whole nucleus of Kokomo played on quite a lot of stuff in the 70s - I have an old Alvin Lee live album (in Flight), which has most of Kokomo on it, including Spenner on bass. Spenner in some ways is interesting in progressing from P bass to Wal. He made a P bass sound absolutely great but the Wal really brought out the nuances of his playing - saw him live at a Kokomo reunion concert in the late 70s using the Wal and the live sound was just unbelievably good - one of the reasons I want one ....

[quote name='LayDownThaFunk' timestamp='1447834399' post='2910703'] Why buy something without even trying it first? [/quote] Unfortunately this is reality for many bass purchases in the UK - I have several Musicman basses all of which have been bought from order or used - mostly without trying them. These days many music shops with one of two exceptions seem to have huge guitar sections and very small bass stock - you may find one Musicman and a few SBMM or Subs but most of what you want would have to be ordered. Same goes for most brands. I guess it just reflects the level of guitar sales compared with bass.