drTStingray

[quote name='No. 8 Wire' timestamp='1447807754' post='2910665'] That's great info. Which gauge of cobalt are you using on the fretless? [/quote] The cobalt flats are 100 80 65 45 (pink pack). They're packaged as Slinky Flatwound.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1447836785' post='2910733'] Not sure they came with flats.. mine didn't. Around 82-ish [/quote] They came with GHS flats up to circa 78 when they changed to GHS rounds. Mine also came with rounds in 1980. BE's was a 77 bass. IMO flats on a Stingray make the biggest difference to the timbre of popped notes and perhaps enable a bit more thump. If you bought yours new JTUK, 1982 is quite a late pre EB and well into the Jackson made period.

[quote name='zawinul' timestamp='1447806742' post='2910658'] Probably my favourite band of all time, I keep discovering new things in their music. . Its got immense groove and technicallry so complex on another planet really!! [/quote] Yes agreed - I love it - 35 yrs or so after first hearing it. I went through a phase of learning Weather Report pieces from transcriptions about 10 yrs ago - I still play Teen Town when practicing at home but have never been able to keep up adequately playing along with the CD!!

There's a review of these basses (4 and 5 string) in Bass Player magazine this month. They also mention the controls but also say the individual elements of the stack knobs are difficult to operate independently - I.e. It's difficult to operate the mid control for instance without moving the mid sweep. I was quite surprised because I'd never seen this mentioned on Basschat or Talkbass despite seemingly hundreds of posts about these basses. Maybe the test ones had unusually finicky controls.

Jaco used an octaver on one section of the song. The live DVD I have of Weather Report clearly shows Zawinul doubling the bass part on a synth with his left hand - seemingly effortlessly - the bass part played by Jaco is great in itself but played together - Incredible.

[quote name='No. 8 Wire' timestamp='1447678358' post='2909411'] Have you also tried TI flats? How do they compare tension wise if so? I really like the low tension of the TI flats but I'm interested in trying out the cobalts. [/quote] I have TI flats on a Classic Ray and EB cobalt flats on a fretless 3 band Ray. The tension is very similar IMO. The TI flats with the 2 band Ray can get a decent slap sound - indeed the band I play in has a couple of songs with slap - one has a solo and I've used the Classic Ray without a problem, simply tweaking the onboard EQ. The fretless with the cobalt flats is quite interesting - the sound is quite unique it's closer to having rounds sound wise but the feel is as per flats. I've wound the mutes on slightly on the E and A strings to get more thump and take the mwah a little - leaving the D and G to sing freely - which they do very nicely. I've played a couple of gigs with it and am very pleased. Well worth the added expense in both cases for me. That said I also have a Ray or two with zingy rounds so can get that fix if desired!! Interesting to see the Nile Rodgers tweet. I read somewhere that Stingrays were shipped with flats until 1978 when they changed to rounds. BEs Ray was a 77 so will have come with flats and he was famously interviewed stating his strings were the ones which came on the bass - I'm guessing that was around 78. Also, as a BE fan trying to emulate his sound with a Stingray from around 1980, the one element i could never get to sound right was the popping on We Are Family - until I played it on my Classic Ray with TI flats. So I think that song was played on the Stingray with flats. I wonder what point he actually changed over?

[quote name='rogerstodge' timestamp='1447436127' post='2907713'] Lefty bass player is Lee Pomeroy, plays left hand with it strung right handed, E string where the G should be?? [/quote] Well done for mentioning this - I'd almost forgotten this was a bass forum!! And you are right - he's also an excellent bass player - love his work with Take That as well.

Sounds great - apparently she played guitar on it as well. More info and a second link in here http://forums.ernieball.com/music-man-basses/61627-carole-kaye-music-man-stingray-bass.html

Nice to hear the intricacies of the bass line beyond the octave line at the beginning. Must say I don't particularly like the bass sound - a little coarse, particularly when heard higher in the mix. I guess the best available at the time and didn't really matter because it would be far less audible through a contemporary Dansette record player or Bush transistor radio. Even less so on MW stations.

[quote name='clarkpegasus4001' timestamp='1446750831' post='2902103'] Thanks, I've seen one with the "letterbox" in the corner but not one as you describe. I wasn't sure if they used the standard oblong type without lettering or not, a bit like the Fender cases. if I can't find one i'll have to get the "letterbox" type. Thanks for your reply. [/quote] Some useful info here - basically as per similar era Stingray - where the guy mentions other makers of the basses after CLF it means Jackson, and subsequently Ernie Ball. Musicman and CLF fell out big time over instrument manufacturing quality issues. It seems relatively rare to find pre EBMMs in original cases. The teardrop ones seem to command quite a price without a bass in them!! http://forums.ernieball.com/music-man-basses/61373-what-correct-case-78-sting-ray.html

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1446681423' post='2901508'] LOL, . I'm not really into funk and groove, stuff like that. [/quote] No problem!!

[quote name='Shonks' timestamp='1446473465' post='2899592'] what's wrong with the pink jazz?? [/quote] That's an unusual Jazz bridge pick up?! Nice colour bass.

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1446680465' post='2901503'] I erm............don't actually like anything he's done , not my thing at all [/quote] Hmm interesting - I don't think I've ever come across another bass player who didn't like Bernard Edwards..... I was merely pointing out he probably didn't use that technique on many of their (Rogers/Edwards songs).

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1446649408' post='2901134'] He had a very distinctive way of playing, using his thumb and finger like a pick. That no doubt contributed to his sound. [/quote] On tracks like Happy Man, Everybody Dance and Dance Dance Dance this can be clearly heard. However he didn't always do this. Notice how close to the bridge he plays on the video (sadly his last performance - and using the Stingray - and sounding exactly like himself despite illness) - fabulous sound (using Trace Elliott plus his 2 band 1977 Stingray) http://youtu.be/M1APFyc_QtQ

Birdland was the first time I heard Jaco and I presumed the initial melody was one of Zawinul's keyboard parts - I was somewhat blown away when I saw Weather Report live and realised it was false harmonics. The thing about Jaco's playing was it being a fusion of contemporary R and B bass style with jazz and rock. But fundamentally an R and B groove. You would not need in the 70s to delve far into R and B or bands like the Crusaders, Herbie Hancock etc to find an upfront bass style (less thump, more zing or pop) characterised by an aggressive but pleasant playing style and phenomenal groove. Remember this was the 70s when you could actually buy music where the bass could be felt and heard - the antithesis of the 60s - so not much place for flatwound strings (although early Stingrays came with them - but the EQ could make them as cutting as you needed). Jaco stood apart owing to his broader musicianship and composition skills, along with developing his own take on R and B and disco style grooves, and a specific sound (although Alphonso Johnson was not far from the sound around the time of Black Market etc). Like others, I find some of his music rather inaccessible, but still marvel at the likes of Teen Town, A Remark You Made; Elegamt People. Suffice to say Jacos was one of THE bass sounds to have (amongst others) back in the late 70s - still is for me - the 70s/80s was a golden age of and for bass players as far as I'm concerned!!

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1446450431' post='2899370'] Supply all the gear for everyone else to thrash? [/quote] Sounds about right - when I did this I provided an LM3 with 2x10 HF cabinet, and a slightly careworn Musicman Stingray - beware the nights no bass players turn up because you will end up playing all night. Several used to turn up to the one I did and they all played my bass. I used to try and get the amp set and the bass set to provide a decent generic sound - rarely did any bass player have a clue how to set an EQ on bass or amp (something I've also found when I've visited other jam sessions - underpowered bass amps with the bass on full on the EQ for example). Dependent on what sort of jam it is, it's always useful to be able to play a few guitar hero songs - eg thin lizzy ones like whole lot of Rosie, boys are back in town etc; sweet child of mine; famous AC/DC stuff if people can sing it, All Right Now; Cream; maybe a little Zeppelin, Quo etc. It really depends on who turns up; 12 bars are always popular, and maybe Beatles songs (Come Together springs to mind, often in very strange keys!) It can be great fun and you may well meet people who you end up in bands or musical projects with.

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' timestamp='1445941369' post='2895519'] then.... he went to his proper Fender Japan MM Model And he also had a MusicMan Stingray 4 as a back up bass [/quote] I'm pretty sure his regular 4 string was made in America in 1977...... and the Musicman is a Sterling fretless piezo - which he now seems to use as his main fretless bass!!

i wish I'd have been there!!

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1445781718' post='2894103'] Some amps/rigs ARE too powerful for the room...My DB750 is... is will rattle the back walls and the drummer is going green. This is the place for the comparivtily 'weedy' 'Class D's .. [/quote] I agree with the first part but as a long time user of an Acoustic 371 with a 1x15 extension cab (from the late 70s), my Markbass LM3 plus 2 X 2x10s sounds more powerful and a damned sight more audible (both from where I stand and from the room). The problem with valve amps is they break up into distortion way before reaching their max output - great for guitar but pants for bass for anything more technical than crunching root 8ths - one of the reasons 70s group's bass players often didn't sound much like the records. It's the main reason why many people stopped using them in the 70s and solid state took over. A very high powered valve amp would not only be too loud for most small gigs but will break your back as well - just like moving a Hammond B3 and Leslie unit around (as we did in the 70s!!). Much as I love Pinos sound with John Mayer, I think he does most of his recording with an ABM and also uses them live at times. These days I believe fridges are for cooling food and drink!!! Love to play through one sometime for fun though (provided I don't have to move it!!)

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1445814621' post='2894496'] Agree with the majority of your post, but not this - everyone should be wearing ear protection when playing. Even if you think your band is quiet, it's still going to be loud enough to damage your hearing. I'm not usually sensible, but I really don't regret using plugs for the last four decades - some of my contemporaries did not and it's really not at all rock 'n' roll to be deaf or have debilitating tinnitus. /lecture [/quote] I agree wholeheartedly Discreet. My point was simply that guitarists and drummers wearing ear plugs can often be immune to the amount of noise they're making. I guess the sensible answer is for the whole band to be wearing ear plugs.

I have concluded, based on playing with a whole range of guitarists, that they hear music differently in terms of band mix than most other people and most if not all play too loud. Some have painfully screechy tone particularly at the front of the audience. I'm talking small club or pub venue type places, and those with very hard acoustics (extensive wood panelling for instance) make it worse, although outdoor gigs are less of a problem. It would certainly help for your guitarist to elevate his amp although if he has hearing deficiency it will probably just inflict more screech on the band. I definitely think there's a issue in bands of individuals (mostly guitarists, singers and drummers) requiring too much in the mix so that the mix sounds unbalanced (compared to a recorded sound) and others turn up to compensate - I've noticed in the band I play in that if I turn up the mid range on my bass (so becoming slightly more clear and prominent) the guitarist usually turn his amp up a few seconds later to regain a position at the head of the mix - regardless of whether the guitar should be up there at that point. Then when he drops out of rhythm for a solo the band suddenly becomes a well balanced unit. Guitarists also seem to eq sometimes with ludicrously boosted bass and treble and scooped mid range (on querying this I was told that this is the classic eq arrangement for that particular type of gear). As I say I'm pretty sure it's all about perception (and maybe a little ego). No easy answer but another way you could go is to get someone independent to either mix the band or at least comment. Added to that elevating the guitar amp. A word of warning with the latter, if hearing is compromised it will possibly make matters worse - I played in a band where the guitarist did exactly this - but had badly compromised hearing and could obviously hear no upper frequencies. It just hurt everyone else's hearing in the band. Guitarists and drummers wearing ear plugs are also bad news in my experience as well!!!!

[quote name='kodiakblair' timestamp='1445418221' post='2891264'] Doc Stingray & Rob Afraid I've got it worse cause I'd like my JG back. Normally I convince myself I don't mind selling it,other times who the hell am I trying to kid [/quote] Now I lament my pre EB Ray which went a similar way but if it had been a Wal I'd be totally depressed. So there's at least three of us in the market for a JG!!!

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1445408272' post='2891194'] Does anyone know who played bass on the Avalon album by Roxy and particularly the track Jealous Guy - from the notes and style it sounds like Spenner to me and likely a Wal?? [/quote] I've since found Alan Spenner played on all but three tracks on Avalon and him and the Wal bass is quoted as being partially responsible for the sound of Roxy in that era. Jealous Guy was a single and it sounds like Spenner on Wal on it.

[quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1445547658' post='2892398'] Loads more info here if you're interested... http://walbasshistory.blogspot.co.uk They came in a floral finish too... ;-) [/quote] Oo nice colour - having looked at your interesting blog site, I see that's the colour of John Gustafson's bass - I could see him playing this in the Ian Gillan band. Do you know whether those leather pick guards deteriorate over time? I seem to remember Alan Spenner's was in a dark colour - in fact looked rather like the darker coloured Mark 1

[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1445445054' post='2891551'] Funnily enough when I bought mine from Allbang and Strummit in 1990ish I was choosing between a Jaydee, the Wal (£450 and £500) and an Alembic (£600). And that Wal is now one of the only things I own that's actually increased in value. The Alembic may have shown a similar increase, but definitely not the Jaydee! [/quote] Spookily enough, I used to rate these as the pinnacle of bass - they're still pretty close for me although Ritters etc are in the mix. To put the prices in perspective I sold my pre EB Stingray in around 87 for £450 IIRC. I was well pleased at the time to get around 25% more than I'd paid for it!