drTStingray

[quote name='Bloc Riff Nut' timestamp='1439503354' post='2843489'] Are there any bridges out therer with a built in mute. Rockenbacker and ernie ball have them. are there any others. I'm sourcing parts for a precision build and would definitely be needing some muting capacity. In Holland you have Elio Martin guitars that sell The Bass Mute, but I get no reply to my emails. [/quote] Fender Mustang (though it's a very similar concept to the Musicman one). A chunk of foam rubber also does the trick - I've used those scouring pads before also (scourer one side and sponge the other) - careful with your bass finish though - when I used one I put it on for certain tracks only and it's easy to put it in the wrong way up and scratch the bass....

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I am a great fan of the late Alan Spenner, listed in your tracks with a Roxymusic track. I loved Alan's work on Kokomo's albums in the 70s - such greasy soul/funk (on a Precision) with a feel not unlike Pino's. I was lucky enough to see him in his Wal days playing at the Roundhouse in a Kokomo reunion concert in the late 70s - now if he sounded good on a Presicion, the Wal sound was a revelation - absolutely fantastic and really displayed the finer nuances of his playing as well as sounding fat and funky - and I further became a Wal fan on seeing Percy Jones' fretless magic with Brand X in that era. I've since played one quite recently at some length in the Bass Gallery and what a bass!! Feel and sounds are perfect - a bass which really creates GAS for me!! Now the wait to save up enough and for one that really appeals visually (the range of facings really look quite different). Ideally I'd love a JG one (as Alan Spenner and John Gustavson) but as there were only 46 made this is probably a tall order. Does anyone know who played bass on the Avalon album by Roxy and particularly the track Jealous Guy - from the notes and style it sounds like Spenner to me and likely a Wal??

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1444919702' post='2887358'] Is it any good for metal? [/quote] How many do you have to try before you find 'the one'

I played my first one in a shop in 197cough cough aherm.......... well you can tell how long ago it was cos it was brand new and stood next to it was a brand new Fender Bass V - I remember thinking that was mighty cool as I'd heard Jack Bruce had dabbled with one - at that time Fender could do no wrong basswise in my eyes and it was years before I realised they were capable of releasing monstrous flops like the bass V and even that peculiar baritone bass V1 thing beloved of Shadows officianados, responsible for Duane Eddy thick twang like melodies on Jet Harris pieces and even by Hank B himself once or twice. Anyway back to Precisions - I really really really wanted one of these back in the day but unfortunately never actually got one, using a Jazz copy for years - probably wasting money on booze and ciggies so I could never afford one. I have spent a sum total of probably a dozen hours in the last 10 years or so trying out countless of them but I still haven't found 'the one' - I have come close but no - unfortunately once or twice I have progressed to trying other makes on the same occasion and thinking to myself - hmmm I'm not so sure I actually NEED a Precision as it is no longer 1968. I'm sure I will buy one one day though!! So I'm not sure you have an obsession or not - when I was obsessed with them I hadn't even noticed my two favourite bass players Jack Bruce and Andy Fraser didn't play them, such was the allure of the Precision (and playing an EB3 NEVER entered my head) - and I also thought that many tracks with nice bass on them were Precisions and it turned out they were Rickenbackers shock horror!! So maybe it is an obsession but who cares as they are good basses - phenomenal in some hands (Alan Spenner, Alan Gorrie, Larry Taylor to name three - before even thinking about the Motown guys). I dunno perhaps we should all just get out a little more....... i think I'm addicted to bass rather than any specific make and maybe that is an obsession in itself.

I have had to play this several times in a band I dep with. I generally use an HH three band Stingray but I did once use a Classic 2 band for it - it makes little difference to be honest and it always sounds fine without effects - one of my band mates picks out the core chords (probably on the first note of each bar) which adds a little soft backdrop. I did try it on a Stingray fretless and whilst sounding great, did not reflect the sound in the recording as well as a fretted Stingray, and in any case, I thought better of trying it live - my fingers are too fat and I'm too impatient to play accurate notes above 12th fret on a fretless!!!

[quote name='kevvo66' timestamp='1443567949' post='2875901'] Not the basses that did my back in , it was the heavy rigs , thank goodness for lightweight cabs we have now [/quote] It's surprising how many people who extol the virtues of lightweight basses hump around gargantuan valve amps and 8 x 10 cabinets. I'm with the OP on this - being concerned about the weight of instruments had never crossed my mind until reading about it on bass forums. I have come across one or two very obviously heavy basses but most are within a pound and a half of each other in weight anyway. However I can see the issue for people with bad backs. I suspect you only get a real choice if you're buying something that is very plentiful in shops or are willing to shell out a lot of money until you find the "right" one. Something most people wouldn't do if ordering a Stingray, Custom Shop Fender or Alembic, say. I have found there is another issue with light Basses. I recently bought a USA Sub Stingray 5 which is extremely light - however I suspect the weight difference is in the body - and as a result it has chronic neck dive when playing seated - compare with my ash SR5 which is heavier and balances better - however on a strap both are fine - the SUB is more comfortable on a long set though.

I think string choice makes a vast difference on any bass but especially fretless. I have a 3 band fretless Stingray and have put Ernie Ball Cobalt flatwounds on it recently. The sound and string attack is quite different but it produces tons of mwah (though always has). The mid range control brings out the upper register well in a band situation. This demonstrates a Stingray fretless recorded well (it ain't me - it's far better lol!!) http://youtu.be/VMVAwUYCn3A

Fabulous - I've seen this before but the performance and musicianship is just great and the sound is spot on. That version of All Right Now has such energy in the guitar solo part especially when they all jam towards the end.

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1442170811' post='2864869'] In my memory it all sounded fantastic but the reality was that the bass in particular sounded awful in early seventies live recordings. So, was the gear really that good? [/quote] Spare a thought for the poor old 60s where live sound was even worse using amps and guitars that everyone now seems to revere. You only have to look at artists like Paul McCartney and Hank Marvin - do they still use the same Vox or whatever amps in more recent years. The answer is no. There is also the role the bass played in the music - 70s TV recordings or live sound with The Average White Band, Free or Bad Company for instance was v good as far as bass was concerned. I was a great fan of Ten Years After and particularly Leo Lyons and saw them live a number of times - their bass sound live (through twin Marshall stacks) sounded vanilla bass to me though the playing was great - fast forward to 83 and he was using a Wal with transistor amp of some sort and the sound was far more authentic to the recorded sound. A lot of bass players moved to Acoustic 370 set ups in the early 70s (especially R and B - but including Family Man Barrett and John Paul Jones amongst others). I think high powered transistorised bass amps made a huge difference - changing to an Acoustic 370 and Stingray in the late 70s from a Jazz and valve set up made a light and day change in my own bass sound. Changing to 10" speakers and a high powered class D completed the sound for me. I think the reverence to 60s and 70s equipment is as much buying into nostalgia as it is quality, perhaps more so. Remember there are a lot of people buying this stuff purely to buy nostalgia (I know of a number of people buying les Paul's or fiesta red strats purely for nostalgia - they can't play although aspire to learn in their final years.

V nice - congratulations. Have you tried the piezo on its own - v interesting sound (well it is on my Bongo).

[quote name='ianrendall' timestamp='1441959748' post='2863209'] Thanks for the replies chaps! Also, why so many holes? [/quote] Some of them are where they hold the items on a stick during manufacturing process (eg painting). Not sure about the Swiss facility....... 😃

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1441970442' post='2863348'] Yeeuch. I always found Rich's big band a bit thuggish. This is too fast (as a lot of Rich arrangements were) and doesn't groove as a result. Great players badly utilised. I love the '8.30' version toneknob mentions. THAT swings like a mofo.[/quote] To be fair, the 830 version is the modified version Weather Report played live after a while. I saw them around the same time as Buddy Rich and they played the swing version then - at the time I was horrified as I really liked the funky version - I was also shocked how loud Jacos singing was in the mix - quite laid back in the album version. The Buddy Rich band is clearly covering the album version. My recollection was the bass player (of the Buddy Rich orchestra) did several solos when I saw them - and the other band members did flamboyant solos - Rich had nothing to worry about as he was an electrifying drummer. Although I always thought of Buddy as a bit in the flash camp my recollection was it was no less enjoyable than other acts I saw at the time (woody Herman, crusaders, herbie Hancock etc). Herbie Hancock did two sets - first one jazz second funk - at least 70% of the audience was in the bar until set 2!! Pops Popwell did a 20 minute odd slap solo with the Crusaders. It was a great time to watch music and be a bass player.

[quote name='ianrendall' timestamp='1441879131' post='2862488'] Took the pickup out of my 2000 'Ray the other night to give the pole pieces a clean and found these numbers underneath. Any idea what they mean? Also took the neck off to have a look - looks like the body is '99 and the neck is '00. [attachment=200424:A.jpg] [attachment=200425:B.jpg] [attachment=200426:C.jpg] [/quote] The 110 70 20 02 is the build code - model; colour; neck; pick guard (02 is white I believe). The other number is the works order code. For anyone who has had a new Musicman delivered in the factory shipping box the codes appear on the labels on the box along with the serial number and other info. The abbreviated body colour is normally stamped in the neck pocket and trans means a clear colour that you can see the wood grain through. If you're interested in getting the full details on the bass EBMM Customer Services will give you that if you give them the serial number - similarly, you could post in the serial number thread on their bass forum. It's seems to be very rare for the necks and bodies to have the same dates exactly as they both appear to be pulled from stock to match the order - presumably for the more popular colours like black, natural or sunburst, this would be especially likely.

I found this very interesting from several angles. Firstly his use of rythmn at times, which I had never noticed on this track before - reminiscent of the same technique in the bass solo in My Gemeration but perhaps further developed. Secondly his sound is very much like a very pumped up version of a P bass with the tone full up. I don't think it's that awful - a bit like a pre punk sound (j j Burnel etc)

Fabulous - I saw the Buddy Rich orchestra a few days before seeing Stanley Clark's band in the mid 70s - I recall it being equally excellent. Interesting brown fretless Precision and some excellent playing.

[quote name='bassintheface' timestamp='1441786241' post='2861667'] ***APPLAUSE** [/quote] Is that vintage applause (I.e instinct rumble) or hi fi (which shows up every marginally out of time clap) 😉

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1441618806' post='2860199'] Vintage: muffled muddy indistinct sound, where not only can you not tell what type of bass is being played, you can't tell what note is being played either. Think "hippopotamus farting underwater" and you're there. Hi-fi: Unforgivingly distinct sound, where every single wrong note and string noise is amplified a thousandfold. Useful for discovering exactly how inaccurate a tab is. [/quote] Now this is much more like it!! I do recall seeing bands in the 70s and sometimes coming away thinking the bass sound rather like indistinct elephant noises, but Tauzero, you've summed it up magnificently "hippopotamus farting underwater" - flappy farty speaker sounds also help, although not obligatory if the bass is truly vintage. Duff hearing from years of playing can also assist (especially guitarists and drummers) who sometimes seem to have a view on what a 'vintage bass sound' should be. Mr Squire RIPs live sound in the 70s did, however at times (though certainly not always) conjure up Discreet's "cutlery drawer down the stairs" imagery. Goodness, this sounds like a wonderful GCSE English question - describe vintage v modern bass guitar sound!!

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1441453559' post='2858998'] Vintage: Proper hefty bass sound with bass played as it should be, as part of a rhythm section. Rugged and manly. Hi-Fi: Widdly-widdly twangy cutlery-drawer-down-the-stairs in your face inappropriate slappy solo nipple-rub for gaylords. I await the backlash with pleasure. [/quote] I enjoy your sentiments Discreet!!! However I have the likes of Andy Fraser, Jack Bruce and Chris Squire as definitely not modern but clearly not vintage as you can hear what they play. I think vintage (UK) = pre 1968 Modern = post late 70s 70s = people listening on new fangled hi fi stereos to people recorded using old fashioned instruments but with high quality recording technique. And Discreet the only thing which ever falls down stairs musically speaking is a drum kit........

[quote name='cana.dan' timestamp='1440788875' post='2853949'] I also think the US SUB's were poplar body's rather than ash. [/quote] True but then so were many of the solid colours and blueburst in the late 80s/early 90s - and most trans red in that period were alder. I've just bought a U.S. Sub 5 from 2003 and it's extremely good. Also v light.

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1440366795' post='2850196'] A cab to the shin generally does the trick! [/quote] Definitely :-)

I did something I never thought I'd do but after a happy hour or so spent with another bass player and guitarist in the Bass Gallery noodling on various elderly Precisions I actually bought a used bass a little later in Denmark St. As my companions wished to look in other shops I was keen to watch as well. I then experienced something I never have before - I became persona non grata in every other shop we went in - 'er we don't allow gig bags in here you'll have to leave it' (in one case behind the counter and another by the door etc etc you get the drift). I thought ah you think I'm a thief going to walk off with one of your guitars - however my gig bag was v obviously loaded!! Needless to say I was less than chuffed with the idea of leaving my new purchase by the door in case someone walked off with it - a fact which appeared not to have even crossed the minds of the gentlemen running said shop. In the one where I was required to leave it behind the counter I rather pointedly opened the gig bag to check it was still there before leaving - well if they don't trust me not to swap my instrument for one of their (cheaper) ones whilst their back is turned why should I trust them not to do the same? I'd hasten to add that no one actually gave any explanation why 'er - we don't allow gig bags in here' - just 'you'll have to leave it here'. Not the best level of customer communication and service in shops inviting you to offload anything up to several thousand pounds on their wares I thought! Anyway apart from feeling a little uncomfortable, no harm done to me, I just found it a bit strange - however if I was an American tourist for instance, it may well have given me a very outraged view of Denmark St and it's outlets, if not the British in general!! I wonder if they confiscate bags when you walk in for fear of someone pinching an effects pedal or guitar pick?

I couldn't agree more - I've just bought a well used 5 in white - still with the checker plate pickguard - absolutely love it and fills my urge for a 2 band rosewood board MM 5. The neck feel reminds me exactly of my Bongo, and I think it has a standard 11 mm radius. Plays and sounds absolutely great. I have just measured my US Sub 5 - outer edge of strings at nut = 44 mm, actual neck width there 49 mm; at 12th fret outer edge of strings, 59 mm, actual neck width there 68 mm. This may be of interest to McNach but it is a very early build, late 2003 bass and although I haven't looked to check it sounds distinctly like it has series wiring (especially noticeable in slap and pop sound higher up the neck). Whatever, it's an awesome playing, sounding and looking bass and I certainly will be keeping it stock - it feels extremely light, to the extent it has significant deck dive when played seated - balances great on a strap and has been gigged several times already. A pity the previous owner put one or two nasty dings in the textured paint finish ......... but hey ho!!!!

The differences in the videos shown are generally between a 2 band or a 3 band EQ Stingray (in one case a U.S. Sterling - which has ceramic pick ups which tend to be a hotter sound), rather than a pre v post EB bass. Your key choice really is whether to go for a 2 band EQ or 3 band EQ. The 3 bands have more mid range at centre detent on the controls than a 2 band and the mid range control is a useful addition. I have lots of Stingrays and much as I love the 2 band EQ ones the 3 bands have more flexibility on the fly in some circumstances (especially when you're playing with a band in a room with boomy acoustics). The second decision will be whether to go for a multi pick up Stingray. These offer even more flexibility as you get a variety of coil selections, in addition to the classic single bridge humbucker soloed. Then how many strings do you want? A U.S. SR5 between circa 1992 and 2008 will come with a ceramic pick up which is slightly hotter in sound - all US SR5s have series/parallel switching also. The U.S. subs are good basses (I just bought a 5 string - and really like it) - effectively you're getting a slab bodied 2 band US Stingray with a rosewood board in cheaper finish - hence the lower cost. So as you can see, there are vast differences across the range (I haven't mentioned cool limited edition runs or the classic series, which have figured necks and other different features) all of these factors account for the differentials in used prices. I would suggest going for a 3 band standard single humbucker bass used - you should get one for around £750. A rosewood board will give you a slightly mellower sound, but the EQ will still allow you to get all the tones you want. Natural is a classic Stingray finish which attracts a surcharge new, which does not seem to be reflected in used prices. Best of luck with choosing.

[quote name='Meypelnek' timestamp='1439234634' post='2841172'] Just read at the EBMM Forum: Music Man is going to discontinue a whole bunch of colours and models from 31 Oct. on. Among the cuts is the whole Reflex and Big Al line - what makes me in particular very sad. The Classic Sabre will only be available in 4 colours. And it seems that most (if not all) piezzo modells are discontinued. Here's the link to the announcement: http://forums.ernieball.com/music-man-basses/61272-discontinued-music-man-list-october-31-2015-a.html [/quote] It appears the classic Sabre is discontinued, which is a great shame IMO, and possibly the classic Sterling - the remainder of the classic line (Stingray and Stingray 5) will be available in four colours only. Also the left handed Bongo is discontinued. Some cool colours disappearing there - and that's a lot of colours discontinued (presumably some of these are made mostly as customer order rather than dealer stock anyway currently). Let's hope they continue to produce some nice limited editions.

I'd love to know what some people think of Keef (presuming we're talking that chap from the Rolling Stones and not Keef Hartley?) I've long been unimpressed with icons who denigrate other bands - both Keef and Ian Anderson )separately) did this about one of my favourite ever bands on one of those bbc4 programmes - notably Ian suggesting the guitar solos were self indulgent and full of notes - hmmm I saw Ian Anderson live with Tull back in the early 70s and I would have said he gave an accurate self description. Back to Keef - he is clearly wrong - FWIW I saw them in 1973 (I think) and thought they were past it being eclipsed by the support band (Billy Preston) - notably Jagger was out of breath after every lunge across the stage and missed the next line of vocals - the only saving grace was Mick Taylor on guitar who was superb. I have mellowed since and quite like them again - I suppose my experience was like seeing the Bay City Rollers in the 80s - an anachronism. I much prefer Mick Fleetwood's take on things - he was waxing lyrical about King Crimson appearing at Hyde Park in the late 60s and said they were astonished at the musicianship - when asked about his own playing he said they kept things simple and in reality couldn't actually play the flash stuff (I guess they were a good unit and Peter Green was an awesome player). So a bit of honesty amongst icons like Keef wouldn't go amiss. I still am fond of the Stones though and am glad I saw them in the short lived Mick Taylor era.