peteb

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1416523914' post='2611261'] Also I would say that about 90% of the members are non- gigging bass players including a few once a monthers. Only 10% are out there gigging on the front lines. But that 90% sure have a lot of opinions about gigging. Blue [/quote] So, pretty much like here then??

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1416607293' post='2611955'] Just goes to show how different we all are I think John East is a lovely guy but I don't get on with his pre-amps at all. I've had a few and have stripped them out of each bass very quickly. In fact, I'm pleased I read this thread because I've got one kicking around that I need to stick up for sale! Personally I much prefer the Aguilar tone. I've had all three at some point or another. I rarely fiddle with mids on a bass (tend to do this on the amp instead) so I don't really need the 3 band option. Even the simple OBP1 can make a big difference to a bass - actually, I'm pretty sure I have a spare one of those somewhere too, plus I've got just the bass to fit it in. Even more pleased I read this now [/quote] Personally I love the East circuits, but I can see why some people don’t like them. They sound awesome (if you want an active ‘super’ jazz tone) but you have to be really careful with the bass on them – anything more than a little is far too much! However, the variable mid control is great for adjusting to a room on the fly without having to touch the EQ on the amp. Great piece of kit, but perhaps not for everybody…

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1416341139' post='2609255'] I agree with Pete. I gig a lot of these low end bars/clubs. 2 Comments; [list] [*]These places look a lot scarier than they actually are. [*]Funny, how they can come up with the $$s to meet our fee and the nicer clubs in the city can't. Or should I say won't? [/list] Blue [/quote] Yep – I've played a lot of biker places and usually they really friendly places if you go in with the right attitude, although one or two can get a bit tasty if you don't. Funnily enough, the least friendly gig I can remember if the past few years was playing a private party at a golf club! Going back to the OP and the reason why we bother playing pubs, last Saturday I played a pub in a tough mining town 30 miles away. I had never been there before and my first impression was that it was a bit of a dive / biker joint, certainly not the sort of place that JT would want to take a lady friend! However everybody was really friendly, the place got packed and they nearly took the roof off. Great night (despite my pre-amp tubes going for the last three songs) and we got an extra £80 in tips from the ubiquitous bucket, not to mention bookings for a couple of bike rallies. A night like that is the reason that we carry on playing the pub circuit...

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1416303154' post='2608755'] Yep, pick you pubs and if the g/f/wife wont go, take the hint that other women might not like it either... That is why you have to vet the pubs and if we wouldn't drink there and neither would our 'fans' we don't play it. [/quote] Good job that the boys playing in Chicago in the 40s & 50s didn't take that approach or we wouldn't have any decent music to play in pubs many decades later...! Actually, I've had some cracking nights playing in places that you wouldn't normally go into without an armed escort...!

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1416234389' post='2608122'] Dammit.......I'm stereotype Si [/quote] I guessed that might be the case when I saw you selling off some basses (I quite fancied the s/b jazz)! [quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1416238669' post='2608174'] Isn't this simply a case of one manufacturer putting a lot more effort into final setup than the other? You can DIY the basic trussrod and bridge saddles to get a playable setup on most instruments, but a skilled luthier who is at the top of their game can really work wonders perfecting the playability of an instrument given sufficient time to get the work done to a high standard - how many mass produced instruments ever get this sort of attention? [/quote] I think that it goes beyond the basic factory set-up (although a good set up always helps)...

I am reminded of a conversation that I once had with Phil from Bass gear about Fodera. He said that he has had several people tell him that they thought that Foderas were overpriced and how could any bass cost that much. He then got them to sit down and actually play one for a bit and then they actually got why you might consider buying one. Apparently, on more than one occasion someone had then gone away and sold all their basses to fund the purchase of the Fodera they had just played. I think that the point of these types of high end basses, once you get past the fancy woods, is the playability. If there is something that you can almost play on a fender, you might find that you can execute it cleanly on a Fodera. I think that is the real justification of thinking of spending that much on a real high end bass...

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1416007122' post='2606210'] No, that has not been my experience with originals bands. My experience has been, originals bands with great material but at the end of the day it was lot's of rehearsals and no gigs. There is no real market for originals bands in Milwaukee. My situation is a bit different. Our 70s style blues/ rock band gigs so much I doubt I would make more money with an agency represented top 40 type band. Per gig, I might walk away with $200.00 in my pocket instead of $100.00. Keep in mind some of these top 40 show bands only gig once or twice a month. Don't get me wrong if the right opportunity came along I would at least investigate. Also those top 40 vacancies don't show up everyday and here there a very clicky bunch. I'll tell you something else about those top 40 agency bands over here. It's where age and look seem to be a lot more important than how well you play. blue [/quote] Actually I the new band that I was talking about is strictly a covers band, playing hard rock from the 80s / 90s. It does a lot better I on the pub circuit than the blues rock band, which plays a quite a bit of original material and tends to play all over the place, concentrating e on the ‘blues circuit’ i.e. dedicated blues clubs and lower down the bill at bigger blues festivals. The top 40s bands round here can make more money and get more gigs as they can play a far bigger circuit. The quality of these bands can differ from very capable to pretty poor, but a lot of them will earn if they are prepared to put the work in!

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1415829555' post='2604343'] Yes, at this point in my playing career, I am in an established gigging band ( 3 years, band has been together for 8 ). I have no interest in [i]"start up" [/i]projects and would never join a band that was only offering a new,unproven musical venture. 30-40 years ago, sure. But not now. For me it's about;[list] [*]Fun [*]Gigs ( as many as possible ) [*]Decent respectable pay, I need the money [/list] Blue [/quote] Don’t you find that at least with ‘start-up’ bands you can control who you will be involved with and what direction the band will take?? In the past couple of years I have been asked to join a number of established gigging bands, none of which appealed to me. However in the same period I have started a band from scratch that is now playing out and doing far better than any of the bands that I could have joined. Also, if making money out of gigging is one of your main motivations then why are you playing bars with a blues rock band? Surely it would make more sense to join an established top 40 type band where you would get more and better paying gigs??

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1415869983' post='2604577'] Same here...as well as some grunge bands.... but it is VERY hard to get more than pub money so they are stuck in pubs and some pubs just wont have them either. The market here is 80's clasic rock..but again no one does it well enough to do more than pubs and cheap parties, Bigger gigs want more modern stuff and too much AC/DC and Muse puts people off. You have to be a lot more imaginative with the set than that....which isn't hard as there are so many songs.... but initially bands go for what they think works with the majority of other bands...( which means the sets are pretty samey ) but the limitaion is a £450 party gig no matter how well you do it...IME. [/quote] Of course you're quite right, except that it's more about the same old songs rather than bands. There is a massive audience for AC/DC stuff (one of the biggest acts in the world) but do they need to hear yet another version of Whole Lotta Rosie. You have to be more imaginative in your set lists to stand out from all the other bands on the circuit. Also you need to be good, like pretty much any other genre! If a band is doing AC/DC or GnR then the singer needs to be able to hack it. If you're also doing Whitesnake type songs, then there is a good chance that the singer will not be able to do both convincingly. Also, FFS get the arrangements right! So many bands of this type cover well known songs and don't relies that sometimes the arrangements are not as simple as you might think. It's getting the details right that make a band stand out and attract a decent following.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1415840574' post='2604462'] I'm not sure how you sell a new band for 80s metal. I think, at least here you might want to sell it as a solely [i]"for fun"[/i] band and make that clear. Anybody from the area knows there is no gigging market for metal bands around here. Blue [/quote] Strangely enough I've just started a new band playing local pubs, etc that plays a mix of 70s & 80s hard rock / metal (WASP, GnR, Cult, Kiss, etc). We have only played 6 or 7 gigs, but one thing for certain is that there is certainly a market around here! We are doing a Steel Panther cover that I thought that no punters would know but I was completely wrong on that one - it goes down really well. An agency backed band playing Lady Gaga tunes will get more gigs and make more money, but there is certainly a market for 80s rock in many areas if you're any good. Despite what many here would like to think, a lot of 30/40 something punters love that stuff...!

I can get no real indication from the ad if the band has any potential or not. Exactly how do you sell a new band to a prospective bass player in an ad anyway?? Word of mouth is always better. If you are the sort of person who likes 80s metal (and I do know a few) then it might be worth a telephone call...

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1415728525' post='2603160'] I think if we were friends it would be harder to get along the way we do. It's a business. Now when I was younger, in my teens 20s & 30s I was probably friends with band members back then, I really think the friends thing works better with younger musicians unless your playing with guys you've known for 40 years. [/quote] Funnily enough, it's been the opposite for me. When I was younger and had higher ambitions I treated it like a business and I didn't care so much if I liked everyone I played with as long as the band was putting itself in a position to have a shot at some kind of success. Now I'm older I can't be bothered with people I don't like and wouldn't play with someone I thought was a d1ck, no matter how good he was! This is especially true for the rock band that mainly plays local pubs. If I got the opportunity for a band that was travelling more & playing bigger gigs then it would not be such an issue, but I still wouldn't play with someone I didn't like...

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1415662823' post='2602588'] Some of this could be cultural differences as well as generational. And I am talking specifically about approaching fans especially those you know were really engaged in the performance ( they're easy to spot ) and saying; [i]" Hi, my name is Blue, I play bass with the band. Hey, I saw you two move from the back up to be closer to us and you stayed for 2 sets. Just wanted say Hi, how are doing and thanks for coming out to see us."[/i] I love doing that and making that sort of connection,learning more about our fans and people that understand and support live bar level Rock. But as you can guess, I am not *shy. Blue * Just so you know, when I was 18 or even in my early 20s I would have not had the confidence to approach anyone and initiate a conversation. At 61, what do have to lose? [/quote] Surely if you are going to go on a stage and make a fool of yourself in front of complete strangers you should be able to put aside any shyness! Most people I know who play in gigging bands are not noticeably shy (whatever age they are)...

I am pretty friendly with all of the people that I play with and we quite often socialise outside of band stuff. They may not necessarily be my best mates, but we are certainly friends. Up until a couple of years ago I was playing in a band of really close mates with no major problems – we are all still pretty close even though the band has packed up, just as we were before it came together. I have played with people that I don’t like in the past but I refuse to do so now, life’s too short… I have always thought that being sociable was an essential part of being a musician. If you are going to do any sort of touring then you are going to be sharing rooms and pretty much living in each other’s pockets for a period of time, so you had better be able to get along with each other and put up with each other’s little eccentricities. There are plenty of great players around but someone would have to be pretty special indeed to get a gig if no one in the band can stand to spend time with them…

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1415655893' post='2602504'] Yeah, that's what it's all about. I come from the generation where just being the [i]"hot band"[/i] or the band with the great guitarist or drummer was enough to keep a following and maintain return business. Unfortunately that's not the way it works anymore, at least not for bands competing for bar and club business. Blue [/quote] I think that still has a part to play but these days you do have social media - facebook is a really efficient way of promoting a band at pub level (basically the only promotional tool we use) and helps you to build a relationship with the people who come to see you and therefore build up a following. It obviously doesn't hurt to chat with the punters, but that is no hardship in the vast majority of cases unless you have real issues with shyness. The main thing is to remember to entertain your audience and differentiate yourself from other similar bands and word of mouth (backed by facebook) will do the rest. We keep the setlist pretty focussed and aim at a particular audience (hard rock) that is prepared to come out to watch live bands in pubs. Also, although the majority of our audience will know pretty much all of the songs we play we make a point of not playing the most obvious tunes. Therefore when we do a AC/DC song it isn't Whole Lots Rosie or Highway To Hell and we avoid Sweet Child of Mine when we pay GnR. Hopefully that helps to make us stand out from every other rock band that they have seen recently! Fortunately it seems to be working so far...

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1415352837' post='2599435'] I see you went for the quintessential "Englishman on holiday" combo of vest, shorts and sandals... good stuff... [/quote] But no sunburn or bad tattoos! Could be seen as letting the side down...

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1415290267' post='2598864'] Ah - the old "can of worms" question again.... This could get interesting! My own opinion is that they are not worth the vast sums they cost. To be fair, I haven't played one... [/quote] I have played one and it was a genuinely exceptional instrument, but was it twice as good as a Roscoe?? There are a lot of really excellent instruments around the £2-3k mark, so it has to be something special to justify the type of prices that a Fodera will go for. But they are very very good...

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1415130335' post='2597094'] I like the attention, you know even at the bar level, people love approaching musicians for a chat.You have all heard this one; [i]" I use to play in a band"[/i]. You know what I say about fun; [i]I have fun while playing, however I don't play for for fun. I play for money.[/i] You really have to understand that very few people get paid to do something they truly like doing. I remember some guy that worked in a retail store was telling me he loved his job. My response; [i]No You Don't[/i]. Blue . [/quote] I play for fun rather than the money. However, I wouldn't dream of playing a normal pub gig without getting the going rate. There are two reasons for that: first I have a skill that can generate revenue for other businesses and I don't see why I shouldn't get a fair share; and secondly if you play for nothing you are putting a value on your services ie. nothing! If a landlord has to invest in paying you a reasonable fee, he will place a higher value on your services and make sure that he promotes the gig, etc and generally treat you well in order to protect his investment! Having said that, I am quite happy not to get any money for a special event if I think that it will be worth it (be it to help a friend or just for the fun of it). I've had some great nights, played with some cool musicians and made some good friends just by helping people out. Not to mention I have got some work out of it and had favours returned. It doesn't always have to be about money, even though in 99% of cases I do expect to be paid...

Now there's a coincidence! I have just come across this clip elsewhere on the web this very evening! Very useful it is too. One question, I always understood (perhaps wrongly) that the muscles that supported the spine were also considered core muscles. Can you suggest any resources that demonstrate Pilates exercises to strengthen that group of muscles? Cheers, Pete

I'm a musician and I like to play. Obviously we all look forward to the bigger and better gigs (in my case bigger clubs and the occasional motorcycle rally) but the majority of the work is in the pubs (or bars). If I'm playing with a decent band to a decent audience that's fine by me - playing the right pub gigs can be a lot of fun. I rarely play to an unappreciative audience. Both bands that I am in concentrate on playing places where we are likely to get a crowd that will be into the stuff that we do and we do our best to make sure that we deliver a convincing performance. Picking and choosing gigs may mean that we are not out every weekend or have to travel a bit, but we still keep reasonably busy. As far as the money is concerned, I am always aware that times are hard for both punters and pubs alike. I don't make as much as I have done in the past, but we still do ok (ie. It wipes it's own a*se as we say over here). I don't think that anyone can make a reasonable living playing at that sort of level...

Changing from a BBOT to a high mass bridge WILL make a difference to your sound. You will get noticeably more sustain and send a stronger signal to the amp / desk with a slightly fuller tone. You will also get a tighter feel to the instrument (which I prefer) and it will be easier to adjust. Whether you like this slightly stronger sound is of course up to you. I do but if you want to recreate vintage Jamerson type tones then it isn’t really going to help you in that! FWIW I have always upgraded the bridges on every Fender I have owned (including the jazz that I currently have), with the exception of a Nash that I had for a while.

Last time I saw Katie Bradley / Dudley Ross they had my mate Sean Fitzpatrick depping on drums

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1414623738' post='2591652'] As far as I know, Dudely and Katie would have been on that gig......Not sure of the rest of the band and if they are on every date. It sounds like they have had some good gigs tho [/quote] Yes they were, with Roger Inniss on bass. I don't know the drummer - Wes something??