peteb

An interesting idea for a thread. When it comes down to it, I'm a bass player and the process for playing originals or covers is essentially the same. I started off playing covers in my mid-teens then exclusively played original material for ten years or so. After a break of a year or so I started playing covers in pubs / bike rally circuit with the occasional foray into the WM clubs. In the last few years I've been playing the blues curcuit and started playing some original material again (or as original as you get playing blues)! Like the OP, I have never been the main writer in a band. In fact, most of the original songs I'm playing now have been written by the singer with a guy who is not in the band, even thru me and the guitarist have written a couple of things or re-written some of the songs he has brought to us. As long as the songs work, who cares who wrote them?? I'm a musician and I like to play (money is secondary these days but I still expect to get paid). I don't care too much who wrote the material - just that the band is good, it gets decent quality gigs and can pull an audience...

Another one here happily using Monster cables for years. However, I do get all of my speaker cables from obbm...

[quote name='Horizontalste' timestamp='1417604628' post='2622094'] Thanks Pete, my interest has definitely been spiked by some of newer guys. I'm particularly enjoying The Jon Amor Blues Group. I haven't worked on walking lines for years so I'll make time for that too. I'm realising now that everyone does the Standards in a different way so I'll absorb as much as I can from the different player's. It's reignited my interest to be honest, think my playing had become stagnant recently. cheers Steve [/quote] Keep listening to the more contemporary stuff and I am sure that you will be on the right lines. I have sent you a link by PM that you might like if you are interested in Jon Amor - hope that you enjoy it...

[quote name='Horizontalste' timestamp='1417430401' post='2620152'] After over a decade of playing rock covers I've decided that a new band is in order after Christmas with a new direction. I'm at the point now where if I have to play sex on bloody fire again my head will explode. That said, I'm interested in looking at the blues (I know, it's a feeling not a genre) as there is something about the idea that I like. There are a few bands around here that are respected and I'm going to make time to go out and see them over the next few weeks to get a feel. But in the interim, I guess the advice I'm looking for is who should I be listening to and what do you blues guys consider to be the Standards that work in the pub/club environment? I intend to fully emerse myself in it over the whiskey fuelled festive period and to build up my blues repertoire to give me a shot at auditions in the new year. Cheers Steve [/quote] As someone who has always played rock but in the last few years has started playing a fair bit of blues, I would suggest that you listen to a few of the new guys on the circuit rather than just exclusively to the old classics. You might pick up on how things have subtlety changed in terms of tone and approach, etc. You could start by searching for guys like Travis Carlton playing with Kirk Fletcher on YouTube (picked purely as I was listening to him today) or many others who picking up the blues gigs today. You will find that the arrangements in blues are a lot more fluid than rock and that you will rarely play a song the same way twice. Also, you will need to learn how to play a walking bass line and keep it going for as long as necessary (I used to practice by playing a simple song like ‘Boom Boom’ for 15 minutes or so at a time and changing the line every second chorus). I would suggest that that you memorise a library of riffs and also work out as many different ways that you can think of playing the changes from the I to the IV, the IV back to the I and then up to the V, etc so that you are not just relying on simple chromatic runs all of the time. There are some decent blues gigs out there and I have had loads of fun and played all over country on the blues circuit (from the south coast up to the Orkneys)! However, be aware that in many places a decent rock band will tend to draw more people to the average pub gig than an equally good blues band. The better gigs are in blues clubs, pubs that have a specialist blues night or the many festivals up and down the country…

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1417355157' post='2619438'] The last two bands I've joined have set out to do something different, you get two songs in and "do you do any kings of leon, sweet home alabama, sweet child?" etc , I suppose you have to give them what they want? [/quote] No – I would say that one of the biggest mistakes you can make is pandering to the audience too much! Obviously you have to play stuff that your audience knows and likes but if you let them in effect choose the set list, then even though you will get a good reception you will always be yet another band playing the same old songs that every other band does. None of our set list would be on any list of overplayed tunes yet anyone with a passing interest of the genre (I try to discourage people from promoting us as Classic Rock) would know pretty much every tune. Therefore, when we play Guns n’Roses tunes we bring out Nightrain rather than Sweet Child and we play Sin City rather than Whole Lotta Rosie for the AC/DC tunes. The audience knows every song but doesn’t hear the same as every other band playing the pub circuit and we seem to be picking up a decent following after a handful of gigs…

Can't believe that no one has come up with Sweet Child of Mine yet?? Also, I would submit Whole Lotta Rosie & Enter Sandman...

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1417083139' post='2616843'] Of course you need to take into account the gig but if you are doing a posh date in LOndon for good money, then you make sure you wear proper shoes... even if you have to change into them. Shoes tell you a lot ... [/quote] Absolutely - and nothing screams rock n'roll as loudly as a pair of highly polished black wingtips...!

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1416870885' post='2614663'] The thing is, charity is a very individual thing. While some of us might be very happy playing at a benefit gig for a new roof for the mosque or a fundraiser for cats suffering from Feline AIDS, others may not. [/quote] Fair enough - I am assuming that you are happy that the cause is worthwhile as well the event is legit and not just an excuse for someone to make money for themselves. The point is that doing the odd freebie is not going to hurt the majority of people here...

I am playing a charity event next weekend and not only will I be playing for free, I will be making a modest donation as well. I will not be the only one doing this. I know the people organising the event (in honour of a very good friend of a lot of us) and I know that they won’t be making a penny out of it. Also, I understand that the venue are letting them have the room for free (although I imagine the bar staff will get paid)! I am getting to an age where a few friends are starting to leave us all a bit earlier than expected. I have been surprised to learn at a couple of funerals in the past few years that the guest of honour had been very quietly (yet significantly) involved in various charities / fundraising and giving their time to help the less fortunate. This made me think that perhaps I really do not do enough myself – playing the occasional gig for free is the very least that I can do… If you don’t trust the organiser of a charity event then don’t play at it. If it is legit, then don’t make a fuss and just help out where you can…

I have just got one of the new Bass Sleeve bags. It's a nice bit of kit and does the job it's supposed to, although I'm not too sure about the storage pouch and a small compartment to put keys / phone would be nice. Still a nice bag and comfortable enough to wear on your back. I also have a double iGig bag, which is great and has lots of storage, etc.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1416523914' post='2611261'] Also I would say that about 90% of the members are non- gigging bass players including a few once a monthers. Only 10% are out there gigging on the front lines. But that 90% sure have a lot of opinions about gigging. Blue [/quote] So, pretty much like here then??

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1416607293' post='2611955'] Just goes to show how different we all are I think John East is a lovely guy but I don't get on with his pre-amps at all. I've had a few and have stripped them out of each bass very quickly. In fact, I'm pleased I read this thread because I've got one kicking around that I need to stick up for sale! Personally I much prefer the Aguilar tone. I've had all three at some point or another. I rarely fiddle with mids on a bass (tend to do this on the amp instead) so I don't really need the 3 band option. Even the simple OBP1 can make a big difference to a bass - actually, I'm pretty sure I have a spare one of those somewhere too, plus I've got just the bass to fit it in. Even more pleased I read this now [/quote] Personally I love the East circuits, but I can see why some people don’t like them. They sound awesome (if you want an active ‘super’ jazz tone) but you have to be really careful with the bass on them – anything more than a little is far too much! However, the variable mid control is great for adjusting to a room on the fly without having to touch the EQ on the amp. Great piece of kit, but perhaps not for everybody…

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1416341139' post='2609255'] I agree with Pete. I gig a lot of these low end bars/clubs. 2 Comments; [list] [*]These places look a lot scarier than they actually are. [*]Funny, how they can come up with the $$s to meet our fee and the nicer clubs in the city can't. Or should I say won't? [/list] Blue [/quote] Yep – I've played a lot of biker places and usually they really friendly places if you go in with the right attitude, although one or two can get a bit tasty if you don't. Funnily enough, the least friendly gig I can remember if the past few years was playing a private party at a golf club! Going back to the OP and the reason why we bother playing pubs, last Saturday I played a pub in a tough mining town 30 miles away. I had never been there before and my first impression was that it was a bit of a dive / biker joint, certainly not the sort of place that JT would want to take a lady friend! However everybody was really friendly, the place got packed and they nearly took the roof off. Great night (despite my pre-amp tubes going for the last three songs) and we got an extra £80 in tips from the ubiquitous bucket, not to mention bookings for a couple of bike rallies. A night like that is the reason that we carry on playing the pub circuit...

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1416303154' post='2608755'] Yep, pick you pubs and if the g/f/wife wont go, take the hint that other women might not like it either... That is why you have to vet the pubs and if we wouldn't drink there and neither would our 'fans' we don't play it. [/quote] Good job that the boys playing in Chicago in the 40s & 50s didn't take that approach or we wouldn't have any decent music to play in pubs many decades later...! Actually, I've had some cracking nights playing in places that you wouldn't normally go into without an armed escort...!

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1416234389' post='2608122'] Dammit.......I'm stereotype Si [/quote] I guessed that might be the case when I saw you selling off some basses (I quite fancied the s/b jazz)! [quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1416238669' post='2608174'] Isn't this simply a case of one manufacturer putting a lot more effort into final setup than the other? You can DIY the basic trussrod and bridge saddles to get a playable setup on most instruments, but a skilled luthier who is at the top of their game can really work wonders perfecting the playability of an instrument given sufficient time to get the work done to a high standard - how many mass produced instruments ever get this sort of attention? [/quote] I think that it goes beyond the basic factory set-up (although a good set up always helps)...

I am reminded of a conversation that I once had with Phil from Bass gear about Fodera. He said that he has had several people tell him that they thought that Foderas were overpriced and how could any bass cost that much. He then got them to sit down and actually play one for a bit and then they actually got why you might consider buying one. Apparently, on more than one occasion someone had then gone away and sold all their basses to fund the purchase of the Fodera they had just played. I think that the point of these types of high end basses, once you get past the fancy woods, is the playability. If there is something that you can almost play on a fender, you might find that you can execute it cleanly on a Fodera. I think that is the real justification of thinking of spending that much on a real high end bass...

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1416007122' post='2606210'] No, that has not been my experience with originals bands. My experience has been, originals bands with great material but at the end of the day it was lot's of rehearsals and no gigs. There is no real market for originals bands in Milwaukee. My situation is a bit different. Our 70s style blues/ rock band gigs so much I doubt I would make more money with an agency represented top 40 type band. Per gig, I might walk away with $200.00 in my pocket instead of $100.00. Keep in mind some of these top 40 show bands only gig once or twice a month. Don't get me wrong if the right opportunity came along I would at least investigate. Also those top 40 vacancies don't show up everyday and here there a very clicky bunch. I'll tell you something else about those top 40 agency bands over here. It's where age and look seem to be a lot more important than how well you play. blue [/quote] Actually I the new band that I was talking about is strictly a covers band, playing hard rock from the 80s / 90s. It does a lot better I on the pub circuit than the blues rock band, which plays a quite a bit of original material and tends to play all over the place, concentrating e on the ‘blues circuit’ i.e. dedicated blues clubs and lower down the bill at bigger blues festivals. The top 40s bands round here can make more money and get more gigs as they can play a far bigger circuit. The quality of these bands can differ from very capable to pretty poor, but a lot of them will earn if they are prepared to put the work in!

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1415829555' post='2604343'] Yes, at this point in my playing career, I am in an established gigging band ( 3 years, band has been together for 8 ). I have no interest in [i]"start up" [/i]projects and would never join a band that was only offering a new,unproven musical venture. 30-40 years ago, sure. But not now. For me it's about;[list] [*]Fun [*]Gigs ( as many as possible ) [*]Decent respectable pay, I need the money [/list] Blue [/quote] Don’t you find that at least with ‘start-up’ bands you can control who you will be involved with and what direction the band will take?? In the past couple of years I have been asked to join a number of established gigging bands, none of which appealed to me. However in the same period I have started a band from scratch that is now playing out and doing far better than any of the bands that I could have joined. Also, if making money out of gigging is one of your main motivations then why are you playing bars with a blues rock band? Surely it would make more sense to join an established top 40 type band where you would get more and better paying gigs??

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1415869983' post='2604577'] Same here...as well as some grunge bands.... but it is VERY hard to get more than pub money so they are stuck in pubs and some pubs just wont have them either. The market here is 80's clasic rock..but again no one does it well enough to do more than pubs and cheap parties, Bigger gigs want more modern stuff and too much AC/DC and Muse puts people off. You have to be a lot more imaginative with the set than that....which isn't hard as there are so many songs.... but initially bands go for what they think works with the majority of other bands...( which means the sets are pretty samey ) but the limitaion is a £450 party gig no matter how well you do it...IME. [/quote] Of course you're quite right, except that it's more about the same old songs rather than bands. There is a massive audience for AC/DC stuff (one of the biggest acts in the world) but do they need to hear yet another version of Whole Lotta Rosie. You have to be more imaginative in your set lists to stand out from all the other bands on the circuit. Also you need to be good, like pretty much any other genre! If a band is doing AC/DC or GnR then the singer needs to be able to hack it. If you're also doing Whitesnake type songs, then there is a good chance that the singer will not be able to do both convincingly. Also, FFS get the arrangements right! So many bands of this type cover well known songs and don't relies that sometimes the arrangements are not as simple as you might think. It's getting the details right that make a band stand out and attract a decent following.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1415840574' post='2604462'] I'm not sure how you sell a new band for 80s metal. I think, at least here you might want to sell it as a solely [i]"for fun"[/i] band and make that clear. Anybody from the area knows there is no gigging market for metal bands around here. Blue [/quote] Strangely enough I've just started a new band playing local pubs, etc that plays a mix of 70s & 80s hard rock / metal (WASP, GnR, Cult, Kiss, etc). We have only played 6 or 7 gigs, but one thing for certain is that there is certainly a market around here! We are doing a Steel Panther cover that I thought that no punters would know but I was completely wrong on that one - it goes down really well. An agency backed band playing Lady Gaga tunes will get more gigs and make more money, but there is certainly a market for 80s rock in many areas if you're any good. Despite what many here would like to think, a lot of 30/40 something punters love that stuff...!

I can get no real indication from the ad if the band has any potential or not. Exactly how do you sell a new band to a prospective bass player in an ad anyway?? Word of mouth is always better. If you are the sort of person who likes 80s metal (and I do know a few) then it might be worth a telephone call...

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1415728525' post='2603160'] I think if we were friends it would be harder to get along the way we do. It's a business. Now when I was younger, in my teens 20s & 30s I was probably friends with band members back then, I really think the friends thing works better with younger musicians unless your playing with guys you've known for 40 years. [/quote] Funnily enough, it's been the opposite for me. When I was younger and had higher ambitions I treated it like a business and I didn't care so much if I liked everyone I played with as long as the band was putting itself in a position to have a shot at some kind of success. Now I'm older I can't be bothered with people I don't like and wouldn't play with someone I thought was a d1ck, no matter how good he was! This is especially true for the rock band that mainly plays local pubs. If I got the opportunity for a band that was travelling more & playing bigger gigs then it would not be such an issue, but I still wouldn't play with someone I didn't like...

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1415662823' post='2602588'] Some of this could be cultural differences as well as generational. And I am talking specifically about approaching fans especially those you know were really engaged in the performance ( they're easy to spot ) and saying; [i]" Hi, my name is Blue, I play bass with the band. Hey, I saw you two move from the back up to be closer to us and you stayed for 2 sets. Just wanted say Hi, how are doing and thanks for coming out to see us."[/i] I love doing that and making that sort of connection,learning more about our fans and people that understand and support live bar level Rock. But as you can guess, I am not *shy. Blue * Just so you know, when I was 18 or even in my early 20s I would have not had the confidence to approach anyone and initiate a conversation. At 61, what do have to lose? [/quote] Surely if you are going to go on a stage and make a fool of yourself in front of complete strangers you should be able to put aside any shyness! Most people I know who play in gigging bands are not noticeably shy (whatever age they are)...