peteb

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1410260556' post='2547531'] I think the number of band members can certainly be a factor when you are looking at prices. One of the bands I regularly work with does a few (6 or 7) pub/club dates a year and the price we ask for is based on x amount per man. If places want to put on an 8 piece professional band, they are generally prepared to pay more than they would to a 4 piece. [/quote] Why?? Surely their only concern is how many punters the band draw, not if they need eight musicians to achieve that or if they can manage with four! Strange way of doing business...

[quote name='phil.c60' timestamp='1410216334' post='2547320'] I'm not sure what knocking out endless cheesy covers at party or wedding gigs for admittedly what sounds like good money makes you in any way superior. Just pursuing your own ends, as is everyone else, whether that's money, fun or simply a need to get out there and perform to the best of your ability and hope people like it ( which is where I fit in...). [/quote] Of course there isn’t – different strokes for different folks, etc! What some people like JT don’t like is that the guitar player is very often pushed to the front in a three piece (but not always by any means) as there is no singer-frontman to share the limelight or a keys player to share solos and the tenor or high musical registers. They also don’t like that someone in a trio will make twice as much as those in a six piece playing the same gig and have less gear to cart around and probably need less rehearsal, etc! I like trios; both to play in and to listen to. There is definitely a knack to playing in a three piece – knowing where to create space and how to fill it when necessary. Not everybody can manage to pull that off…! I would also agree that I would much rather play to a crowd that have specifically come to listen to a particular band playing music (in a pub or elsewhere) rather than just be the entertainment at a party where you have to try and please everyone in the room, even though they may all have completely different musical tastes…

[quote name='silverfoxnik' timestamp='1410126575' post='2546475'] Just read this thread not knowing who Lincoln is, but he sounds like a really inspiring human being and obviously, a fine, fine bass player. Sad news indeed! [/quote] Same here - sounds like a great bloke...!

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1410211896' post='2547263'] The 3 piece bands aren't that good... all gtr solos and it takes a very very special player to make that interesting for anywhere near an hour, let alone 2 sets. Out of all the bands that do the dates around here, the gtr bands really focus on the gtr...the P.A is an after thought as are the vocals. Forget about lights as well, so all in all, no, they aren't worth their fee, IMO....but hey, they play blues, they must be cool And...they don't pull in the punters either, so I really don't know how they get gigs.. [/quote] They must be doing something right to keep getting the gigs! As far as the solos goes, that depends on the audience – some love that kinda thing, you don’t… Not all three pieces play blues – there are plenty of pop-rock trios around…

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1410103005' post='2546116'] A 3 piece that goes out for £150 grosses per man the same as a 5 pc £250 band, of course, but altho the 3 pieces round here might ask..and get £300... their justification is because the are full time...as if that is any justification in itself, and they are certainly not regarded as the best bands in musical terms. They seem to have had to drop their prices by and large and you can say that times are hard etc etc ... but mostly I'd say that that they have been found out. [/quote] I don’t see why you think it matters how many are in the band?? Punters just want to see an entertaining band – they couldn’t care less if it is a three piece or an eight piece, just as long as they are good! There is no reason why a landlord should pay a band with a full brass section, two keyboard players & a Latin rhythm section any more than a three piece, nor should he concern himself whether the band is full time or consists of semi-pros. The only thing he cares about is are they any good and more importantly, can they draw a crowd in his boozer (as you say in the first half of your post)! Talking about how many members are in the band just confuses matters and is completely irrelevant...

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1409841609' post='2543859'] peteb - I just looked at the 'Balls To The Wall' page and noticed Neil Saxton is in it. An old schoolmate of mine left at 16 (I stayed on for A levels) and one of his earliest jobs was working in the same place as Neil in Cleckheaton where we grew up, probably around the time he was getting Baby Tuckoo together. I did eventually see BT but not until mid 80's after I'd moved to Nottingham. Small world. [/quote] I first met Neil (or Sak as he is generally known around here) when Baby Tuckoo first started gigging about the time I started regularly going to pubs. They became the big local rock band, packing out the likes of the Vaults Bar in Bradford. When I got my first P bass, I lent it to their bass player (Smiggy) a couple of times when they had a bigger gig where an agent was supposed to come and see them! I'm guessing that you must be around my age and must know quite a few of my mates / ex girlfriends, etc who came from around Cleckheaton. Small world indeed!

[quote name='Adrenochrome' timestamp='1409746966' post='2542892'] +1 Agree with that, I'm mainly depping now apart from my acoustic side project. [/quote] Assuming that you are still local, there is a rock band looking for a dep on Saturday night (I have depped for them a couple of times before but unfortunately I can't make this one). Drop me a PM if you are interested and I will pass your details on to them (assuming that they are not already sorted)...

Remember the name from when I was a kid but never saw them. Looked at the clip and thought that the drummer (John Mylett) was a bit useful, despite seeming to have his rack toms set up ridiculously high! Unsurprisingly, a brief google search shows that he was linked to a number of top bands (including AC/DC, Iron Maiden and Marillion) and turned down the gig with Ozzy Osbourne. Unfortunately he was killed in a car crash on holiday in Ibiza in the early eighties. Apparently the Marillion song ‘Mylo’ on the Misplaced Childhood album was written about him…

One of my heroes and a big influence. The live album (Go For What You Know) is a good place to start if someone has never heard Mars / PT Band before. In terms of chops they must be one of the best rock & roll bands ever and Mars is a serious bass player - very underrated...

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1407177559' post='2518109'] From last weekend's gig with pianist Ivo Neame (from Phronesis). It is always a strange experience enjoying playing as well as you can and really getting that buzz whilst also knowing your not even close to the level of Jasper Holby or many of the other people your frontline players regularly play with. [/quote] Dude - you are just a little bit too self effacing! You are sharing a stage with these people and playing with guys who regularly work with them. That doesn't make you as good as them, but they obviously think that your contributions are far from worthless otherwise they wouldn't be playing with you...

Quite like this one from tonight's gig...

[quote name='MB1' timestamp='1406733055' post='2514185'] 'peteb' I would say that the best analogy is probably that playing a relic’d bass is like making love to a beautiful woman – who has had a boob job! You might prefer the idea of the real thing but when it actually comes down to it, does it really matter?? MB1. You are Swiss Toni and I claim my £50 [/quote] At least somebody got the reference! If it is a good bass and it looks ok (for whatever reason) does it really matter about what particular finish it has ; be it relic, natural, fancy 'expensive coffee table' type thing or a solid paint job? Things (and people for that matter) can be attractive for different reasons so why get hung up on it??

I know some pretty competent players who play that tune (and others) on a 5 string by detuning the E string. Obviously you can play it on a 5 string that way...

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1406659411' post='2513536'] No, as has been proved earlier in this thread it is perfectly possible (if a bit harder) to play it on a conventionally tuned 5-string bass. From my PoV if I was going to play a bass line like this that required a low D and it was too complex to play without using the open string I'd want an instrument strung with something more substantial than a standard E string detuned a tone. To my ears the open D in that example is so undefined as a note that any percussive bass sound could replace it. I only becomes defined because we've already heard the note in the octave higher guitar part, so the brain fills it in. What bothers me most about this, is that there appears to be a weird unwritten rule that states the bass should automatically match whatever tuning the guitarist is using, when a lot of the time there is no real need and often the fact that the two instruments can't easily double the parts could actually lead to some more interesting harmonic ideas. [/quote] No, a few people have said 'oh yes, I could play it on a 5 string' but I have yet to see anyone do so convincingly. The whole point of the arrangement is the contrast between the half time feel on the the chorus and intro and the main riff that kicks in and motors along. They may be able to play the notes but they will struggle to nail the feel of the song, what with the fingering stretches required and the slightly awkward dampening. And why should they when they could simple detune the E string by a step? There is no rule to say that the bass has to double the guitar, but equally there is no reason why it shouldn't if the song requires it. This particular song is written around a reasonably fast open string riff and it makes sense for the bass to fill out the bottom end by rumbling on below the guitars playing the riff an octave lower...

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1406656753' post='2513495'] Well on the evidence of that, the only time the riff has any real clarity is when the guitars do the same thing an octave higher To my ears the low D has been reduced to a rhythmic clank rather than a proper note. [/quote] The point is to play that part correctly you need the open drop D. You may have played that part differently if you had been on the original session, but then again you aren't a multi-platinum selling artist! Thanks to Juliet for posting the video - I have just been asked to do a dep on Saturday and this is one of the tunes that I will have to dust off, so very timely...

I would say that the best analogy is probably that playing a relic’d bass is like making love to a beautiful woman – who has had a boob job! You might prefer the idea of the real thing but when it actually comes down to it, does it really matter??

Suffragette City – Summer of 77

I think that the wording is fine; just that they are asking for the world for what is basically what we over here would call a function band! Even if I was the slightest bit interested in the gig, I would be put off by their rather dogmatic insistence on non-smokers (and I gave up smoking 9 years ago)…

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1406026903' post='2507565'] In 30 odd years of gigging I still get called a guitar player , asked why my guitar only has 4 strings , asked if I 'really need all that gear ' , told we're brilliant when we've had an off night , told we're sh*te when we were excellent , told the reason we won't do the Kings of f***ing Leon must be because we can't play it - I've seen excellent musicians ignored , piss taking jokers lauded as brilliant , guitarists judged as some kind of deity on how fast they can move their fingers even though they couldn't keep time with a Rolex , bands putting an interesting spin on a cover told they 'got it wrong' - how long need I go on. Your average punter hasn't got a clue mate. That's fair enough - I don't know how an engine works or how to fix a computer , each to their own etc. I'm happy to go out and entertain and be friendly towards punters - they're no better or worse a human being than I am ( and thankyou very much for the foreign holidays and the narrowboat) but as someone who has spent a lifetime striving to be a decent player and who has learned the sense in recognising good music and good playing even when its not to my taste or not my instrument I refuse - and will continue to refuse - to accept the musical opinions of a Friday night drinker as anything other than inferior to my own or those of my playing peers whos effort and experience based views I've come to regard as worthwhile and command my respect. [/quote] But I have been playing as long as you (and presumably in some of the same places seeing as we are not located that far apart) and generally punters are fine with me. That is not to say that there is not the odd idiot and I have told a few to f**k off over the years, but some of my best friends are people that I originally met because they happened at some point to have been fans of some silly little rock and roll band that I was playing in! Obviously I don’t take punters’ opinions about music too seriously in the same way that I wouldn’t expect a guy who repairs vacuum cleaners to listen to me telling him how to do his job! They can only know what they like, so then why would you expect them to understand the mechanics of how music works? Christ, have you seen the opinions of some of the supposed musicians who post on here! However, a lot of punters will often correctly recognise a good band over a poor one even if they don’t really understand the reasons why – something a lot of people who play in bands sometimes fail to give them credit for…

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1406019214' post='2507474'] There is plenty of work for the very good ones... so many towns across europe will have 'Blues festivals' but what I am saying is that 3 guys and no show generally aren't it. [/quote] Three pieces do just fine at those gigs if they are good enough. An awful lot of SRV/ Rory fans over there (and over here)! As far as what bands draw at what venues is just market forces at work. There are lots of 30/40 something rock fans who grew up on live music who don't bother with clubs anymore. Their idea of a good night out is a few beers and watching a band in a pub, hence the popularity of 80s rock bands in boozers. Likewise people will always want to dance and sing along to Commitments type bands or pop music from their formative years...

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1406015648' post='2507428'] Be a musician - not a gear collector. Only copy others until you're competent enough not to - no heroes. Deal with mistakes , don't fear them. Remember that you can't break rules until you know them , but that rules are for the guidance of the wise and the obedience of the weak. Make sure that at every gig you do something to ensure the punters will remember you when they wake up next morning. Have other interests - life's too big to waste it all playing music. Play what you should , not what you can. When offered money to prostitute your artistry and compromise your values - always take it. When a landlord offers you free drinks - ask if you can come back tomorrow and have them then. Never pay too much respect your audience - if any at all. Don't join in this drummer or singer bashing nonsense - strive to play with good ones. Never play in Doncaster , in fact never go to Doncaster. If you can already play an instrument that allows you to have a rest mid song and stand around for a moment looking cool - stick with that !! [/quote] Apart for the disdain for the punters bit this is generally pretty good advice...

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1406014879' post='2507415'] A couple of things... no one will lose money playing a blues gig round here, it is popular..or the bands can work very cheap.. but apart from the gtr who has to be..and generally is, very good, he and the band can't make it interesting enough beyond 20 mins as he has done his beans on solos by then. Quite afew Gtrs have decent CV's... and it still counts for a boring gig, IMO. ... if only they added keys or SOMETHING.. There aren't bands like The Hamsters around.... [/quote] As you say, it is popular in your neck of the woods so there must be plenty of people who don't find it a boring gig, even if it is not to your taste! My main point is that it's nonsense to say that these type of bands will never get out of the pubs. You can play this type of music all over the world and there are loads of good gigs throughout Europe...

Local girl who is doing pretty well on the national blues circuit. I've known her since she first started playing guest spots at local gigs, when she was very young. Funnily enough I was once on the same bill as her in the Orkneys Islands, which was strange as she pretty much used to live around the corner...

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1405976581' post='2507228'] I get pretty pissed off that a 3 piece Blues bands turn up with a couple of amps..the gtr twiddles all night whilst the other two just do their thing...there is a nominal P.A which just about does the job and they walk away with £70 each...for playing crap blues ... Lights are things from another planet. So, yes minimum effort .... and you wont ever find them playing anything bar a pub.. No wonder..!! [/quote] Depends on how good they are mate… A couple of years ago I played in a trio that pretty much answers your description above and had a great time. We were constantly busy, playing blues clubs and quite a few main stages at festivals, etc all over the country (from the South east to the Orkneys) – not that many pubs in fact! The guitar player has another trio now playing clubs all over northern Europe. A pretty easy gig in that we had hardly any PA to lug around, the (few) rehearsals were easy with next to no harmony vocals to work out, etc. We just played our hearts out with no song every the same twice – real seat of the pants stuff but great fun! A three way split (along with loads of work) meant that we made a decent amount of cash, so what’s not to like? Of course there is no hiding place in a band like that so you have to be able to hack it. Obviously it all stands and falls on n the guitar player, who is usually the singer and whose name is generally on the door / posters! It also helps if they have the personality and the stagecraft to be a good front man as it is very much them who carries the show...