peteb

Good point - quite bizarre really

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1411908978' post='2563754'] I'll find a video in a minute that explains it really well. [/quote] I would love to see that video mate.

It is simply a major scale, running up from A to B to C...

I took an extra day to think about it and just missed out on a nice (if slightly roadworn) 2001 3EQ Stingray yesterday on eBay that went for £620...! That's a great price for a proper US built marque bass - stingrays have gotta be the best value on the (secondhand) market at the moment... NB. A lot of people are putting Rays up on eBay with high starting prices but they are just not selling. If you wait for the right one to come along you should get a really nice one for around £700, less if you're lucky and don't dither!

In that case I will do it for you…! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgAAee2rOb8 Brothers Groove at Newark Blues Festival in 2013 and we were the band following them. Really good band and Deano is an ace bass player. Me and the guitarist got our pedaltrain cases mixed up backstage and had to meet up at Bass Direct the week after to swap pedalboards back! Been in touch ever since, really nice blokes…!

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1410384203' post='2548962'] What music are you playing ? Pub music over here is an attraction in itself and 'my' beef is that there are too many unsuitable venues and bands. But once a pub has its catchment, then that will tend to support most bands that play there through the year. So a band that brings in a few plus the pubs regulars makes the gig likely sustainable. We've also found that pubs that mess with the rosta/rota and change nights around tend to lose out ... It doesn't take many bad nights at a venue to undo a lot of good ones. People round here tend to know which bands do what and are worth seeing..so it is a tough-ish market to break into, but once in, you'll do ok. [/quote] I would certainly agree with that!

'The Throwback' by Tom Sharpe immediately springs to mind...

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1410376222' post='2548809'] True, most bar level bands are not playing to crowds that came their to see them or live music which can be a drag. Off Topic, Sad , but when I see the 21-25 year old crowd come into a club/bar were playing or any where there is a live band, they usually leave.and I mean leave immediately Blue. [/quote] That is not generally the case over here in the UK and certainly not in mainland Europe...

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1410364027' post='2548593'] We are a 4 piece, we won't turn the car ignition on for less than $100.00 US green backs per man. Again, it's a little different in the US most bar/club gigs are 4 hours. Blue [/quote] But that is just under £250 - about the same or a little bit more than the standard pub gig fee for most places in Blighty for 2x45 min sets...!

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1410256946' post='2547496'] Of course it is.... but getting that quality in a pub is few and far between, IME. And I must say that the 3 piece gtr bands tend to have a handy gtr player, but still not good enough to maintain the interest over a long period of time in the set, IMO. And..it also depends how interesting the bass and drums can be, but you'll often find the gtr kingpin doesn't want anything too fancy from them... so it comes down to the gtr solo show... If the gtr can sing, then that is a bonus but not a given. From an economics POV, this can work for the gtr as they may easily get £70 per head, and if they work hard, and do a few lessons, sell CD's they may make some sort of living. The band leader/gtr may even take a bigger slice of the monies but it seems a pretty soul destroying gig IMO. And... I've done them but I want something more interesting and I do find them 'lacking' for sure. [/quote] The most soul destroying gig I can remember was a 5 piece playing Don't You Forget about Me to housewives dancing around their handbags, even if it was a good payer! In contrast, I played in just the type of three piece band that you are describing and it was great fun! We played lots of gigs to decent audiences all over the country and made a few quid. The gtr was a bit of a one trick pony, but it was a good trick and it helped that he was a natural entertainer (both on and off stage). We never played a song the same twice and songs would evolve the more we played them. We could turn on a musical sixpence in a way that bigger bands just can't do! It certainly sharpened up your playing as well...

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1410260556' post='2547531'] I think the number of band members can certainly be a factor when you are looking at prices. One of the bands I regularly work with does a few (6 or 7) pub/club dates a year and the price we ask for is based on x amount per man. If places want to put on an 8 piece professional band, they are generally prepared to pay more than they would to a 4 piece. [/quote] Why?? Surely their only concern is how many punters the band draw, not if they need eight musicians to achieve that or if they can manage with four! Strange way of doing business...

[quote name='phil.c60' timestamp='1410216334' post='2547320'] I'm not sure what knocking out endless cheesy covers at party or wedding gigs for admittedly what sounds like good money makes you in any way superior. Just pursuing your own ends, as is everyone else, whether that's money, fun or simply a need to get out there and perform to the best of your ability and hope people like it ( which is where I fit in...). [/quote] Of course there isn’t – different strokes for different folks, etc! What some people like JT don’t like is that the guitar player is very often pushed to the front in a three piece (but not always by any means) as there is no singer-frontman to share the limelight or a keys player to share solos and the tenor or high musical registers. They also don’t like that someone in a trio will make twice as much as those in a six piece playing the same gig and have less gear to cart around and probably need less rehearsal, etc! I like trios; both to play in and to listen to. There is definitely a knack to playing in a three piece – knowing where to create space and how to fill it when necessary. Not everybody can manage to pull that off…! I would also agree that I would much rather play to a crowd that have specifically come to listen to a particular band playing music (in a pub or elsewhere) rather than just be the entertainment at a party where you have to try and please everyone in the room, even though they may all have completely different musical tastes…

[quote name='silverfoxnik' timestamp='1410126575' post='2546475'] Just read this thread not knowing who Lincoln is, but he sounds like a really inspiring human being and obviously, a fine, fine bass player. Sad news indeed! [/quote] Same here - sounds like a great bloke...!

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1410211896' post='2547263'] The 3 piece bands aren't that good... all gtr solos and it takes a very very special player to make that interesting for anywhere near an hour, let alone 2 sets. Out of all the bands that do the dates around here, the gtr bands really focus on the gtr...the P.A is an after thought as are the vocals. Forget about lights as well, so all in all, no, they aren't worth their fee, IMO....but hey, they play blues, they must be cool And...they don't pull in the punters either, so I really don't know how they get gigs.. [/quote] They must be doing something right to keep getting the gigs! As far as the solos goes, that depends on the audience – some love that kinda thing, you don’t… Not all three pieces play blues – there are plenty of pop-rock trios around…

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1410103005' post='2546116'] A 3 piece that goes out for £150 grosses per man the same as a 5 pc £250 band, of course, but altho the 3 pieces round here might ask..and get £300... their justification is because the are full time...as if that is any justification in itself, and they are certainly not regarded as the best bands in musical terms. They seem to have had to drop their prices by and large and you can say that times are hard etc etc ... but mostly I'd say that that they have been found out. [/quote] I don’t see why you think it matters how many are in the band?? Punters just want to see an entertaining band – they couldn’t care less if it is a three piece or an eight piece, just as long as they are good! There is no reason why a landlord should pay a band with a full brass section, two keyboard players & a Latin rhythm section any more than a three piece, nor should he concern himself whether the band is full time or consists of semi-pros. The only thing he cares about is are they any good and more importantly, can they draw a crowd in his boozer (as you say in the first half of your post)! Talking about how many members are in the band just confuses matters and is completely irrelevant...

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1409841609' post='2543859'] peteb - I just looked at the 'Balls To The Wall' page and noticed Neil Saxton is in it. An old schoolmate of mine left at 16 (I stayed on for A levels) and one of his earliest jobs was working in the same place as Neil in Cleckheaton where we grew up, probably around the time he was getting Baby Tuckoo together. I did eventually see BT but not until mid 80's after I'd moved to Nottingham. Small world. [/quote] I first met Neil (or Sak as he is generally known around here) when Baby Tuckoo first started gigging about the time I started regularly going to pubs. They became the big local rock band, packing out the likes of the Vaults Bar in Bradford. When I got my first P bass, I lent it to their bass player (Smiggy) a couple of times when they had a bigger gig where an agent was supposed to come and see them! I'm guessing that you must be around my age and must know quite a few of my mates / ex girlfriends, etc who came from around Cleckheaton. Small world indeed!

[quote name='Adrenochrome' timestamp='1409746966' post='2542892'] +1 Agree with that, I'm mainly depping now apart from my acoustic side project. [/quote] Assuming that you are still local, there is a rock band looking for a dep on Saturday night (I have depped for them a couple of times before but unfortunately I can't make this one). Drop me a PM if you are interested and I will pass your details on to them (assuming that they are not already sorted)...

Remember the name from when I was a kid but never saw them. Looked at the clip and thought that the drummer (John Mylett) was a bit useful, despite seeming to have his rack toms set up ridiculously high! Unsurprisingly, a brief google search shows that he was linked to a number of top bands (including AC/DC, Iron Maiden and Marillion) and turned down the gig with Ozzy Osbourne. Unfortunately he was killed in a car crash on holiday in Ibiza in the early eighties. Apparently the Marillion song ‘Mylo’ on the Misplaced Childhood album was written about him…

One of my heroes and a big influence. The live album (Go For What You Know) is a good place to start if someone has never heard Mars / PT Band before. In terms of chops they must be one of the best rock & roll bands ever and Mars is a serious bass player - very underrated...

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1407177559' post='2518109'] From last weekend's gig with pianist Ivo Neame (from Phronesis). It is always a strange experience enjoying playing as well as you can and really getting that buzz whilst also knowing your not even close to the level of Jasper Holby or many of the other people your frontline players regularly play with. [/quote] Dude - you are just a little bit too self effacing! You are sharing a stage with these people and playing with guys who regularly work with them. That doesn't make you as good as them, but they obviously think that your contributions are far from worthless otherwise they wouldn't be playing with you...

Quite like this one from tonight's gig...

[quote name='MB1' timestamp='1406733055' post='2514185'] 'peteb' I would say that the best analogy is probably that playing a relic’d bass is like making love to a beautiful woman – who has had a boob job! You might prefer the idea of the real thing but when it actually comes down to it, does it really matter?? MB1. You are Swiss Toni and I claim my £50 [/quote] At least somebody got the reference! If it is a good bass and it looks ok (for whatever reason) does it really matter about what particular finish it has ; be it relic, natural, fancy 'expensive coffee table' type thing or a solid paint job? Things (and people for that matter) can be attractive for different reasons so why get hung up on it??

I know some pretty competent players who play that tune (and others) on a 5 string by detuning the E string. Obviously you can play it on a 5 string that way...

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1406659411' post='2513536'] No, as has been proved earlier in this thread it is perfectly possible (if a bit harder) to play it on a conventionally tuned 5-string bass. From my PoV if I was going to play a bass line like this that required a low D and it was too complex to play without using the open string I'd want an instrument strung with something more substantial than a standard E string detuned a tone. To my ears the open D in that example is so undefined as a note that any percussive bass sound could replace it. I only becomes defined because we've already heard the note in the octave higher guitar part, so the brain fills it in. What bothers me most about this, is that there appears to be a weird unwritten rule that states the bass should automatically match whatever tuning the guitarist is using, when a lot of the time there is no real need and often the fact that the two instruments can't easily double the parts could actually lead to some more interesting harmonic ideas. [/quote] No, a few people have said 'oh yes, I could play it on a 5 string' but I have yet to see anyone do so convincingly. The whole point of the arrangement is the contrast between the half time feel on the the chorus and intro and the main riff that kicks in and motors along. They may be able to play the notes but they will struggle to nail the feel of the song, what with the fingering stretches required and the slightly awkward dampening. And why should they when they could simple detune the E string by a step? There is no rule to say that the bass has to double the guitar, but equally there is no reason why it shouldn't if the song requires it. This particular song is written around a reasonably fast open string riff and it makes sense for the bass to fill out the bottom end by rumbling on below the guitars playing the riff an octave lower...

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1406656753' post='2513495'] Well on the evidence of that, the only time the riff has any real clarity is when the guitars do the same thing an octave higher To my ears the low D has been reduced to a rhythmic clank rather than a proper note. [/quote] The point is to play that part correctly you need the open drop D. You may have played that part differently if you had been on the original session, but then again you aren't a multi-platinum selling artist! Thanks to Juliet for posting the video - I have just been asked to do a dep on Saturday and this is one of the tunes that I will have to dust off, so very timely...