peteb

According to what some of my mates who work at a big PA company say, you need to be very careful with the genuine new SM57 / SM58s these days. They are no longer US made and the QC has gone right down with no consistency from mic to mic. They tend to use other brands now…

[quote name='tonybassplayer' timestamp='1401400806' post='2463386'] Yes he got them both up to sing some backing vocals and they did very well Is it Liz from Motus ? [/quote] Double post!

Cool - didn't know that she was singing! And yes, it is indeed Liz from Motus...

[quote name='tonybassplayer' timestamp='1401383314' post='2463100'] Long story short, my mate's 60th birthday treat last night from me and Debs was to see Francis Dunnery at the Wardrobe in Leeds. He's quite in to It Bites and she likes his solo stuff. I have never heard any of it but what a cracking gig. Brilliant songs played superbly with a wide variation and very entertaining banter in between with a great rapport with the audience Payed about £75 for three tickets and was the best value for money gig wise I think I have ever spent Not seen or heard of him ?? Go see him. A true talent and seems like a very nice bloke. Well recommended. [/quote] Not that I was there but it seems that my friend Liz ended up on stage with him! Dunno if he got her singing or not (she is quite a well known singer on the local circuit) [attachment=163883:liz -dunnery.jpg] PS. Liz is the blond on the right...

[quote name='Bassman Steve' timestamp='1400791552' post='2457144'] True, Tommy Bolin's solo albums have just brilliantly diverse music on them. Teaser, especially, is a superb album. [/quote] Absolutely, Teaser is easily in my top ten favourite albums! Inspired by this thread I have had Come Taste The Band playing in the car in the past week or so. Another really superb album, even though it is a bit different for DP in that its axis is more around Bolin-Hughes rather than the classic Blackmore-Lord one. The contrast between the Coverdale dominated blues rock / Free type tracks and the funk-soul influenced Hughes songs works brilliantly…

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1400759298' post='2456681'] Everyone I know who tried the tribute band route has failed to make any money at it (too much money spent on production, booking rehearsal rooms etc). Includes 2 Floyd acts tribute who subsequenlty split. Life's too short [/quote] To be fair, I have mates in a couple of tribute bands (Foo Fighters / U2) who do make a living from it. I have also played with a guy who used to lead a Floyd tribute that were massive and played all over the world!

[quote name='leroydiamond' timestamp='1400531789' post='2454774'] For m,e Blackmore was really unique, a total one off. Without him, Purple have never reached the dizzy heights that made them a truly great band. [/quote] I know where you are coming from but not sure that I totally agree - I really liked the DP album with Tommy Bolin...

I think that looks pretty cool - and that's speaking as someone who generally prefers old Fenders in sunburst and tort...!

Cheers Paul...

Can anyone point me towards a resource to give me an [color=black][s]idiot’s[/s][/color][color=black] [/color]beginner'’s guide to using Audacity, or alternatively give me any useful tips how to start using it?? Initially I am just trying to load songs from iTunes into Audacity then re-record the bass parts. I have already downloaded Audacity 2.0.5 and am using a laptop with Windows 7 o/s.

I hate the damn things - looks, sound and everything even though they have been used on some of my favourite records! A mate of mine has one, which must be one of the worst 'expensive' basses I've ever played... Marmite basses indeed...

JT's analysis above is about right but, as ever, he should remember that he lives in a pretty affluent part of the country. Decent pub gigs around here will pay £200 (smaller pubs may pay a little less)...

I think that we are going round in circles here. There will always be a market for live music but it will be difficult for the pub rock scene (and the pub trade in general) until any improvement in the economy starts to trickle down to working people. And you certainly can’t legislate to stop bands who really should not be playing in public getting gigs if they are prepared to do so for nothing and naïve landlords are prepared to book them…

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1397595226' post='2425581'] Probably not many compared to a semi-pro band, I played about 20 gigs last year across both bands and about 1/3rd of them in pubs. I recognise your scenarios and am sure it happens but my feeling is that is must surely be self-regulating. A really good band has nothing to fear and a really bad band will not last long. Yes, casual punters may walk into a pub if they hear live music and buy a pint, but they'll also soon leave if the band is no good. If enough people never come back then the pub will stop having bands - paid or not. [/quote] But the trouble is that the casual punter won’t come back. It all undermines the live music scene, making it less sustainable. A half way decent band will still do well locally but building up a following out of town these days is taking a lot more work. [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1397595226' post='2425581'] Again, I'm sure that's all correct but I suspect it's symptomatic of bigger things. The music business has changed immensely over recent decades and, as we've discussed many times, music is a much-devalued commodity these days. That's not to say that it's not important to people, more that they've become accustomed to not having to pay very much for it, while having more of it at their fingertips than they can actually listen to in their whole lifetime. PC recording technology and the internet has made it possible for bands to easily put out their music such that the world is now awash with music. Some might be crap but some is fantastic . . . but, hasn't that always been the way? [/quote] It is true that the (original) music scene has changed out of all recognition in the last twenty years – in some ways good but in many ways not so good! It is very difficult to make a living as a musician these days, even some of the people you may think of as reasonably successful are struggling! In contrast, the pub circuit has remained pretty much recognisable as it was ten years ago, but has just gone into a decline as people deal with lower standards of living and getting into the habit of staying in on a Saturday night with a pack of cheap beer and a DVD...

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1397590964' post='2425520'] Do you really think people are stupid enough to 'endure terrible performances'? And, as everyone keeps saying, if landlords are only interested in selling beer then they are hardly likely to allow a band to play if it drives away customers - paid or free. This all sounds like sour grapes to me. I can understand why bands that want to earn money with their playing get all upset about other bands that are happy to play for a few free drinks, but that's life. What next, shall we all get upset about how PC technology and the internet is allowing amateur bands to put out their own music, thereby 'undercutting the professionals'? Things might be tough for the aspiring professional musician but calls for increased regulation to restrict things just to give themselves a better chance is tantamount to admitting their own failure. [/quote] Do you play many pub gigs?? There are always punters who are not regular gig goers who will wander in off the street to see some live entertainment. If they see a good band that puts on a decent show they will probably come back for more next week. If the band is terrible they will make a point of not coming back! Landlords who know what they are doing will try and pick and choose their bands and obviously be prepared to pay. However, if you play the pub circuit you will have noticed that in the last ten years there has been an increase in landlords who really don’t know the pub trade at all, yet alone live entertainment (as pointed out by Skank above a while ago). These are the type who tend to be seduced by the idea of getting something for nothing and then will moan about bands emptying pubs! However, I quite agree that increasing regulation is unworkable and, frankly, a touch ridiculous…

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1397584697' post='2425435'] Well, I understand you are all for a free market and limited legislation ..and I broadly agree, but sometimes people take it too far... as the bankers did, and the MP's did, etc etc, so yes, sometimes you can't trust all people, all of the time. I mean, why have any sort of law, if that wasn't the case..?? In this case, IMO, the relaxing of the license law has lead to a bit of a mess and 'free' for all. and it doesn't benefit musicians..IMO..which is what we care about [/quote] I am not too sure that you can really equate the abuses of the banking sector wrecking the economy with too many cr*p bands playing in too many cr*p bars destabilising the pub rock market…! It’s the poor people that to pubs that put these type of bands on that I feel sorry for. Too many casual punters have had to endure terrible performances from bands that are not good enough to get paid. Hardly encourages them to support live music does it? However, the real reason that fees have not gone up in 15 years is because pubs are generally struggling. If they were full and making money, landlords would be paying more to compete for the best bands like they were 15 years ago…

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1397487525' post='2424390'] Fair point. There must be a better word for someone who won't get out of bed unless they're being paid. [/quote] "Professional"? Or maybe someone with a bit if pride who demands to be paid for providing a service that other parties are making money from??

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1397114793' post='2420688'] In my own personal experience individual musical ability doesn't necessarily mean that you can play competently as a band. I had a short stint as bassist in a covers band where everyone was at least competent and the two guitarists and singer were very good musicians, but as a band it never seemed to me to come together. The individual ability was there. The songs being covers were most definitely there, but the band performance was not. Certainly not in the same way that my originals band was tight, organised and able to play our way out of nearly any musical catastrophe at a gig, despite have a much lower standard overall of musical ability. [/quote] It is one thing to know a bit of theory and being able to play impressive stuff in your bedroom, but if you can’t play together with other musicians in a band then you are not what I would call a competent musician – or at least not in the context of popular beat combos so prevalent in the past 50 years or so! It could be that your originals band were better all round players than your more flashy covers band. You do not necessarily have to be a technically amazing player to play in a great band and you don’t need to be Jaco to play in AC/DC (insert other similar example of a band in a genre of your choice here)! You can be a good bass player by doing the simple things well, having a bit of feel and knowing how to lock in with a drummer (you still need to know what a f**kin scale is though)…

[quote name='BobVbass' timestamp='1397122022' post='2420800'] yes very true but then there's the "I wonder what x type of bass is like?" and you can never tell just by playing in a shop, so I'll buy one maybe like it and keep it (yeah ok rarely) or move it on when I know - doesn't stop me carrying on learning and gigging my Lakland P [/quote] But while you wondering what this new bass is like and spending time (& money of course) buying and then selling it, you could have been concentrating on improving as a player! You already have a perfectly good instrument that you need to do that, your Lakland...

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1397119925' post='2420762'] At the risk of sounding controversial (no, not you, Rob!), I think a lot of people think they can buy themselves better. If they don't like what is happening on one piece of kit, the assumption is that the solution is different kit rather than more practising. I know a guy who used to buy and sell guitars at an inordinate rate and spent the rest of his time adjusting actions, changing strings etc etc. The fundamental fact was that he was a mediocre guitarist who, had he sepodn more time practising instead of fiddling about on the periphery of guitar playing, could have been a lot better. Like Jake, my Wal (my only real working bass since then (a couple of other basses had less than a handful of outings in that time)) was bought in 1986, my double bass is now around 4 years old and isn't going anywhere soon. They both sound like basses to me and sound great. Even my amps last an age. I have had 7 since I started playing in 1980 and one of them was only replaced because it was nicked. I think there is too much nonsense attached to the gear and not enough emphasis on the music. [/quote] You are, of course, completely right! I would suggest that anyone wanting to become a musician should get the best quality instrument they can afford that suits their style of music, then learn how to play the thing! I think that it is a good idea to have a spare, but anything beyond that is just icing on the cake and can be an expensive distraction…

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1397111024' post='2420665'] you saying i should wear the wedding dress AND the tiara? [/quote] Definitely go with the tiara!

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1397079515' post='2420546'] Are you seriously equating knowledge of music theory to playing competence? Well I guess that would make it easy for venues to find 'quality' bands - just insist on seeing their grade certificates before booking them, along with their PAT certificates, liability insurance certificates, passports . . . . [/quote] No, you are completely misunderstanding me. I am not the slightest bit interested in the various credentials that you quote above and you certainly do not need to have passed graded musical exams to be a competent rock / pop musician (quite the opposite in some cases)! However, there are limits and if you don’t know what a scale is the chances are you are pretty cr*p…

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1397046629' post='2420050'] Thing is, Pete, you and a sizeable minority here are in 'proper' working pro or semi-pro bands. You've paid your dues and you can legitimately command a 'proper' fee. I suspect there are a greater number of hobbyists here (like myself) who are operating in an entirely different league. They probably play the venues you avoid. Some of these hobbyist bands expect to get paid the same money as you. Others do (inc myself) do not. [/quote] By the way, ‘You speak for yourself sunshine’ was supposed to be delivered in an Eric Morecambe voice and probably should have been accompanied by a smiley! You are right that there is an element of having paid dues. You can see that I think that there is a problem that some people here think that it doesn’t matter if they know what a simple scale is, yet are prepared to subject innocent punters performing at what can only be described as a gig! This does nothing to encourage said punters to regularly support local gigs in pubs. If you look at it from a Landlord’s perspective – to run a successful music pub you will generally have to put on live music every Friday and Saturday night every week of the year (maybe only Saturdays in January). You do that you would need a roster of maybe 25 to 40 decent bands (each playing 2 or 3 times a year), of which say 10 bands can be relied to pack the place and the rest will draw a sufficient crowd to ensure that you still make some money and tick over. But, of course, it is unlikely that there are going to be 25 local bands of that standard, not to mention that bands do break up or have to cancel for various reasons, etc! Therefore the landlord needs to widen his net and leave a few slots open for bands from outside the area to play. Obviously, the first time a non-local band play no one will know who they are and are unlikely to pack the place out. But, if the pub has a reputation for putting decent bands on there will be a hard core of regulars who will come on spec anyway. Hopefully the band will go down well with the regulars and they will start to build a following in that area and pull more next time they play there. Of course, this requires the landlord to do his homework to get the right bands and the bands to make the most of any positive feedback and to promote the next gig on social media, etc. Now, I might be interested in doing a pub gig 50 miles away (even it costs more in diesel / time to get there) if it potentially opens up a new market and helps to fill up the diary. But I am not prepared to do so for no money – I might as well take a more local gig or just go to the pub to see one of my mate’s bands play! Not to mention that if a landlord is not prepared to invest some money to discover a new band he probably won’t bother to promote the gig in any way! Of course, many landlords will take the easy option and book rubbish local bands who are prepared to play for nothing! These same landlords will be in their empty pub on a Saturday night, moaning that putting on live music is a waste of time and blaming the bands…

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1396972770' post='2419314'] Too many of us delude ourselves that we are semi-pros when in truth we are amateurs - that is - 'someone who does something for free because they like it'. At root, most of us are far more interested in playing in front of an audience than we are in delivering that audience. Why this insistence on getting paid if we neglect the business side of things? [/quote] You speak for yourself sunshine! However, you do have a point – there are plenty of bands out there who are incredibly amateurish and have no business playing in public! If they are prepared to play for free then they are putting a value on what is essentially a product they are providing in a commercial environment (i.e. playing a gig in a pub) and that value is NOTHING! Why should a landlord bother to take such a band seriously and promote their gig? Bear in mind that plenty of landlords are just as amateurish as the bands they book and find that the idea of a band who are prepared to play for nothing seems very attractive. Of course, after a few weeks of cr*p bands they wonder why they have an empty pub on gig nights and blame it on a lack of demand for live music! That is not to say that I will not occasionally play a gig at a loss where it seems like the gig will provide exposure for the band, or just because we fancy doing it. Therefore I could be a few quid out of pocket after diesel, a couple of pints and a Travelodge for the night but the point is that the promoter / organiser (these types of gigs tend not to be pubs) have had to put their hand in their pocket to pay the band (even if it doesn’t cover our expenses). Therefore they have an interest in promoting the event to ensure that it is a success in order to get their money back…!

Not sure that the pub rock scene is ready for too many Accept cover versions, even around here...!