peteb

When political correctness goes wrong...

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1373439810' post='2137506'] Thats a bit harsh. I just finished reading Bon Scotts biography and after Mark Evans was sacked , they brought Cliff Williams in because he was a better player.More technically minded and experienced. I think its just the music that calls for easy bass lines. At the end of the day, I would gladly thump out those lines to make as much dosh as them! [/quote] Not knocking AC/DC at all - one of the all time classic rock and roll bands! But, having played a few of their songs, the bass lines are very easy to play! Sometimes that's all that is needed...

Play in an AC/DC tribute band...

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1373192024' post='2134453'] Fender got a lot right but what he [i]really[/i] got right was to invent a way of making musical instruments on an assembly line. The method of production largely dictated the form. He made many good decisions (pickup placement was one of the best) but he was also lucky that the competition at the time missed a trick by not adapting their brands and adopting his manufacturing methods. I guess they're all on the assembly line method now but they gave Fender such a lead that he became uncatchable. [/quote] [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1373201079' post='2134590'] By debating all the good/bad points of fenders compared to other brands, this topic seems to missing the most important factor of all - iconic status. THAT is surely the reason that fenders are so popular? There are all sorts of iconic products - want a luxury motor car, then get a Rolls Royce. Want a good MP3 player, then get an iPod. Want a good watch, get a Rolex. Etc, etc. All iconic products have their good points and bad points and all have their competitors, many of which will be better in some respects than the icon in question. But none of them are the iconic products they aim to compete with. Yes, a Lexus is a fine motor car, but it's not a Rolls Royce. I'm sure Sony make some good MP3 players, but they are nowhere near as cool as an iPod. Omega make perfectly good watches, but they're not in the same league as an iconic Rolex. So If you want a bass then you can be sure that a Fender will not only do the job demanded of it - as proved by countless musicians over decades of live and recorded music - but you can also be confident that it will be widely accepted as the 'right' choice and will never be asked "what's that then?" when you open the case. Of course there will always be people who choose to avoid iconic products (and iconic music come to that) for all sorts of valid reasons, but they will never detract from Fender's iconic status. Indeed, they may help to enhance it. [/quote] I think that these two posts pretty much sum up (respectively) what Fender really did get right and the reason why a lot of top gigging players use Fenders...

[quote name='Raymondo' timestamp='1373232737' post='2135199'] Hopefully he's free of all that now Mr Machine.... should I tell him or will you? [/quote] Tell me what exactly? As I understand it, the dude has got AIDS. Not exactly a condition that can be cured by a doctor giving you a prescription, although these days it can be managed by drugs & a healthy lifestyle, etc... http://m.classicrockmagazine.com/news/andy-fraser-how-i-got-aids-and-how-i-survive/

[quote name='RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE' timestamp='1373209923' post='2134719'] Hopefully he's free of all that now [/quote] I'm afraid that you can never be free of AIDS - hopefully he is managing it as well as possible...

[quote name='Donnyboy' timestamp='1373195736' post='2134511'] Did Andy have to deny reports that he was dead a few years ago? [/quote] He was extremely ill at one point and still has serious health issues...

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1373019975' post='2132815'] No I've only done a couple of such things but in both cases the conversation with the engineer was "hey, you got a DI on your amp" "yes" "cheers". It beats me why anyone would prefer to take a raw instrument feed that needs EQing and compressing when they can just take the amp feed. Whatever next, are they going to take a midi out from the keyboard because they want them to all sound the same - it just defies all logic. [/quote] It just saves a bit of time and effort on their part as they will use the same EQ & compression as they did for the last bass player. If you are lucky, there are a some engineers doing these gigs who will ask if you want a post DI out of your amp but unfortunately not all by any means...

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1373015744' post='2132729'] your amp have a "post" DI ? if not then get one that does. Also try to get "your sound" such that is not overly dependent on your specific speaker cab (i.e. use one with a flat-ish response) because engineers don't like miking up bass due to it being more difficult to control bleed at low frequencies. -- edit -- Another option is buy yourself a DI box than take a signal directly from your amps speaker output e.g. [url="http://www.andertons.co.uk/pa-outboard/pid10282/cid624/img-stage-line-dib100-passive-di-box.asp?LGWCODE=10282;56375;2717&utm_source=googlebase&utm_term=241140&utm_medium=pricecomp&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping&gclid=CNfet4-FmLgCFYW23godwWoAFw"]http://www.andertons...CFYW23godwWoAFw[/url] [/quote] I am guessing that you probably have not played too many of these types of gigs? The problem is that many sound engineers that these gigs do not want to have to deal with loads of different bass sounds, not to mention varying quality amp DIs, so they will take a (pre) DI straight from the instrument. The better guys will be more confident of taking a post DI out of the back of your amp and quickly getting a better representation of your sound. If they can be bothered! Of course, they will ensure that the headline band will get their full attention and the best sound (both on & FOH) that they can achieve! But then again, presumably most of the punters have paid their money to see the band at the top of the bill…

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1372986586' post='2132591'] Thanks for the heads-up guys. I'm on the British Stage this year. I'll be on the look out for problems. [/quote] Who are you playing for? I'm playing on the trail on the Friday...

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1372981644' post='2132566'] You're lucky! I played The Great British R&B festival in Colne in 2012 and there was no bass! I played through the worlds quietest Ampeg SVT and 8x10 and couldn't hear a thing on stage. I listened to the other bands and the bass players could have been miming, because I couldn't hear a thing they were playing. We obtained a recording of our live set straight form the desk.....and you guessed it......no bass. The venue was a huge warehouse type thing which would have made it hard to get a good bass sound. But NO bass through the PA! The sound engineer must have been deaf. [/quote] I played the same festival (the British Stage, some sort of sports centre I believe) with what sounds like exactly the same rig! I am told it sounded great out front (bass and all) but we couldn't hear a f***in thing! The monitor engineer told us that he would sort out everything thru the foldback, but he just didn't bother! The trials and tribulations of being a support act on a multi band bill...

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1372969645' post='2132361'] No disrespect your mate but thats clearly bollocks since you often see major acts using them in televised events where multiple bands are doing short sets (e.g. live 8). [/quote] Well you obviously seem to know more than a guy who's earnt a lot of money working with some very big names! Out of interest, who on Live 8 was using a pod??

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1372944486' post='2131932'] Let's get this bit out the way first, ok? Digital modeling - Boss GT10B, POD XT/X3, and active DI's like SansAmp, Hartke VXL, etc, if used properly, can and do sound indistinguishable from an amp and cab rig in your FoH sound. You need to take this for granted if you don't believe me. I'll go one further and say the same is true for studio recordings but that's another story. The only advantage of using and amp and cab that I can work out from what people say on here is that it can make you trousers flap on stage, which to me is not a sensible reason at all. Most monitors are capable of pumping out some good bass for your reference. Quality digi modeling/effects units and active DIs offer (over amp and cab rigs) huge versatility and portability, consistent sound quality with most stage and room characteristics, reliability, simplicity of deployment, massive cost savings, less prone to damage, don't need to keep changing them in your quest for TONE, geezers in other bands never ask to borrow them for their set, you can't stand a pint on them .. Need I go on? It's beyond me why anyone would have the pain and worry of cab placement problems in auditoriums, needing gramma pads, transport issues, bad backs, lending them to other bands, very little versatility, easily damaged, buying and selling to find YOUR TONE, upsizing, downsizing, two rigs for different size gigs, getting them up and down narrow stairs ... So why do you REALLY insist on having amps and cabs? Fear of digital sound being unpredictable or sounding crap? Need a big old rig behind you to feel safe? Ignorance of going direct? Need a massive bass sound on stage? Can't be bothered to f*** about learning how to programme patches? Nostalgia? Inertia? ... I'm genuinely interested to know. [/quote] First of all – I am not a fan of any modeling units that I have come across, especially Pods. We could argue about this all night but when it comes down to it, you like them and I’m not keen. All I can say that a mate of mine (probably the best guitarist that I have played with) runs a pretty successful PA hire & installation company that supplies gear for major tours & events as well as installing AV kit for airports around Europe. He really knows his stuff and has made a very good living dealing with cutting edge pro audio gear on a daily basis. He uses a Mesa Boogie amp! When I asked him about his opinion of modeling amps he said that some sounded ok in a small room or on tape but they still haven’t made one that works with a band live on stage! Active DIs for bass is another thing entirely and some of them are very good. Some of the bigger gigs that I do are medium size festivals where there is a house rig that may be good or cr*p and will probably have a DI straight off the bass. If I start doing more of these gigs I would love to get a unit like a Tonebone, so that I can control what I hear on stage and what goes straight to FOH. However, if you are not using an amp on stage you are [b]very[/b] reliant on getting a decent monitor mix, which as we all know doesn’t always happen if you are not headlining! Another advantage of having a decent rig is of course that you can play pubs and smaller gigs without having to go thru the PA, leaving FOH to just take care of vocals & drums yet alone problems with not so great monitors you might find with a smaller PA at a pub gig. Of course, this is based on my experience i.e. playing with pretty loud drummers and only really using the one bass sound. I know that a pod is way more portable than even a small amp and it’s up to you if you decide if that is worth the compromise. I certainly would not want to do the gigs that I do without an amp on stage….

[color=#222222]Never really got into Porcupine Tree but figure that they may be worth a bit of effort! For a start their drummer is one of the best around and the whole band kinda intrigue me.[/color] [color=#222222][/color] [color=#222222]Can anyone suggest an album that would be a good place to start for someone new to PT??[/color]

[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1372750044' post='2129352'] Looks like a 13 year old... You find this attractive? [/quote] I think that Suzie Q may have been somewhere older than 13 when the picture was taken...

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1372713341' post='2129140'] I'd say that it was your choice of delivery then. I was always taught to be 'aware of your audience' when despatching thoughts and opinions. I'm not suggesting for one minute that you aren't allowed said, but being as this is a family forum that relies on the written word for tone in the absence of facial expression (or other 'real life' clues) as to what you are trying to suggest, your posts have been misinterpreted. Emoticons are useful for example [/quote] It is undeniable that, for a variety of reasons, girls only make up a small proportion of the people playing musical instruments in beat combos. Girls who do decide to follow this path, be they singers or bass players (and I know a few) or whatever, find themselves not only dealing with a rather masculine environment but also one that tends to attract a rather knockabout and not particularly politically correct sense of humour. IME the girls who prosper tend to be those who are happy to be ‘one of the boys’ and take all of this type of nonsense in their stride! One thing that does confuse me – I always assumed that this was a forum for musicians… or bass players at least! I imagine that most members either are, or aspire to be, gigging musicians. I don’t see how this makes BC a ‘family forum’? To be honest I never really thought that travelling 30 miles in a van to play rock music in some type of (often less than salubrious) licensed premises and getting back home at 3 o’clock in the morning was a particularly family orientated pursuit…

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1372711938' post='2129109'] One thing, though. Why is it that many male pop stars deliver such whiny, self-pitying lyrics whereas their female equivalents espouse sassiness and empowerment? Where are the roaring boys? [/quote]Well one theory might be that girls are the ones who are more interested in the words and that they are more likely to want to identify with empowered lyrics from strong female role models, but also want to hear lovelorn pleas from the heart from good looking alpha male pop / rock star boys to stir their romantic interests...!

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1372693737' post='2128686'] For some reason can't do paragraphs so excuse the block of text! [/quote]Yep I get that problem on BC for some reason - no idea why! Need to go and see ND if they ever make to Bradford / Halifax...

I think that I’m more interested in the music, but a good lyric is a definite plus! Depends a fair bit on the artist – you tend to be more bothered about the lyric to a Steely Dan song, whereas it doesn’t seem to be so important when you’re listening to Deep Purple! Sometimes a great line will make a song, even if the rest of the lyric is unremarkable. The same could be said about the arrangement, where a guitar phrase or even a single hit on the snare drum in just the right place sticks in the memory…

Welcome to the club mate...

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1372514909' post='2126673'] [/size] [size=4]At least Fender's top horns are largely balanced with the bottom ones. Some brands are not. For example, I find most Warwick basses' top horns aesthetically displeasing. They either look like a badly-designed wooden dog-dildo, or some kind of bizarre alien jug-teat. And the bottom horns are like some-weirdly stunted vestigial cetacean underflipper. IMHO, of course. [/size] [/quote] Aesthetically, I love both Fender and Warwick designs (well at least the Streamer) even thru they are completely different…

In my experience the main danger for theft is loading up the van / car at the end of the night and at multi band gigs at bigger venues where it is not always obvious what gear belongs to who and where people who shouldn’t be there can get access backstage! Fortunately I have never had anything major nicked but there has been the odd microphone and guitar / mic stand go missing…

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1372510142' post='2126603'] I told me that they all sounded real good. Who cares about the strings ya-de-ya-de-yada ..... them there basses sound like basses should. Proper. [/quote] But does this sound ‘proper’? [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6XbvvFOSS4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6XbvvFOSS4[/url] And if not, why not??

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1372500041' post='2126435'] You can like or (surely not) dislike Fender basses but Leo Fender's company not only blitzed the bass playing universe from day one, they did the same thing to guitar players. Most guitarists I see on TV and every guitarist I play with these days is either using a Strat or a Tele. Every last one I've played with in the last 20 years has used a Fender combo of one sort or another. The Rhodes is an iconic keyboard sound and with the Wurlitzer and Hammond pretty much defined keyboards until the synth came along. I understand exactly what the OP means. [/quote] I don't agree with the OP that you can't beat Fender, not least because I think that many companies these days do Fender better than Fender do e.g. Lakland, Lull, etc! However I have to agree with what you say about Leo's impact on music and electric musical instruments. At the blues festival I mentioned earlier, nearly every guitar player had a Fender Strat...

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1372440413' post='2125838'] cool... but why the need to mod? (honest question, I've had my main bass and modded quite a few things on it, but why buy a bass knowing you're going to mod it? why not just buy a different bass? [/quote] You’re kinda missing the point about the whole reason why I would buy a Fender i.e. to get more gigs because from my experience (and 51m0n’s – see post #117 above) bandleaders & sections of the blues audience prefer the image of a Fender. I am not totally immune from this myself of course and I have owned several Fenders in the past. I still have a very cool looking Fender Jazz Bass in lake placid blue, but as with every Fender I have ever owned I have put a far better bridge on as I have never liked the BBOT. I usually change the pick-ups and these days I prefer an active circuit. Actually, I think this is of the good things about Fenders – essentially they are good basic workhorses that you can easily mod to suit your own tastes and style…