peteb

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1413927685' post='2583830'] Sorry mate but that's a load of tosh. My girlfriends brother can't read music but is an absolutely amazing guitarist. He plays with really high standard musicians who all get annoyed at him because he just plays by ear. They have to study their parts and he just turns up and plugs in and away he goes. I, to a much lesser extent, do the same when I'm playing in my pub band. I think venues couldn't give a rats whether you can read music as long as you can make a nice noise! [/quote] The point is that there are plenty of incredible musicians who can’t read a note (Jeff Beck, Billy Sheehan, etc, etc). But unfortunately these guys never get to play the cruise ships! Of course if you do want those types of gigs you do need to be able to read. However, if I was to be a bit contentious, I would suggest that the best musicians who can read tend to be those who learnt to play first then learnt to read afterwards. IME some guys who learnt to play by reading tend not to develop their ear as well as those who did not start off by reading notation…

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1413534021' post='2579152'] I would be pissed off not getting the best slot if it was because of us that the whole thing worked as well as it did..i,e provide all the gear. I understand it is very hard to predict when that best slot will be on any given bill, but doubley galling that the other bands could not be bothered to support you the way you supported them. This is a common and ugly trait from a lot of muso's, I find. However, it wasn't as bad as it could have been, by the sound of it... but use this as a lesson not to get involved on those terms again. The first thing is to see what the rest of your band thought and then devise some sort of strategy about what YOU get out of it next time.. if you agree to a next time..!!! 1st rule..if you are a KEY part of the gig..then you get a KEY role/choice... [/quote] OR... you could take the view that the event is not about you but trying to raise a few quid for charity! It seems to me that this been organised by a girl with good intentions who has enlisted the help of a friend who plays in a band to make it happen. This friend has then recruited his band to help out. I don't see anything wrong with that and the rest of the band (with the exception of the OP) seem to have been happy to indulge a mate and help out. It makes sense to give the best slot to those acts that can pull the most people. If the OP's band were the biggest draw then more people would have stayed for their set. Of course it would have helped if the main bands had got into the spirit of the thing and hung around to show their support! Overall, it seems like the event was a success and the OP should be pleased that he contributed to this...

Just think of it in terms of having built up a store of psitive karma and you will get your rewards in heaven! More importantly, did the frontman get laid??

Unlike some people here, I am always happy to do charity gigs providing that: a) I think that it is a worthwhile cause; the event is not just going to be a cynical ploy by a landlord to sell lots of beer without having to pay the band; c) it is not going to be a complete shambles! Once you agree to do it you have to commit to doing the best for the charity. I would not be too bothered if we only ended playing ten minutes if the overall event was a success. In this case I would do it with good grace to humour the band leader, but take an absolute minimum of gear and make the point that if you do any similar gigs in the future then at least they must be properly organised…

[quote name='Kirky' timestamp='1413011720' post='2574045'] I play two venues where the management passes round a bucket for contributions which we get on top of the comparatively small fee. It's never occurred to me to do it ourselves at other venues. Perhaps we should try it tonight at our Bikers Clubroom gig - last time they passed a bucket round for collections for one of their members who had just been sent down for a stretch at Her Majesty's pleasure, so they're familiar with the concept... [/quote] Funnily enough, I remember a very similar thing happening at a gig I did at a biker clubhouse a couple of years ago…!

There are some gigs where a member of the bar staff will go around with a bucket a couple of times - generally smaller gigs that are not the best payers.

Good point - quite bizarre really

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1411908978' post='2563754'] I'll find a video in a minute that explains it really well. [/quote] I would love to see that video mate.

It is simply a major scale, running up from A to B to C...

I took an extra day to think about it and just missed out on a nice (if slightly roadworn) 2001 3EQ Stingray yesterday on eBay that went for £620...! That's a great price for a proper US built marque bass - stingrays have gotta be the best value on the (secondhand) market at the moment... NB. A lot of people are putting Rays up on eBay with high starting prices but they are just not selling. If you wait for the right one to come along you should get a really nice one for around £700, less if you're lucky and don't dither!

In that case I will do it for you…! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgAAee2rOb8 Brothers Groove at Newark Blues Festival in 2013 and we were the band following them. Really good band and Deano is an ace bass player. Me and the guitarist got our pedaltrain cases mixed up backstage and had to meet up at Bass Direct the week after to swap pedalboards back! Been in touch ever since, really nice blokes…!

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1410384203' post='2548962'] What music are you playing ? Pub music over here is an attraction in itself and 'my' beef is that there are too many unsuitable venues and bands. But once a pub has its catchment, then that will tend to support most bands that play there through the year. So a band that brings in a few plus the pubs regulars makes the gig likely sustainable. We've also found that pubs that mess with the rosta/rota and change nights around tend to lose out ... It doesn't take many bad nights at a venue to undo a lot of good ones. People round here tend to know which bands do what and are worth seeing..so it is a tough-ish market to break into, but once in, you'll do ok. [/quote] I would certainly agree with that!

'The Throwback' by Tom Sharpe immediately springs to mind...

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1410376222' post='2548809'] True, most bar level bands are not playing to crowds that came their to see them or live music which can be a drag. Off Topic, Sad , but when I see the 21-25 year old crowd come into a club/bar were playing or any where there is a live band, they usually leave.and I mean leave immediately Blue. [/quote] That is not generally the case over here in the UK and certainly not in mainland Europe...

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1410364027' post='2548593'] We are a 4 piece, we won't turn the car ignition on for less than $100.00 US green backs per man. Again, it's a little different in the US most bar/club gigs are 4 hours. Blue [/quote] But that is just under £250 - about the same or a little bit more than the standard pub gig fee for most places in Blighty for 2x45 min sets...!

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1410256946' post='2547496'] Of course it is.... but getting that quality in a pub is few and far between, IME. And I must say that the 3 piece gtr bands tend to have a handy gtr player, but still not good enough to maintain the interest over a long period of time in the set, IMO. And..it also depends how interesting the bass and drums can be, but you'll often find the gtr kingpin doesn't want anything too fancy from them... so it comes down to the gtr solo show... If the gtr can sing, then that is a bonus but not a given. From an economics POV, this can work for the gtr as they may easily get £70 per head, and if they work hard, and do a few lessons, sell CD's they may make some sort of living. The band leader/gtr may even take a bigger slice of the monies but it seems a pretty soul destroying gig IMO. And... I've done them but I want something more interesting and I do find them 'lacking' for sure. [/quote] The most soul destroying gig I can remember was a 5 piece playing Don't You Forget about Me to housewives dancing around their handbags, even if it was a good payer! In contrast, I played in just the type of three piece band that you are describing and it was great fun! We played lots of gigs to decent audiences all over the country and made a few quid. The gtr was a bit of a one trick pony, but it was a good trick and it helped that he was a natural entertainer (both on and off stage). We never played a song the same twice and songs would evolve the more we played them. We could turn on a musical sixpence in a way that bigger bands just can't do! It certainly sharpened up your playing as well...

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1410260556' post='2547531'] I think the number of band members can certainly be a factor when you are looking at prices. One of the bands I regularly work with does a few (6 or 7) pub/club dates a year and the price we ask for is based on x amount per man. If places want to put on an 8 piece professional band, they are generally prepared to pay more than they would to a 4 piece. [/quote] Why?? Surely their only concern is how many punters the band draw, not if they need eight musicians to achieve that or if they can manage with four! Strange way of doing business...

[quote name='phil.c60' timestamp='1410216334' post='2547320'] I'm not sure what knocking out endless cheesy covers at party or wedding gigs for admittedly what sounds like good money makes you in any way superior. Just pursuing your own ends, as is everyone else, whether that's money, fun or simply a need to get out there and perform to the best of your ability and hope people like it ( which is where I fit in...). [/quote] Of course there isn’t – different strokes for different folks, etc! What some people like JT don’t like is that the guitar player is very often pushed to the front in a three piece (but not always by any means) as there is no singer-frontman to share the limelight or a keys player to share solos and the tenor or high musical registers. They also don’t like that someone in a trio will make twice as much as those in a six piece playing the same gig and have less gear to cart around and probably need less rehearsal, etc! I like trios; both to play in and to listen to. There is definitely a knack to playing in a three piece – knowing where to create space and how to fill it when necessary. Not everybody can manage to pull that off…! I would also agree that I would much rather play to a crowd that have specifically come to listen to a particular band playing music (in a pub or elsewhere) rather than just be the entertainment at a party where you have to try and please everyone in the room, even though they may all have completely different musical tastes…

[quote name='silverfoxnik' timestamp='1410126575' post='2546475'] Just read this thread not knowing who Lincoln is, but he sounds like a really inspiring human being and obviously, a fine, fine bass player. Sad news indeed! [/quote] Same here - sounds like a great bloke...!

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1410211896' post='2547263'] The 3 piece bands aren't that good... all gtr solos and it takes a very very special player to make that interesting for anywhere near an hour, let alone 2 sets. Out of all the bands that do the dates around here, the gtr bands really focus on the gtr...the P.A is an after thought as are the vocals. Forget about lights as well, so all in all, no, they aren't worth their fee, IMO....but hey, they play blues, they must be cool And...they don't pull in the punters either, so I really don't know how they get gigs.. [/quote] They must be doing something right to keep getting the gigs! As far as the solos goes, that depends on the audience – some love that kinda thing, you don’t… Not all three pieces play blues – there are plenty of pop-rock trios around…

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1410103005' post='2546116'] A 3 piece that goes out for £150 grosses per man the same as a 5 pc £250 band, of course, but altho the 3 pieces round here might ask..and get £300... their justification is because the are full time...as if that is any justification in itself, and they are certainly not regarded as the best bands in musical terms. They seem to have had to drop their prices by and large and you can say that times are hard etc etc ... but mostly I'd say that that they have been found out. [/quote] I don’t see why you think it matters how many are in the band?? Punters just want to see an entertaining band – they couldn’t care less if it is a three piece or an eight piece, just as long as they are good! There is no reason why a landlord should pay a band with a full brass section, two keyboard players & a Latin rhythm section any more than a three piece, nor should he concern himself whether the band is full time or consists of semi-pros. The only thing he cares about is are they any good and more importantly, can they draw a crowd in his boozer (as you say in the first half of your post)! Talking about how many members are in the band just confuses matters and is completely irrelevant...

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1409841609' post='2543859'] peteb - I just looked at the 'Balls To The Wall' page and noticed Neil Saxton is in it. An old schoolmate of mine left at 16 (I stayed on for A levels) and one of his earliest jobs was working in the same place as Neil in Cleckheaton where we grew up, probably around the time he was getting Baby Tuckoo together. I did eventually see BT but not until mid 80's after I'd moved to Nottingham. Small world. [/quote] I first met Neil (or Sak as he is generally known around here) when Baby Tuckoo first started gigging about the time I started regularly going to pubs. They became the big local rock band, packing out the likes of the Vaults Bar in Bradford. When I got my first P bass, I lent it to their bass player (Smiggy) a couple of times when they had a bigger gig where an agent was supposed to come and see them! I'm guessing that you must be around my age and must know quite a few of my mates / ex girlfriends, etc who came from around Cleckheaton. Small world indeed!

[quote name='Adrenochrome' timestamp='1409746966' post='2542892'] +1 Agree with that, I'm mainly depping now apart from my acoustic side project. [/quote] Assuming that you are still local, there is a rock band looking for a dep on Saturday night (I have depped for them a couple of times before but unfortunately I can't make this one). Drop me a PM if you are interested and I will pass your details on to them (assuming that they are not already sorted)...

Remember the name from when I was a kid but never saw them. Looked at the clip and thought that the drummer (John Mylett) was a bit useful, despite seeming to have his rack toms set up ridiculously high! Unsurprisingly, a brief google search shows that he was linked to a number of top bands (including AC/DC, Iron Maiden and Marillion) and turned down the gig with Ozzy Osbourne. Unfortunately he was killed in a car crash on holiday in Ibiza in the early eighties. Apparently the Marillion song ‘Mylo’ on the Misplaced Childhood album was written about him…

One of my heroes and a big influence. The live album (Go For What You Know) is a good place to start if someone has never heard Mars / PT Band before. In terms of chops they must be one of the best rock & roll bands ever and Mars is a serious bass player - very underrated...