peteb

People seem to have a different relationship with making music - some have a need to be part of a creative process while others just want to play! I sometimes wish that I could go back in time and have a word with my younger self, who was gigging exclusively in bands playing original material. I would tell him to join a covers band in addition to the originals – I would have played a lot more gigs at a younger age, had a lot of fun and become a better player quicker…

To be fair, most punters are great! Some places just seem to attract knuckleheads but most established music pubs generally attract a regular audience who like music and just want to enjoy themselves - which is fine by me! When you get to the niche markets like the blues crowds I often play to, they have a passion that sometimes that veres on nerd teroritry, but they are appreciative and really want to enjoy the music, so that again is cool with me. People seem to have a different relationship with making music - some have a need to be part of a creative process writing their own music while some want to be appreciated for their craft for the right reasons. For myself, I'm just a bass player - people ring me up and ask me to join bands / play gigs. If I think that it will be any good, be enjoyable and I'm available then it goes in the diary! I try to take criticism and praise alike with a large pinch of salt, although I must admit that i can't help myself being overly pleased if another musician whom I have any respect for gives me even the faintest props...

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1363684845' post='2015622'] It's just not been my experience , Pete. Simple as that. I know when I've played and sung well and I know when I haven't. My 'experience' as a player may well have helped me cover for myself to an extent when I'm having a bad night but it changes nothing really. In the early days my ego used to enjoy being told how wonderful I am but I started to notice that I was told that even on bad nights. Either as an individual or as a band punter comments have not been in line with the quality of performance. I'm told we're bad when we're good - I'm told I'm good when I'm bad. It's regular and consistent. Other than it being down to the sort of places I normally play what other conclusion would you have me draw ? I note your comment that if a punter enjoys themselves then it's fine - and I have no right to expect them to be musically clued up - but as a musician I can't help the fact that I have no respect for punters opinions. Maybe my stage persona does - it allows me to be polite and grateful to those who pay my wages - but when I get home I just think 'w***ers'. Sorry if that bothers you , and I may have more faces than the town hall clock - but it's just an honest expression of how I feel and - as I said - I think it will be that that eventually retires me from gigging. [/quote] It doesn't bother me as such, I'm just amazed that you let things like that bother you [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1363685048' post='2015627'] + a lot. NEVER disrespect your audience. [/quote] NEVER is a strong word - there are several audiences that I have extreme disrespect for! I'm just surprised that it is such a common occurance for Dave...

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1363679273' post='2015541'] One day I'll stop gigging all together - most likely for one of two reasons. I may start and feel too old and tired - or even too ill - to give it the energy I like to , that's one reason. I think it more likely, though, that my utter disrespect of the punters in front of me (along with my cynical distrust....more like hatred... of landlords and small time wannabe promoters) will finally get too much. I care not if anyone says I'm crap - water off a duck's back , and besides I know I'm a good craftsman - but I despise being told how brilliant I am by folk who wouldn't know a decent tune from a kick in the pods. It sucks the joy away for me. I often wonder why I gig at all when I feel so strongly about this - but somehow 'Dr Dave' is an alter ego that takes on a differring persona when he leaves the house with a bass in his hand and sees the gig as 'feeding time' for himself. [/quote] I must admit that I find that difficult to understand from someone with your experience. There is no reason why any member of the audience should have any higher appreciation of music - the only thing expert opinion that they may have is in what they like. If anyone in the audience feel moved to comment favourably on what I do, then I thank them kindly without taking it too seriously - at least that is one person who has been entertained for whatever reason!

[quote name='bagsieblue' timestamp='1363638094' post='2015172'] Reading this got me thinking: http://basschat.co.uk/topic/202671-why-do-we-gig/ Started playing bass at 14 (I'm 35 now), played in (original) bands from age 16-22. Some good bands in the early and middle days, in my later gigging days too many abandoned projects, timewasters etc. As I'm sure a lot on here will have experienced - Some of the best times of my life have been related to being in and around playing in bands and some of the worst times of my life have been related to being playing in bands. I barely touched a bass from ages 23-33 but in the last couple of years have started to practice as much as is practical with a full time job and a young family. Sometimes I think I really want to get back into a band, sometimes I don't know if I do!! I do like practicing, learning and challenging myself at home. I've had a look at a few bands and they've had a look at me but nothing has sparked my interest. To spark my interest the band would ideally need to be playing originals, all musicians be of a good standard and trying to do something a little different than the usual middle of the road material. I suppose I'd rather be in no band than in a not very good band playing to small, unappreciative audiences, landlords/promoters trying to play games. I wouldn't say I wanted to get back into it for the money but being a little older and wiser I would not accept being taken advantage of and being consistently out of pocket for late nights lumping gear about to backstreet empty pubs. So maybe I'm just not good enough to be in the standard of band that (I think) I want to be in? Any input welcome.... Anybody else in the same situation?. [/quote] I am afraid that you may be a little too demanding in what you are looking for in a band and a slight change in outlook might help. I stopped playing in original bands in my late 20s and started gigging in covers bands at your age. It was a revelation! No one was trying to 'make it' anymore, all the pressure was off, everyone's egos are kept under check and we were all playing just for the fun of playing. Oh, and I started making reasonable money out of playing as well, which went in my pocket rather than being reinvested in the band! I still knew good players from my originals days and all of the covers bands I have played in have been pretty decent (some very good indeed). Opportunities for playing originals to decent audiences (xilldix & BRX being the obvious exceptions) tend not to be too plentiful as you get a bit older, but after years, but over the past few years I have found myself playing in bands playing original material (well as original as blues rock gets) and doing gigs all over the country again. IME the people still gigging as they get older tend to be those who actually love playing for its own sake. Certainly I have had more fun in the latter part of my playing 'career' than the earlier 'original' dominated phase...

Nooooo! Loop, DON'T FOLD...

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1363543680' post='2013896'] There's a guitarist near me that uses a digital modelling pre-amp which was seriously expensive. Every time I hear it I know almost immediately that it's modelled and not the 'real thing'. Always sounds over-processed and lacking in the natural warmth and zing of a good valve guitar amp. Maybe it's just the way he's programmed it though [/quote] [color=#222222]The best guitar player that I know is also a pro sound engineer, runs a company that does sound for big events and the occasional tour as well as installations for airports, clubs, hotels, etc.[/color] [color=#222222][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][/color] [color=#222222]He uses state of the art digital amps for a variety of applications but when I asked him whether he would use one as a guitar amp he said that while they can sound good in a bedroom, they are ‘unconvincing’ in a live situation…[/color] [color=#222222][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][/color] [color=#222222]Some people here may strongly disagree, but he is as near an expert in this field that I know![/color]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1363513941' post='2013425'] Superb. H&O wrote and played some seriously good music. I saw them live in the 80s and they blew me away. T Bone Wolk was just one of the best, GE Smith insanely brilliant on guitar. As a slight aside, this is a pretty damned good cover of Sara Smile by Richie Kotzen [url="http://youtu.be/xk5H95iw-5g"]http://youtu.be/xk5H95iw-5g[/url] [/quote] Now if you are talking about people who are seriously talented, Richie Kotzen is at the top of the list! Awesome musician...

Billy Sheehan, Les Claypool, Linus from Hollywood, Uriah Duffy, Chuck Wright, Roscoe Beck, Paul Turner, Leland Sklar - and that's just a few of the (mainly) rock guys! Too many to mention really...

This clip was posted on here recently and I looked on the interweb to see what the bass player (Klyde Jones) was using. I found a sound engineer forum where a guy posted saying that he had worked on the show and had DI'd the bass using a Tonebone DI pedal. If I remember correctly, Jones is using a GK MB & 410 for backline.

DLR era Van Halen were (along with Led Zep) my favourite band. The early albums still make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up when I haven't heard them for a while! However, I'll pass on this tour. This version of VH smacks of desperation these days and I would rather remember them when they were truly great!

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1362612617' post='2002325'] Should they be? [/quote] No reason why they have to be - there is pop music and there is pop music! Your example of Def Leppard is a good one as they kinda crossed over. They went from writing hard rock songs based on riffs and a chorus to writing songs often just based on a simple hook and production techniques, for example 'Pour Some Sugar On Me'. As a result they hit the big time in a big way, but I would say that approach to songwriting is a long way from the Foo Fighters or most other rock bands! That isn't a value judgement, a good record is a good record no matter how it is conceived ...

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1362609951' post='2002257'] Pop is not just X Factor you know. Foo Fighters is pop, Ellie Goulding is pop, Beyonce is pop .. [/quote] I take your point but I am not sure in songwriting terms that they are all the same. I don't think that the way that Dave Grohl approaches writing a song for the Foo Fighters is necessarily the same as the guy who writes Beyonce's material...

[quote name='Earbrass' timestamp='1362529352' post='2001042'] A lot of it is inevitably about promotion - and having the contacts and influence to plant stories in the press and elsewhere, get the right people to talk about it in the currently favoured media, and generate the required "buzz". Same as in the movie bizz. There will always be the unexpected outsider that grabs the public mood and bucks the trend, for whatever reason (Crazy frog?), but the big payers will always have the advantage. When it comes to understanding what makes mass sales, focusing on the quality of the songwriting, production, performance etc is missing more than half of the picture. [/quote] Good post and very true, especially in this country - witness the charts dominated by X Factor dross, etc. Possibly less so in the US?? It is quite possible that the OP would turn his hand to writing a potential mega hit, but would he be able to place it with the right artist or production team? I would imagine that it is quite a difficult scene to break into and requires more than just talent. It is no surprise that the OMD guy used his knowledge & contacts in the business to create a naff pop act that made lots of money. He was in a position to do so but would the OP be, regardless of how well crafted his potential hit songs might be??

[quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1362527878' post='2001021'] I think most chart stuff is to cash up and relies more on the promotion than the skill of songwriting , find a formula, promote the bejesus out it and nail its hat on. lyrics and tune follow the promotion and sycophancy of the providers of airtime/press/reviews etc. I think a lot of people could write a hit tune, whether they have the influence to make it a hit is a completely different story. [/quote] [quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1362528997' post='2001038'] No idea about jazz Nige, but Stock , Aitken and Waterman had a factory making hits , was it the quality of the material or the selling of it that really counted ? [/quote] Actually, I agree with you to quite a large extent but you must admit that a lot of the big American Rn'B hits are very well crafted pieces of music, whether you like them or not...

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1362511846' post='2000588'] Shame about your singer biting the big one mate [/quote] For a moment I thought that you meant that Robert Hart had just died! [color=#222222]Writing a hit song these days often seems to about writing a hook and then letting the production carry the record. Take a good pop song like 'Moves Like Jagger' - a simple musical idea with a good lyric and the rest is all production, complete with a cameo from another famous singer. It is a good record, but there isn’t room for Todd Rundgren like songwriting chops![/color] [color=#222222][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][/color] [color=#222222]Also, if you look at another couple of really good big hits I’ve heard recently; ‘Crazy’ and ‘Somebody That I Used To Know’ – both great tunes but slightly familiar without sounding like any other song in particular …[/color]

[quote name='Badass' timestamp='1362502556' post='2000309'] Thanks for the info [b]Peteb[/b] [/quote] You're welcome mate - but bear in mind that I did find this out on an internet forum, so please don't take it as gospel...! Sounded ace whatever it was...

[quote name='Badass' timestamp='1362471588' post='2000069'] Great groove. Thanks for the heads up. Anyone know what bass head this guy is using? [/quote] It's a Gallien-Krueger head of some sort. I saw something on a sound engineer forum where the guy who recorded it said that he plugged the bass into a Tonebone DI box...

I can't find too much wrong with Cee Lo Green's singing, in fact the whole clip was f'**in ace! Anyone know who the bass player is??

Personally I would remind the agent that you have an informal, non exclusive arrangement and as such you are going to do the gig but are happy to continue to accept suitable work from him. However, if he won't book you for gigs where you have played before you will approach the venue directly and offer to play at a substantially reduced (one off) fee! Also remind him that not only do landlords talk to each other, but so do bands... If he has any sense he will start trying to keep his bands onside or risk being cut out all together...

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1361793617' post='1990808'] There's certainly something about keyboard players! Maybe I've been unlucky too, but in my experience keyboard players are a right royal pain in the arse! Sweeping statement I know - and apologies to any keyboard players reading - but really. [/quote] [color=#222222]Dunno about being a "royal pain in the arse", but most of the good keys players I know tend to be somewhat ... eccentric to say the least...![/color] [color=#222222][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][/color] [color=#222222]No problems with them playing out of time though …[/color]

[color=#222222]Seems to have got his wardrobe and general sartorial elegance from Jeff Berlin![/color]

The main stage is - I think that we may squeeze you into the Dolphin...!

While we're off topic - Malmsteen may well be the best guitar player I have ever heard, absolutely stunning! He has also made some of the worst music i have ever heard as well...

Cool - we're staying overnight in Margate Say hello if you manage to get there ...