peteb

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1364582499' post='2028544'] This thread should be retitled "justify why you are in a covers band" [/quote] That's exactly what this thread is about, but why?? I'm mot in a covers band at the moment. I'm playing in a band doing originals and standards to a niche market up and down the country. It's great but we only play about 20 gigs a year and I'm lucky if we break even! I'm in be process of putting a local covers band together with some mates just to have some fun and make a bit of beer / holiday money...!

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1364327536' post='2024992'] we don't slavishly copy an original note for note. What would be the point in that? [/quote] Because you can learn a lot by learning exactly how a great song (or bassline) is put together! Also, it can be great fun...

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1364496562' post='2027364'] He believes we were brought to this earth billions of years ago by the leader of The Galactic Confederacy, so I'd dispute you there. [/quote] Well there is that of course... To be fair, you could drive a bus thru any religious belief - doesn't stop plenty of good and otherwise intelligent people having faith...

Billy Sheehan talking about writing original material, playing in a covers band and becoming a better bass player (first 3 minutes of the video) - very relevant to this thread: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yglAuOceEPo[/media] As ever. Billy is bang on the money...

This is pretty cool [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FHXNN7daO4&playnext=1&list=PLFC461BC88FEC7BE0&feature=results_video"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FHXNN7daO4&playnext=1&list=PLFC461BC88FEC7BE0&feature=results_video[/url] Or a more conventional ensemble piece [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zhpF8wOARc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zhpF8wOARc[/url]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1363968110' post='2020321'] yep, agree... and he was the one that Cowell kicked off his boot camp. Tells you all you need to know about that little racket. [/quote] Surely you are not suggesting that they get rid of anyone who is too talented and may detract attention from the judges??

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1364343711' post='2025321'] Questioning one's self is a part of being an artist. Growth is a matter of addressing the flaws but not letting them overcome you. As far as the final outcome, that is perspective and that's always in flux. [/quote] This... To be a good musician you need an ego the size of a small planet to drive you to be as good as you can be, yet you are inevitably led to doubt whether you are as good as you would like to think you are! I'm afraid that insecurity is the natural state for any artist or musician, which is why we get so affected by criticism or indeed praise...

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1364341119' post='2025281'] Also - Bass Central will negotiate heavily on price. Don't believe their list prices! [/quote] That is useful to know!

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1364176376' post='2022884'] Submission No1 Zappa's Zoot Allures, the massively neglected Scott Thunes on bass. He deserves study, a real romantic bassist, his note choices are beautiful, his phrasing, his timing ... [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUhRBq8UiL0[/media] [/quote] [color=#222222]That brings back memories![/color] [color=#222222]I believe that is from the 'Does Humour Belong In Music' video - I used to have it on VHS but it disappeared several house moves, not to mention several years ago. It was often the essential viewing on many nights when we got back from the pub[/color][color=#222222]...[/color] [color=#222222]Scott Thunes is undoubtedly a very good bass player, but that's a given for anyone in Zappa's band - Chad Wackerman is hardly a slouch on drums either! [/color] [color=#222222]Personally, I don't see Thunes as a phenomenal talent like Steve Vai or Terry Bozzio, to use obvious examples of Zappa alumni. I think that possibly some people see his rather challenging personality as some sign of unrecognised genius, whereas many who actually played him regarded him as a bit of a sociopath who was the reason for the demise of one of the greatest bands ever![/color]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1364230791' post='2023546'] Covers, I have decided, can be a soul destroying exercise. I thought I'd give it a go this week. Turn up for an 'audition', only got asked to learn two songs, not difficult. AND GUESS WHAT?!!? That's right, I was the only one who'd learnt them. Don't why I waste my freakin' time!!! AND, the supposed originals band I joined are mutating into a covers band. BUT, a lazy covers band where you guess what the chord progression is, because you can't be bothered to learn the songs, maybe sing 2 of the 4 verses, chuck in a chorus, if you remember, and then spend most of the 10mins you're playing the song to allow the guitarist to use it as an excuse to fret w***. And the songs they choose, how dull!!! [/quote] If you're playing with a band full of muppets, it doesn't matter if they're play covers or original material...!

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1363946682' post='2019856'] I keep on reading here about there being less venues available for bands to play, but in reality I'm simply not seeing it. Maybe it's a covers band thing? [/quote] IME the problem seems to be that established pub gigs close down as the landlord is struggling to make live music pay. In their place there are many other pubs starting putting bands on, generally because they are struggling and desperate for anything that will get people in. Often they are totally unsuitable as a venue and the landlord is clueless about how to promote live music or what is required to put on bands on. The offshoot of this can be the emergence of music pubs that can't attract a crowd, expect to pay bands peanuts (thereby getting bands who can't get gigs elsewhere) and the punters who do go to these places being put of going to see live music in pubs...

I got up with a band a while ago and they handed me a Ibanez Soundgear bass - very light with a extremely low action. They sound good, well made and you could probably pick one up s/h - may be worth checking out Beyond that, perhaps you might have a lesson with a good teacher just to check that your technique isn't causing you any problems. For a start it sounds like you are wearing the bass too high, which can cause problems with elbows, back, wrist, etc. Also, you really should go and see a doctor and sort out the cyst in your wrist! Also, hitting the gym and concentrating on exercises to [color=#222222]strengthen your core muscles will do wonders for your back (helped me a lot)...[/color]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1363775037' post='2017258'] That's just it, isn't it? Sorry to say, most people can't tell the difference between their arses and a hole in the ground. And what's worse is they don't want to know, either. [/cynic] [/quote] [color=#222222]I don't necessarily agree – there are plenty of plenty of gigs where the audience can tell the difference between a good band and a cr*p one! [/color] [color=#222222]A good band will get a good appreciative reaction whereas a poor ones will die on its ar*se…[/color] [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1363779423' post='2017379'] I've got one of these on Saturday! But , those bastards will get 110% from us whether they react or not. We get a lot of gigs from people who have seen us play. A long time ago , I was in a very good band whose attitude was, "We don't need to bother if the audience doesn't". I had a lot of arguments about this. My line was always, "If you don't want to play for the audience play for [u]me[/u]". A mate of mine has a mental picture of the Albert Hall in front of him every time he plays. And plays like he's there. I play like Clapton’s in the audience, and he's looking for a bass player. Silly mind games but if your body's at the Dog and Duck and your mind's playing the Live Aid main stage you've got to be giving a good performance. [/quote] Even with the worse audience, there are bound to be someone who will appreciate what you do and become a fan if you put in a good performance. So you play the gig for that person...

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1363797552' post='2017841'] Professional musicians aren't being mentioned much - what about them ? Most , I imagine , play whatever pays the bills - using their particular skills to enhance a project whether they love the music or not. Maybe they get asked to do an album of covers - what are they supposed to say 'I don't do covers , it's beneath me' ? [/quote] This is my understanding as well...

People seem to have a different relationship with making music - some have a need to be part of a creative process while others just want to play! I sometimes wish that I could go back in time and have a word with my younger self, who was gigging exclusively in bands playing original material. I would tell him to join a covers band in addition to the originals – I would have played a lot more gigs at a younger age, had a lot of fun and become a better player quicker…

To be fair, most punters are great! Some places just seem to attract knuckleheads but most established music pubs generally attract a regular audience who like music and just want to enjoy themselves - which is fine by me! When you get to the niche markets like the blues crowds I often play to, they have a passion that sometimes that veres on nerd teroritry, but they are appreciative and really want to enjoy the music, so that again is cool with me. People seem to have a different relationship with making music - some have a need to be part of a creative process writing their own music while some want to be appreciated for their craft for the right reasons. For myself, I'm just a bass player - people ring me up and ask me to join bands / play gigs. If I think that it will be any good, be enjoyable and I'm available then it goes in the diary! I try to take criticism and praise alike with a large pinch of salt, although I must admit that i can't help myself being overly pleased if another musician whom I have any respect for gives me even the faintest props...

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1363684845' post='2015622'] It's just not been my experience , Pete. Simple as that. I know when I've played and sung well and I know when I haven't. My 'experience' as a player may well have helped me cover for myself to an extent when I'm having a bad night but it changes nothing really. In the early days my ego used to enjoy being told how wonderful I am but I started to notice that I was told that even on bad nights. Either as an individual or as a band punter comments have not been in line with the quality of performance. I'm told we're bad when we're good - I'm told I'm good when I'm bad. It's regular and consistent. Other than it being down to the sort of places I normally play what other conclusion would you have me draw ? I note your comment that if a punter enjoys themselves then it's fine - and I have no right to expect them to be musically clued up - but as a musician I can't help the fact that I have no respect for punters opinions. Maybe my stage persona does - it allows me to be polite and grateful to those who pay my wages - but when I get home I just think 'w***ers'. Sorry if that bothers you , and I may have more faces than the town hall clock - but it's just an honest expression of how I feel and - as I said - I think it will be that that eventually retires me from gigging. [/quote] It doesn't bother me as such, I'm just amazed that you let things like that bother you [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1363685048' post='2015627'] + a lot. NEVER disrespect your audience. [/quote] NEVER is a strong word - there are several audiences that I have extreme disrespect for! I'm just surprised that it is such a common occurance for Dave...

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1363679273' post='2015541'] One day I'll stop gigging all together - most likely for one of two reasons. I may start and feel too old and tired - or even too ill - to give it the energy I like to , that's one reason. I think it more likely, though, that my utter disrespect of the punters in front of me (along with my cynical distrust....more like hatred... of landlords and small time wannabe promoters) will finally get too much. I care not if anyone says I'm crap - water off a duck's back , and besides I know I'm a good craftsman - but I despise being told how brilliant I am by folk who wouldn't know a decent tune from a kick in the pods. It sucks the joy away for me. I often wonder why I gig at all when I feel so strongly about this - but somehow 'Dr Dave' is an alter ego that takes on a differring persona when he leaves the house with a bass in his hand and sees the gig as 'feeding time' for himself. [/quote] I must admit that I find that difficult to understand from someone with your experience. There is no reason why any member of the audience should have any higher appreciation of music - the only thing expert opinion that they may have is in what they like. If anyone in the audience feel moved to comment favourably on what I do, then I thank them kindly without taking it too seriously - at least that is one person who has been entertained for whatever reason!

[quote name='bagsieblue' timestamp='1363638094' post='2015172'] Reading this got me thinking: http://basschat.co.uk/topic/202671-why-do-we-gig/ Started playing bass at 14 (I'm 35 now), played in (original) bands from age 16-22. Some good bands in the early and middle days, in my later gigging days too many abandoned projects, timewasters etc. As I'm sure a lot on here will have experienced - Some of the best times of my life have been related to being in and around playing in bands and some of the worst times of my life have been related to being playing in bands. I barely touched a bass from ages 23-33 but in the last couple of years have started to practice as much as is practical with a full time job and a young family. Sometimes I think I really want to get back into a band, sometimes I don't know if I do!! I do like practicing, learning and challenging myself at home. I've had a look at a few bands and they've had a look at me but nothing has sparked my interest. To spark my interest the band would ideally need to be playing originals, all musicians be of a good standard and trying to do something a little different than the usual middle of the road material. I suppose I'd rather be in no band than in a not very good band playing to small, unappreciative audiences, landlords/promoters trying to play games. I wouldn't say I wanted to get back into it for the money but being a little older and wiser I would not accept being taken advantage of and being consistently out of pocket for late nights lumping gear about to backstreet empty pubs. So maybe I'm just not good enough to be in the standard of band that (I think) I want to be in? Any input welcome.... Anybody else in the same situation?. [/quote] I am afraid that you may be a little too demanding in what you are looking for in a band and a slight change in outlook might help. I stopped playing in original bands in my late 20s and started gigging in covers bands at your age. It was a revelation! No one was trying to 'make it' anymore, all the pressure was off, everyone's egos are kept under check and we were all playing just for the fun of playing. Oh, and I started making reasonable money out of playing as well, which went in my pocket rather than being reinvested in the band! I still knew good players from my originals days and all of the covers bands I have played in have been pretty decent (some very good indeed). Opportunities for playing originals to decent audiences (xilldix & BRX being the obvious exceptions) tend not to be too plentiful as you get a bit older, but after years, but over the past few years I have found myself playing in bands playing original material (well as original as blues rock gets) and doing gigs all over the country again. IME the people still gigging as they get older tend to be those who actually love playing for its own sake. Certainly I have had more fun in the latter part of my playing 'career' than the earlier 'original' dominated phase...

Nooooo! Loop, DON'T FOLD...

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1363543680' post='2013896'] There's a guitarist near me that uses a digital modelling pre-amp which was seriously expensive. Every time I hear it I know almost immediately that it's modelled and not the 'real thing'. Always sounds over-processed and lacking in the natural warmth and zing of a good valve guitar amp. Maybe it's just the way he's programmed it though [/quote] [color=#222222]The best guitar player that I know is also a pro sound engineer, runs a company that does sound for big events and the occasional tour as well as installations for airports, clubs, hotels, etc.[/color] [color=#222222][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][/color] [color=#222222]He uses state of the art digital amps for a variety of applications but when I asked him whether he would use one as a guitar amp he said that while they can sound good in a bedroom, they are ‘unconvincing’ in a live situation…[/color] [color=#222222][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][/color] [color=#222222]Some people here may strongly disagree, but he is as near an expert in this field that I know![/color]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1363513941' post='2013425'] Superb. H&O wrote and played some seriously good music. I saw them live in the 80s and they blew me away. T Bone Wolk was just one of the best, GE Smith insanely brilliant on guitar. As a slight aside, this is a pretty damned good cover of Sara Smile by Richie Kotzen [url="http://youtu.be/xk5H95iw-5g"]http://youtu.be/xk5H95iw-5g[/url] [/quote] Now if you are talking about people who are seriously talented, Richie Kotzen is at the top of the list! Awesome musician...

Billy Sheehan, Les Claypool, Linus from Hollywood, Uriah Duffy, Chuck Wright, Roscoe Beck, Paul Turner, Leland Sklar - and that's just a few of the (mainly) rock guys! Too many to mention really...

This clip was posted on here recently and I looked on the interweb to see what the bass player (Klyde Jones) was using. I found a sound engineer forum where a guy posted saying that he had worked on the show and had DI'd the bass using a Tonebone DI pedal. If I remember correctly, Jones is using a GK MB & 410 for backline.

DLR era Van Halen were (along with Led Zep) my favourite band. The early albums still make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up when I haven't heard them for a while! However, I'll pass on this tour. This version of VH smacks of desperation these days and I would rather remember them when they were truly great!