peteb

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1362612617' post='2002325'] Should they be? [/quote] No reason why they have to be - there is pop music and there is pop music! Your example of Def Leppard is a good one as they kinda crossed over. They went from writing hard rock songs based on riffs and a chorus to writing songs often just based on a simple hook and production techniques, for example 'Pour Some Sugar On Me'. As a result they hit the big time in a big way, but I would say that approach to songwriting is a long way from the Foo Fighters or most other rock bands! That isn't a value judgement, a good record is a good record no matter how it is conceived ...

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1362609951' post='2002257'] Pop is not just X Factor you know. Foo Fighters is pop, Ellie Goulding is pop, Beyonce is pop .. [/quote] I take your point but I am not sure in songwriting terms that they are all the same. I don't think that the way that Dave Grohl approaches writing a song for the Foo Fighters is necessarily the same as the guy who writes Beyonce's material...

[quote name='Earbrass' timestamp='1362529352' post='2001042'] A lot of it is inevitably about promotion - and having the contacts and influence to plant stories in the press and elsewhere, get the right people to talk about it in the currently favoured media, and generate the required "buzz". Same as in the movie bizz. There will always be the unexpected outsider that grabs the public mood and bucks the trend, for whatever reason (Crazy frog?), but the big payers will always have the advantage. When it comes to understanding what makes mass sales, focusing on the quality of the songwriting, production, performance etc is missing more than half of the picture. [/quote] Good post and very true, especially in this country - witness the charts dominated by X Factor dross, etc. Possibly less so in the US?? It is quite possible that the OP would turn his hand to writing a potential mega hit, but would he be able to place it with the right artist or production team? I would imagine that it is quite a difficult scene to break into and requires more than just talent. It is no surprise that the OMD guy used his knowledge & contacts in the business to create a naff pop act that made lots of money. He was in a position to do so but would the OP be, regardless of how well crafted his potential hit songs might be??

[quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1362527878' post='2001021'] I think most chart stuff is to cash up and relies more on the promotion than the skill of songwriting , find a formula, promote the bejesus out it and nail its hat on. lyrics and tune follow the promotion and sycophancy of the providers of airtime/press/reviews etc. I think a lot of people could write a hit tune, whether they have the influence to make it a hit is a completely different story. [/quote] [quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1362528997' post='2001038'] No idea about jazz Nige, but Stock , Aitken and Waterman had a factory making hits , was it the quality of the material or the selling of it that really counted ? [/quote] Actually, I agree with you to quite a large extent but you must admit that a lot of the big American Rn'B hits are very well crafted pieces of music, whether you like them or not...

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1362511846' post='2000588'] Shame about your singer biting the big one mate [/quote] For a moment I thought that you meant that Robert Hart had just died! [color=#222222]Writing a hit song these days often seems to about writing a hook and then letting the production carry the record. Take a good pop song like 'Moves Like Jagger' - a simple musical idea with a good lyric and the rest is all production, complete with a cameo from another famous singer. It is a good record, but there isn’t room for Todd Rundgren like songwriting chops![/color] [color=#222222][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][/color] [color=#222222]Also, if you look at another couple of really good big hits I’ve heard recently; ‘Crazy’ and ‘Somebody That I Used To Know’ – both great tunes but slightly familiar without sounding like any other song in particular …[/color]

[quote name='Badass' timestamp='1362502556' post='2000309'] Thanks for the info [b]Peteb[/b] [/quote] You're welcome mate - but bear in mind that I did find this out on an internet forum, so please don't take it as gospel...! Sounded ace whatever it was...

[quote name='Badass' timestamp='1362471588' post='2000069'] Great groove. Thanks for the heads up. Anyone know what bass head this guy is using? [/quote] It's a Gallien-Krueger head of some sort. I saw something on a sound engineer forum where the guy who recorded it said that he plugged the bass into a Tonebone DI box...

I can't find too much wrong with Cee Lo Green's singing, in fact the whole clip was f'**in ace! Anyone know who the bass player is??

Personally I would remind the agent that you have an informal, non exclusive arrangement and as such you are going to do the gig but are happy to continue to accept suitable work from him. However, if he won't book you for gigs where you have played before you will approach the venue directly and offer to play at a substantially reduced (one off) fee! Also remind him that not only do landlords talk to each other, but so do bands... If he has any sense he will start trying to keep his bands onside or risk being cut out all together...

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1361793617' post='1990808'] There's certainly something about keyboard players! Maybe I've been unlucky too, but in my experience keyboard players are a right royal pain in the arse! Sweeping statement I know - and apologies to any keyboard players reading - but really. [/quote] [color=#222222]Dunno about being a "royal pain in the arse", but most of the good keys players I know tend to be somewhat ... eccentric to say the least...![/color] [color=#222222][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][/color] [color=#222222]No problems with them playing out of time though …[/color]

[color=#222222]Seems to have got his wardrobe and general sartorial elegance from Jeff Berlin![/color]

The main stage is - I think that we may squeeze you into the Dolphin...!

While we're off topic - Malmsteen may well be the best guitar player I have ever heard, absolutely stunning! He has also made some of the worst music i have ever heard as well...

Cool - we're staying overnight in Margate Say hello if you manage to get there ...

Following our recent well received gig at the Skegness Rock & Blues weekend, I will be playing with Rhythm Zoo at the Broadstairs Blues Bash this weekend on the lovely Kentish coastline ([url="http://www.broadstairsbluesbash.com/home.html"]http://www.broadstairsbluesbash.com/home.html[/url])! We are playing at the Dolphin on Saturday at 6.00pm. Come and say hi if you are around …

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1361309701' post='1984464'] I don't think any of them are short of a bob or two. The O2 gig proved to me that they've still got it. [/quote] Absolutely! LZ are probably my favourite band and I never got to see them live, so obviously it’s appealing from my point of view. As you say, the O2 gig suggested that they could still pull it off if they have a mind to. Whether some people want to sneer and say that they are not relevant is pretty much beside the point, but even if it wasn’t, there are still plenty of new bands coming thru with an obvious Zep influence so they can’t be completely irrelevant can they? The thing is do they want to play out again and show that they can still do it or are they more concerned about protecting their ‘legacy’??

[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1361151761' post='1982024'] I've not played one of those stale, smoke smelling basses in years now. Thank God. But I do recall when 'for sale' adverts made a point of noting that a bass hadn't been played in a smoky environment. It may be harder to get a gig these days, but it's far more pleasant doing do because you're not having to smell that muck when you're playing. [/quote] I think that you have a different outlook to playing (and life) to me - some of the most memorable nights, not to mention gigs, of my life have been in smoky, sweaty dives...

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1361125464' post='1981453'] At the level the Terrortones are currently at (a band with our first single out on an independent record label) the audiences and opportunities seem far better than they were for any similar level band I played in or went to see gig, any time in the 80s or 90s. We are getting enough worthwhile gig offers to be playing at least once a week, and these are all gigs that at the very least will cover all our expenses. It may of course be the fact that all my previous bands were crap and weren't worthy of the attention my current band is getting, but I can't remember there ever being so many opportunities as there are right now. [/quote] Cool - seems like you're bucking the trend and have got the right band at the right time!

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1361123233' post='1981395'] I assume we're talking about the audience for covers bands here? Because form where I'm stood playing original music the audience has never been bigger and there seems to be more and more places play every time I look. [/quote] Are you trying to say that the audience for original music is bigger than in the 80s and early 90s?? That is certainly not the impression I get from people I know who are still out there doing original material ... A bit better if you are in a niche in the market and can travel for the right gigs. The pub / covers curcuit is far from dead - if you get a decent band at a decent venue you can still have plenty of good nights! However, it is undeniably not as healthy as, say, ten years ago. Too many crap venues and too many crap bands out there all chasing an audience that is declining for various reasons (recession, smoking ban, etc) ...

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1361119305' post='1981314'] ... the music scene is struggling because people are struggling ... I don't think more venues chasing the dwindling music audiences helps either.... [/quote] I would agree with both of those statements - the smoking ban has had a negative effect as well...!

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1360891029' post='1978126'] I guess you missed the Howard Goodall documentary posted earlier by Fat Rich - you should take a look. It goes a little way to explaining [b]why[/b] they were rated so highly "based purely on their musical output". [/quote] Perhaps I will, but do i really need to? Maybe it is worth a look but these has never been a shortage of academics, not to mention classical orchestras, ready to exploit the hype of the Beatles to bring attention to their own work or to illustrate musical theory to the masses. I'm sure that he may well have grown up with a love of the Beatles like you and so many others. However I haven't seen it so this is speculation. No one is denying that the Fabs wrote songs with unusual song structures but were they the greatest songwriters ever or merely doing the equivalent of a Btec in music theory & composition with George Martin as the tutor?? MacCartney's later attempt at classical music was hardly stellar was it?

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360884255' post='1978040'] You Sir, are so spot on it's incredible! ("FBO" is the printers term) You should write a book. [/quote] I thought that I just did (almost)!!

You lot still here?? This is (hopefully) my last contribution to this epic saga on why the Beatles became a national treasure and the biggest pop group of all time, but may be ever so slightly over-rated (of course, based purely on their musical output)! First of all we have to set the scene…. it’s the early sixties and on this side of the Atlantic there is an economic boom following post war austerity, angry young men abound and sex is in the process of being invented. Hoards of new beat combos (some from the north of England) emerge from the skiffle craze, influenced by the American rock n’roll sounds from the fifties, all competing to be top of the hit parade. The winners of this particular race are four lovable scousers, all cute haircuts and suits, quite good looking with a cheeky sense of humour and displaying the new found confidence of working class Brits! In short, perfect to sell to the new market of teenage girls who see can all see at least one of them as ideal boyfriend material! But what makes them different from the Bay City Rollers of ten years later? Well, they do have some talent and they even write their own songs, unheard of at the time (but don’t tell Chuck Berry or all the other American artists of the previous decade). Then they go across to America and storm it, filling the vacuum left by Elvis when he abandoned his rebellious beginnings to join the army and become an all-round family entertainer. This momentum takes them to being the biggest ever act to come out of the emerging pop music market – they sell shiploads of records, play to hundreds of thousands of screaming teenage girls, break all existing records and generally create dozens of fascinating factoids that will be quoted in internet forums nearly 50 years later! By this time they are not only the poster boys of teenagers into pop music but also at the forefront of the emerging psychedelic and hippy movements. Then they stop playing live! They are encouraged to spend all of their time in a state of the art studio with a top producer who happens to be a highly trained musician. Every record they release goes straight to number 1 to great critical acclaim, generating humongous amounts of cash! They are encouraged to be as creative as they can be, to experiment with different musical forms and even be self-indulgent. As long as they keep churning out records they can do whatever they like! Remember at this time, pop and rock music is still relatively new and everything they (and others) create sounds fresh and is treading new ground! So John Lennon can muck around with ideas with lots of major chord changes whilst shouting I am the Walrus and people look for hidden meanings for an insight into his genius! Macca can try out his new found Tin Pan Alley songwriting chops and people whose musical tastes were formed before rock and roll can find something to like and the Beatles are their favourite group as well! They write all sorts of songs across all genres: some great, some good, some not so good and some bloody awful! Everything they did sold without them having to tour and anyway, they had more money than they could ever want anyway. No other band has ever been in that position before or since. I would suggest that there have been better songwriters, but they have had to write to a particular audience and hope to crossover to other markets and then tour for years if they wanted to sell lots of records. The Beatles have become part of the pop DNA and their music has been very influential, but has it been really that more influential than Muddy Waters, Chuck Berry, Elvis, the Stones, Tamla Motown, the Beach Boys, Hendrix, Led Zep & the Who, etc?? I would suggest that important as they were, their music alone was not as remarkable as their huge cultural and social significance as the flag carriers of the most influential decade of the post war era……

Most of the girls I know who gig regularly tend to have partners who are musicians and often end up playing in bands with them! It can cause problems but usually it works out alright so why worry. Tal Wilkenfeld seems to do ok playing with Vinnie Colaiuta.....

[quote name='Urban Bassman' timestamp='1360669566' post='1974167'] I'd vote for the Nash 63P. Would love to have a go on one of those. [/quote] I have a Nash 63JB, which is a very nice bass....